[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Synobun]

Oh, yeah, for me to protest in a place that actually makes sense to protest I have to drive fifty miles and find a place to park, which is two really big challenges. But if someone got a bus together I bet I could fill it just in my neighborhood.

That's alright. People can read your book to learn more about parking cars in good places.

 

[Berzerker]

You might have a different opinion if you spent decades building a business that got torched

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You might have a different opinion if you spent decades building a business that got torched

By and large when a business "gets torched" the most likely suspect is usually the owner. I find it pretty interesting how when some sort of protest is happening a whole bunch of people jump up lamenting for the poor business owners as if that were suddenly not true.

 

[red_elk]

And about provocateurs:

Oh, yeah, for me to protest in a place that actually makes sense to protest I have to drive fifty miles and find a place to park, which is two really big challenges. But if someone got a bus together I bet I could fill it just in my neighborhood.

I guess it depends on whether you pay money in order to fill the bus. And if you do, where money come from.

 

[rah]

The protesters in Chicago are getting violent. Just watched them breaking the windows of a bank and rushing it.
The building my daughter lives in is surrounded and no one is getting in or out.
They're goading the police as much as possible throwing stuff an them and attempting to charge their positions. I see more people getting injured in the future.

 

[zxcvbob]

I thought you'd like Richard Daley. (and I should have been more specific, Richard J Daley) He was a Democrat. He ran the politcal machine in Chicago from the mid 1950's until his death in the 70's. I think the shoot to maim/kill order was during the Long Hot Summer riots in 1967, and Chicago did not see anywhere near the level of destruction that Detroit did. Maybe that's why.

But Daley also gave us the "police riot" in 1968, so there is that.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I guess it depends on whether you pay money in order to fill the bus. And if you do, where money come from.

If somebody paid for the bus does that make the people in the bus paid protesters? "Going to protest" would be a fifty dollar expense for me. If someone just covered the cost I'd be more inclined to do it. If someone covered the cost and paid for my lunch I'd be even more inclined to do it. Neither of those things is going to make me go cheer at a Trump rally.

The only defining line for me on "paid protesters" is if they are protesting in direct conflict with their own beliefs just for the money, and frankly given the consequences of being somewhere that a riot could jump off I doubt anyone is willing to pay enough to account for them being there if they are not in line with their own beliefs.

 

[Lexicus]

I thought you'd like Richard Daley. (and I should have been more specific, Richard J Daley) He was a Democrat.

The only reason anyone thinks I like the Democrats is because of how much I hate the Republicans.

 

[red_elk]

The only defining line for me on "paid protesters" is if they are protesting in direct conflict with their own beliefs just for the money, and frankly given the consequences of being somewhere that a riot could jump off I doubt anyone is willing to pay enough to account for them being there if they are not in line with their own beliefs.

If getting few bucks is their primary motive. As for beliefs, I imagine most of them are rather indifferent. If someone is protesting against his own beliefs, either he is paid well, or really desperate for money. But I agree there is no clear cut.

 

[zxcvbob]

The only reason anyone thinks I like the Democrats is because of how much I hate the Republicans.

I can relate to that but the other direction. I caucus with the Republicans not because I like them but because I hate the Democrat Party. I'm not going to say I hate Democrats; I'm married to one. And *she* mostly hates the Democrat Party.

 

[Lexicus]

I can relate to that but the other direction. I caucus with the Republicans not because I like them but because I hate the Democrat Party. I'm not going to say I hate Democrats; I'm married to one. And *she* mostly hates the Democrat Party.

What could make you hate the Democrats enough to caucus with those reptiles?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If getting few bucks is their primary motive. As for beliefs, I imagine most of them are rather indifferent. If someone is protesting against his own beliefs, either he is paid well, or really desperate for money. But I agree there is no clear cut.

Getting gaffled up by the cops is no joke. If you want me to show up at a protest and risk that over something I am "rather indifferent" about you better be offering more than "a few bucks." Just as a baseline you better have somebody I trust holding about $10K for my attorney. You can have that back if I don't wind up jailed, but I am gonna have to know it is available before we even start discussing my actual fees.

 

[innonimatu]

I would support the protesters if I could find any. (and I think there are some but they're being overshadowed by rioters) I think Prez Trump was right in the tweet he's catching so much flak for, but Mayor Richard Daley said it better. "Shoot to maim looters, shoot to kill arsonists" I get the anger, but why steal televisions and expensive tennis shoes, rob liquor stores, and burn down an auto parts store? Those businesses had nothing to do with the murder (I'll call it murder, we can bicker about the degree) They did torch a police station; that one kinda makes sense.

Think, you already know the explanation as to why. It's an explosion of rebellion that had been kept repressed. By people who know they have little in terms of dignity and social standing, in the eyes of the powers that be in society.

