[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Kyriakos]

I think that even if the riots go on - which is unlikely if the army gets sent in - nothing will change in the end. Or rather the only possible change will be a guilty sentence for the cop, which surely is good for anyone caring for the person killed, but otherwise not very important. Such police brutality won't stop in the US, cause apparently the police culture there is that police lives>>>>>>>>>>>>citizen lives, and one has to wonder why you would become a policeman if you are so easily panicked/in fear of your life. Be a fast-food dish-washer instead.

 

[red_elk]

With this, I doubt they have a chance to achieve anything.

I wonder if Putin has already been blamed in organizing, or we have to wait a day or two...

 

[Estebonrober]

With this, I doubt they have a chance to achieve anything.

I wonder if Putin has already been blamed in organizing, or we have to wait a day or two...

It came up pretty fast. I’m sure his Twitter soldiers have no issue capitalizing on the moment but I do not believe he is responsible.

 

[Birdjaguar]

One of the perils of a democratic society is that the good, bad and ugly side of things can be made public quickly.

 

[El_Machinae]

I'm sure you can guess.

I don't know. I don't know what strategy to recommend when any specific protest is being fueled by outside agitators, and when this trend is going to be mimicked, if successful.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't know. I don't know what strategy to recommend when any specific protest is being fueled by outside agitators, and when this trend is going to be mimicked, if successful.

Current world "outside agitator" becomes sort of hard to define. Are cops in the Minneapolis PD so distinct from cops in the Milwaukee PD that this murder in Minneapolis has no impact in Milwaukee? Should citizens in Milwaukee be protesting against the criminal justice system by marching in their own streets or by taking a reasonably short road trip? Or should everybody be expected to take a long road trip for a million man march on Washington?

 

[Tristan_C]

right wing militias

vigilantes and racists

white supremacist groups

By all means keep this desperate narrative shift up

What do we do about these white supremacists?

If you remain complacent, they'll probably steal a starwars lego set in your area, too

 

[Gorbles]

Tristan's solved it, folks. One image of looting allegedly pertaining to current events (hard to tell given the complete lack of sourcing) and any other bad faith actors in these protests apparently just don't exist. What a tour de force.

EDIT

In more constructive news, it turns out the Minneapolis police do not have a good track record in dealing with complaints.

And before someone chimes in with the inevitable "but how do we know any of these misdemeanors deserve more of a punishment", a) 12 out of 2,600 is a shockingly low disciplinary rate regardless of the actual punishments carried out and b) Chauvin himself has been involved with two other deaths during his time on the force . That one's paywalled (ish), so here are the salient bits:

The former Minneapolis police officer charged with murder in the death of George Floyd shot one suspect, was involved in the fatal shooting of another, and received at least 17 complaints during his nearly two decades with the department, according to police records and archived news reports.

... snipped for length ...

Complaints against police can range from relatively benign issues such as showing up late for duty to severe offenses such as using excessive force. Ronal Serpas, a former head of police in New Orleans, Nashville and Washington state, said it was difficult to draw conclusions about Chauvin’s complaint file without more information but noted that 17 appeared to be higher than average.

“It’s a little unusual to have essentially one a year for 19 years,” Serpas told The Washington Post. “That’s a concern even if he was late every time. It would certainly catch my attention.”

 

[rah]

Current world "outside agitator" becomes sort of hard to define. Are cops in the Minneapolis PD so distinct from cops in the Milwaukee PD that this murder in Minneapolis has no impact in Milwaukee? Should citizens in Milwaukee be protesting against the criminal justice system by marching in their own streets or by taking a reasonably short road trip? Or should everybody be expected to take a long road trip for a million man march on Washington?

My definition would be if they were paid to protest. But yeah, the definition is not always clear.

 

[Gorbles]

Another tweet with video evidence of protestors involved in the earlier demonstrations asking people breaking windows to stop.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

My definition would be if they were paid to protest. But yeah, the definition is not always clear.

Even if they are "paid to protest..."

I get paid to attend political events and serve as "clandestine security." If the official security takes out an intentionally disruptive attendee (who may well also be being paid to attend) it reflects badly on the candidate, so I provide clear justification for removing the disruptive influence (incidentally getting myself removed in the process). The fact that I am paid to be there doesn't mean that I don't support the candidate.

So if somebody says "man these cops need to get their stuff together...if I could afford to drive down to LA I'd be down there raisin' hell" and someone else coughs up some gas and lunch money is that person a "paid protester"?

