[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Cloud_Strife]

So basically "Why talk to people who disagree with you?" Isnt that the whole point. Doesnt it make less sense to talk to people who agree with you on everything. Maybe you just dont like to be challenged?

These American social justice movements like BLM are not even based on reality. The movement is based largely on feelings and anti-whiteness among Africa-Americans. Making African-Americans as some kind of super victims of the world is ridiculous. From global perspective they are privileged group of people like all Americans. In the end American wealth is based on de facto slave labor in poor countries and China, but very few talks about it because its not happening in America. Just like killing civilians is fine as long as the people killed are killed in foreign countries. Its also ok to support terrorist like Osama Bin Laden and dictators like Saddam Hussein in foreign countries. Both were created and supported by USA. Saddam was "good guy" when he was gassing Kurdish civilians and Iranians. Osama was "good guy" when he was fighting against Soviets. But when they turn against their master they became evil and must be eliminated. Its also ok to support Saudi-Arabia who stones people for witchcraft and treats non-muslims as second class citizens. But when police officer kills black man in USA Americans suddenly stand for human rights. Yeah right.

From American perspective Gang violence and mass shootings are bigger problems for all Americans and minorities. Police in America do kill people and some are unarmed. Most of these people killed are white. The real reason why these kind of organizations like BLM are so popular is that white people have self hate and on the other hand African-Americans dont like white people that much. Its so easy. Everyone knows who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. BLM is basically running on White guilt.

Income equality is clearly the biggest problem in todays world and especially in USA no matter what race people are. It is totally ridiculous how richest 0,1% has so tremendous wealth and they are becoming even richer when at the same time working class / middle class is suffering. Socialist policies would actually solve many American problems. Talk about some vague "racism" is totally useless in the long run. Its basically deception tactics. Talking about "racism" is easy and people in power love that when at the same time they get richer and poor became poorer. Occupy Wall Street was a movement that was based on something fundamental in American society. As long as Democrats and Republicans are working for companies instead of people there is no possibility for income equality. That is the real issue. Getting money out of politics is the solution.

Im not hardcore conservative. Im also not fan of Trump. I just like facts, statistics, science etc. I dont support social justice movements that are based on half-truths or marginal issues.

You literally sound like a white supremacist when you start claiming it's all about "self hate" and "white hate".

Literal "get whitey" nonsense

Like who the **** seriously wants to get into the weeds to argue whether or not black people, hispanic or asian people, gay, lesbian, bisexual or transpeople are deserving of equal rights unless you have ulterior motives for or against it

 

[H4run]

Police in America do kill lot of people and some are unarmed. Most of these people killed are white.

With what should I believe this claim? With faith?

 

[cardgame]

"black people don't know what they're talking about on the topic of black people" and using scarequotes around the word 'racism' is not a great look for someone who claims to not be a hardcore conservative and not support Trump.

 

[H4run]

"black people don't know what they're talking about on the topic of black people" and using scarequotes around the word 'racism' is not a great look for someone who claims to not be a hardcore conservative and not support Trump.

Can you just please believe him that he is not a fan of Trump? But he is a fan of facts, statistics, science etc.

Even though so far he provided zero statistic to back up his claim that most of the people who are killed by American police are "white".

 

[Gorbles]

Incidentally, I'm having a very similar discussion on another forum. There is a screenshot of a table used that puts deaths of white people at the hands of the police the highest in terms of number alone.

However, and this is the gotcha some of you are probably expecting, it doesn't bother to weight by the size of the demographic. Which, when applied, significantly reverses the equation

 

[JPetroski]

With what should I believe this claim? With faith?

Not sure about the "unarmed" part, but "more" white people are typically killed by cops each year than black people. This ignores the fact that blacks are killed at a much higher rate than whites, which is really the issue. It's pretty hard to look at the spread of statistics available and not draw the conclusion that blacks are disproportionately victimized by the police.

I'm at my phone and have trouble providing links but there are several fairly reputable sources for this data.

So, he's not "wrong" but the fact that "more" whites are killed (mostly on account of there being more of them in the first place) doesn't really tell the whole story of what is happening here.

Edit--@Gorbles beat me to it.

 

[H4run]

Not sure about the "unarmed" part, but "more" white people are typically killed by cops each year than black people. This ignores the fact that blacks are killed at a much higher rate than whites, which is really the issue. It's pretty hard to look at the spread of statistics available and not draw the conclusion that blacks are disproportionately victimized by the police.

I'm at my phone and have trouble providing links but there are several fairly reputable sources for this data.

So, he's not "wrong" but the fact that "more" whites are killed (mostly on account of there being more of them in the first place) doesn't really tell the whole story of what is happening here.

Edit--@Gorbles beat me to it.

I cannot agree with you just yet, but to be fair I really recognized your objective effort and argument, I will wait for the further elaboration of the subject from you.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

"black people don't know what they're talking about on the topic of black people" and using scarequotes around the word 'racism' is not a great look for someone who claims to not be a hardcore conservative and not support Trump.

Black people apparently don't know their own reality

Not sure about the "unarmed" part, but "more" white people are typically killed by cops each year than black people. This ignores the fact that blacks are killed at a much higher rate than whites, which is really the issue. It's pretty hard to look at the spread of statistics available and not draw the conclusion that blacks are disproportionately victimized by the police.