In their world, and it is a poor and constrained world, relatively expensive status items are a marker of social standing. Peanuts for the truly wealthy, who must be laughing at the spectacle, who but luxury goods in some select streets of major cities or even foreign countries, but that is another world. Those rebelling are doing so within their frame, attacking what they can reach, within the limits of their world. Hence the expensive shoes, the car dealers, the shops, the looting or the destruction of what they aspire to but can't have by "following the rules". You may think it is senseless looting of "small business", or destruction of "their own neighborhoods", but they can't march on Aspen or the Hamptons, can they? Beyond reach...

This is not the solution, because it cannot reach the ones that should be targeted by those rebelling. But emotions can't be always kept repressed. Sadly, it usually plays into the hands of those on top. Facilitates their need of keeping the plebeians divided.

 

[caketastydelish]

He outright tweeted that he'd tell the Guard to use lethal force. When Twitter disabled the tweet, he made the White House account post it again. (They disabled that tweet too.)

He's now bloviating about "MAGA Night" at the White House and waxed poetic about the young-gun Secret Service officers who were only barely restrained from mowing down protesters at the White House fence.

Not the greatest soul, I have to admit.

Im the opposite of a Trump fan, but I don’t see why those tweets would be deleted. He’s is the president of the United States, and he is almost certainly telling the truth about what he would do. The general public should be aware of the truth.

 

[shadowplay]

Anyone else see what happened on msnbc about 30 minutes ago? Ali Velshi and his crew, unambiguously media, were shot at directly by minnesota state police. Pretty sick stuff.

 

[Ajidica]

How Western media would cover Minneapolis if it happened in another country

If we talked about what is happening in Minneapolis the same way we talk about events in a foreign country, here’s how the Western media would cover it. The quotes and those “quoted” in the piece below are fictional.

In recent years, the international community has sounded the alarm on the deteriorating political and human rights situation in the United States under the regime of Donald Trump. Now, as the country marks 100,000 deaths from the coronavirus pandemic, the former British colony finds itself in a downward spiral of ethnic violence. The fatigue and paralysis of the international community are evident in its silence, America experts say.

The country has been rocked by several viral videos depicting extrajudicial executions of black ethnic minorities by state security forces. Uprisings erupted in the northern city of Minneapolis after a video circulated online of the killing of a black man, George Floyd, after being attacked by a security force agent. Trump took to Twitter, calling black protesters “THUGS”’ and threatening to send in military force. “When the looting starts, the shooting starts!” he declared.

“Sure, we get it that black people are angry about decades of abuse and impunity,” said G. Scott Fitz, a Minnesotan and member of the white ethnic majority. “But going after a Target crosses the line. Can’t they find a more peaceful way, like kneeling in silence?”

Ethnic violence has plagued the country for generations, and decades ago it captured the attention of the world, but recently the news coverage and concern are waning as there seems to be no end in sight to the oppression. “These are ancient, inexplicable hatreds fueling these ethnic conflicts and inequality," said Andreja Dulic, a foreign correspondent whose knowledge of American English consists of a semester course in college and the occasional session on the Duolingo app. When told the United States is only several hundred years old, he shrugged and said, “In my country, we have structures still from the Roman empire. In their culture, Americans think that a 150-year-old building is ancient history.”

Britain usually takes an acute interest in the affairs of its former colony, but it has also been affected by the novel coronavirus. “We’ve seen some setbacks with the virus, but some Brits see the rising disease, staggering unemployment and violence in the States and feel as if America was never ready to govern itself properly, that it would resort to tribal politics,” said Andrew Darcy Morthington, a London-based America expert. During the interview, a news alert informed that out of the nearly 40,000 coronavirus deaths in the United Kingdom, 61 percent of the health-care workers who have died were black and or have Middle Eastern backgrounds. Morthington didn’t seem to notice. “Like I was saying, we don’t have those American racism issues here.”

Trump, a former reality-TV host, beauty pageant organizer and businessman, once called African nations “******** countries." But he is now taking a page from African dictators who spread bogus health remedies, like Yahya Jammeh of Gambia, who claimed he could cure AIDS with bananas and herbal potions and pushed his treatments onto the population, resulting in deaths. Trump appeared to suggest injecting bleach and using sunlight to kill the coronavirus. He has also said he has taken hydroxycholoroquine, a drug derived from quinine, a long-known jungle remedy for malaria. Doctors have advised against using the treatment to prevent or treat the coronavirus.

Meanwhile, Americans desperate to flee will face steep challenges to cross borders, as mismanagement of the coronavirus and ethnic tensions in the country have made them undesirable visitors. But some struggling American retailers, like Neiman Marcus, are hoping to lure shoppers with traditional 19th-century colonial travel fantasies through neutral khakis and cargo shorts as part of a “Modern Safari” collection. “Utilitarian details & muted tones meet classic femininity,” reads a caption under the photograph of a white woman. Pith helmets were not included in the accessory lineup.