 

[red_elk]

I get paid to attend political events and serve as "clandestine security." If the official security takes out an intentionally disruptive attendee (who may well also be being paid to attend) it reflects badly on the candidate, so I provide clear justification for removing the disruptive influence (incidentally getting myself removed in the process). The fact that I am paid to be there doesn't mean that I don't support the candidate.

You are paid for the job you do, not just for attending.

So if somebody says "man these cops need to get their stuff together...if I could afford to drive down to LA I'd be down there raisin' hell" and someone else coughs up some gas and lunch money is that person a "paid protester"?

As far as I understand, it's something like you get on the bus, gather at specific place, being given what to hold and what to shout.

 

[rah]

So if somebody says "man these cops need to get their stuff together...if I could afford to drive down to LA I'd be down there raisin' hell" and someone else coughs up some gas and lunch money is that person a "paid protester"?

That is border line but I'd say no. I if said if someone could chip in 50 Bucks I'd be there in a second, I might think otherwise.

 

[zxcvbob]

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/27/21271811/george-floyd-protests-minneapolis-lockdown-protests

Floyd’s death has spurred massive outcry over the police’s excessive use of force during his arrest and the long pattern of police violence that’s resulted in the killing of black men. In Minnesota alone, there have been multiple incidents in recent years that have raised national attention, including the shooting of Philando Castile, who was killed by a police officer during a traffic stop in 2016.

Well its been catching fire for a few weeks and it finally boiled over even under a red president. The images are awful and I must say I support the protesters. The men should be charged with at least 2nd degree murder.

Under MN law, 3rd degree murder is what fits. "Depraved indifference" 25 years maximum sentence. If they charge too high, he'll walk like in the Freddie Gray case.

What I want is for the feds to charge him under 18 USC section 242. There are no limits on the penalty for that; no maximum for the fine, and no maximum for prison sentence, it even allows the death penalty. It does not require premeditation, just just requires "willfullness". Prosecute it as a death penalty case and cops everywhere will take notice.

I would support the protesters if I could find any. (and I think there are some but they're being overshadowed by rioters) I think Prez Trump was right in the tweet he's catching so much flak for, but Mayor Richard Daley said it better. "Shoot to maim looters, shoot to kill arsonists" I get the anger, but why steal televisions and expensive tennis shoes, rob liquor stores, and burn down an auto parts store? Those businesses had nothing to do with the murder (I'll call it murder, we can bicker about the degree) They did torch a police station; that one kinda makes sense.

 

[zxcvbob]

 

[Ajidica]

Under MN law, 3rd degree murder is what fits. "Depraved indifference" 25 years maximum sentence. If they charge too high, he'll walk like in the Freddie Gray case.

FWIW, under Minnesota law the prosecution can 'nest' charges, so that if the jury happens to find murder3 was not met, they can consider if manslaughter1 is met.

 

[zxcvbob]

FWIW, under Minnesota law the prosecution can 'nest' charges, so that if the jury happens to find murder3 was not met, they can consider if manslaughter1 is met.

That's how they charged the cop with the knee. I don't think the other 3 have been arrested yet but they're working on it.

 

[red_elk]

This is getting ugly

 

[Lexicus]

I would support the protesters if I could find any. (and I think there are some but they're being overshadowed by rioters) I think Prez Trump was right in the tweet he's catching so much flak for, but Mayor Richard Daley said it better. "Shoot to maim looters, shoot to kill arsonists" I get the anger, but why steal televisions and expensive tennis shoes, rob liquor stores, and burn down an auto parts store? Those businesses had nothing to do with the murder (I'll call it murder, we can bicker about the degree) They did torch a police station; that one kinda makes sense.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You are paid for the job you do, not just for attending.


As far as I understand, it's something like you get on the bus, gather at specific place, being given what to hold and what to shout.

Even that. I think protesting is good. I think in my case the county offices where the Sheriff holds meetings with his minions and plots the demise of law and justice...oh, wait, that's the previous sheriff, and the one before that...this one is the one who ran on reforming the department back to normal after the last one reformed the department after the one before went to federal prison. I dunno if electing sheriff's really works...

Where was I?

Oh, yeah, for me to protest in a place that actually makes sense to protest I have to drive fifty miles and find a place to park, which is two really big challenges. But if someone got a bus together I bet I could fill it just in my neighborhood.