Some nations are considering offering black Americans special asylum. “Members of the white ethnic majority are forming armed militia groups, demanding their freedom to go back to work for the wealthy class who refer to workers as ‘human capital stock,’ despite the huge risk to workers,” said Mustapha Okango, a Nairobi-based anthropologist. “This is a throwback to the days when slavery was the backbone of the American economy. Black slaves were the original essential workers, and they were treated as non-human stock.”

Africa could be an ideal asylum destination, as several African countries have managed to contain the coronavirus outbreak through aggressive early measures and innovations in testing kits. Senegal, a nation of 16 million, has only seen 41 deaths. “Everyone predicted Africa would fall into chaos,” Okango said. “It is proof that being a black person in this world doesn’t kill you, but being a black person in America clearly can.” The African Union did not respond to requests for comment, but it released a statement that said “we believe in American solutions for American problems.”

Around the world, grass-roots organizations, celebrities, human rights activists and even students are doing what they can to raise money and awareness about the dire situation in America.

“It’s sad that the Americans don’t have a government that can get them coronavirus tests or even monthly checks to be able to feed their families,” said Charlotte Johnson, a 18-year-old Liberian student activist, who survived the Ebola pandemic. “100,000 people are dead, cities are burning, and the country hasn’t had a day of mourning? Lives don’t matter, especially not black lives. It’s like they’re living in a failing state.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...uJEQmjnCYtE5-aIIpNFXxrQWNNFhGW2XLfij_vZpEhLfs

 

[zxcvbob]

Think, you already know the explanation as to why. It's an explosion of rebellion that had been kept repressed. By people who know they have little in terms of dignity and social standing, in the eyes of the powers that be in society.

In their world, and it is a poor and constrained world, relatively expensive status items are a marker of social standing. Peanuts for the truly wealthy, who must be laughing at the spectacle, who but luxury goods in some select streets of major cities or even foreign countries, but that is another world. Those rebelling are doing so within their frame, attacking what they can reach, within the limits of their world. Hence the expensive shoes, the car dealers, the shops, the looting or the destruction of what they aspire to but can't have by "following the rules". You may think it is senseless looting of "small business", or destruction of "their own neighborhoods", but they can't march on Aspen or the Hamptons, can they? Beyond reach...

This is not the solution, because it cannot reach the ones that should be targeted by those rebelling. But emotions can't be always kept repressed. Sadly, it usually plays into the hands of those on top. Facilitates their need of keeping the plebeians divided.

Governor Walz and the mayor of St. Paul have both said recently that all the rioter that have been arrested have been out-of-staters. They haven't said how many that was, and of course they could be lying. One of the provacateurs the first night of rioting in Minneapolis (breaking windows at the AutoZone) was identified on social media as a St Paul cop, but the face was obscured enough with a mask that a positive ID was unlikely, and SPPD has denied it. But it was a white guy. Antifa? Neo-Nazi? Who knows, but he was a troublemaker not a protester.

 

[Ajidica]

Governor Walz and the mayor of St. Paul have both said recently that all the rioter that have been arrested have been out-of-staters. They haven't said how many that was, and of course they could be lying.

Turns out they were given inaccurate information.
(Thanks to @Lexicus for the link)

Carter said he was given inaccurate information during a police briefing, which he repeated at a Saturday morning press conference, according to CBS reporter David Begnaud.

The reversal came after a local news outlet KARE 11 examined data from the Hennepin County Jail’s roster and found nearly all the people arrested actually live in Minneapolis or the surrounding metro area.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergei...-protests-was-from-out-of-state/#3634c2b9233c

 

[zxcvbob]

I live about 90 miles south of the Twin Cities. The local Target and Cub Foods stores have closed and barricaded the front doors and windows. (plywood and pallets of water softener salt) AFAIK there has only been small peaceful protests here (I said earlier I didn't know of any peaceful protests but I've since read that there was one here today)

I have no idea why Target and Cub are being especially hit. Cub has a liquor store, and a name that kinda sounds like that of the store where G. Floyd allegedly passed a counterfeit $10 or $20 -- I've heard both denominations -- that got this whole thing started.

The Target on Lake Street in Mpls has vowed to reopen. Why? Seems like they should leave the damaged store abandoned there as an eyesore and monument to the stupidity of the rioters. Good luck finding someplace else to shop in that neighborhood now. Target has enough political clout in this state to do something like that.

I empathize with the protesters. Heck, if they have another rally I might join them. The rioters can all go to hell, along with the dirty cops.

 

[innonimatu]

@zxcvbob I read that this particular Target was a test site for their surveillance/anti-theft technologies deployed in stores on low-income areas... don't know it it's true.

I think this sarcastic Onion story captured the disconnect between the world of those on top and the world of those below:
Protestors Criticized For Looting Businesses Without Forming Private Equity Firm First