I'm at my phone and have trouble providing links but there are several fairly reputable sources for this data.

So, he's not "wrong" but the fact that "more" whites are killed (mostly on account of there being more of them in the first place) doesn't really tell the whole story of what is happening here.

Edit--@Gorbles beat me to it.

The real issue is that PoC's are treated with different gloves; much rougher, more lethal ones.

 

[JPetroski]

The real issue is that PoC's are treated with different gloves; much rougher, more lethal ones.

Yes, that seems to be accurate.

@haroon I'm happy to post a few links later but I think all of us are agreeing on this at least I'm not arguing with you!

 

[aelf]

So basically "Why talk to people who disagree with you?" Isnt that the whole point. Doesnt it make less sense to talk to people who agree with you on everything. Maybe you just dont like to be challenged?

These American social justice movements like BLM are not even based on reality. The movement is based largely on feelings and anti-whiteness among Africa-Americans. Making African-Americans as some kind of super victims of the world is ridiculous. From global perspective they are privileged group of people like all Americans. In the end American wealth is based on de facto slave labor in poor countries and China, but very few talks about it because its not happening in America. Just like killing civilians is fine as long as the people killed are killed in foreign countries. Its also ok to support terrorist like Osama Bin Laden and dictators like Saddam Hussein in foreign countries. Both were created and supported by USA. Saddam was "good guy" when he was gassing Kurdish civilians and Iranians. Osama was "good guy" when he was fighting against Soviets. But when they turn against their master they became evil and must be eliminated. Its also ok to support Saudi-Arabia who stones people for witchcraft and treats non-muslims as second class citizens. But when police officer kills black man in USA Americans suddenly stand for human rights. Yeah right.

From American perspective Gang violence and mass shootings are bigger problems for all Americans and minorities. Police in America do kill lot of people and some are unarmed. Most of these people killed are white. Police brutality is problem but making it just race issue is rather weird based on facts. The real reason why these kind of organizations like BLM are so popular is that white people have self hate and on the other hand African-Americans dont like white people that much. Its so easy. Everyone knows who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. BLM is basically running on White guilt.

Income equality is clearly the biggest problem in todays world and especially in USA no matter what race people are. It is totally ridiculous how richest 0,1% has so tremendous wealth and they are becoming even richer when at the same time working class / middle class is suffering. Socialist policies would actually solve many American problems. Talk about some vague "racism" is totally useless in the long run. Its basically deception tactics. Talking about "racism" is easy and people in power love that when at the same time they get richer and poor became poorer. Occupy Wall Street was a movement that was based on something fundamental in American society. As long as Democrats and Republicans are working for companies instead of people there is no possibility for income equality. That is the real issue. Getting money out of politics is the solution.

Im not hardcore conservative. Im also not fan of Trump. I just like facts, statistics, science etc. I dont support social justice movements that are based on half-truths or marginal issues.

Hahahaha. Your false outrage is hilarious.

Nice try attempting to make it seem like it's a simple disagreement like you might have in a gentlemen's backroom or something. By all means, please continue foaming in the mouth. Your existence merely proves what I'm saying right.

 

[Traitorfish]

That seems almost optimistic, as I suspect the Republican leadership is more fascistic now and do want a rabid police force that will smash anyone who doesn't back their fascistic ideology, property owners or not.

I'm not sure this is entirely accurate. They are following the script in the sense that their behavior now is a logical progression of their task over the past four or five decades, which has been violently clamping down on anything that might impede the transformation of American cities into giant glass piggy-banks for the global hyper-rich.

To clarify, it's not so much the act of brutalising civilians which is "off-script", it's the circumstances. The police began rioting of their own initiative, to protect their own power. These weren't initlaly orders trickling down from the presidency, from governors, even from mayors, they were at the initiative of senior police officers. The current turmoil benefits nobody except the police (if even them), and while Trump has attempted to turn it towards a show of power, he is doing so in reaction to events already unfolding, by endorsing what the police had already decided to quite without his instruction or authority. It's plausible that Trump personally is enough of a narcissistic creep that he only sees current events in terms of opportunities for authoritarian grandstanding, but those around him must surely be sweating at the realisation that the paramilitary gangs they have planted in every American city only very nominally answer to their authority.

 

[Inhalaattori]

You literally sound like a white supremacist when you start claiming it's all about "self hate" and "white hate".

Literal "get whitey" nonsense

Like who the **** seriously wants to get into the weeds to argue whether or not black people, hispanic or asian people, gay, lesbian, bisexual or transpeople are deserving of equal rights unless you have ulterior motives for or against it

No answers, no facts, just labeling people with negative words... I didnt say anything about those groups you mentioned. I have no idea what you are talking about here.

Based on statistics police killings against black people is not as big of an issue as people make it to be. If you think "black lives matter" this is not the biggest issue. Police brutality is easy target for self-hating white "liberals" and blacks.

In general I feel many white Americans have some serious identity issues. I have no idea why white Americans would care so much about black people and their issues. Dont you have your own problems with Opioid Epidemic, which killed 70.000 people in 2017 alone. Talk about that. There is a Polish proverb “Not my circus, not my monkeys.”, which I think fits here.

 

[H4run]

self-hating white "liberals"

I feel many white Americans have some serious identity issues.

I have no idea why white Americans would care so much about black people

For someone who claim to be an avid appreciator of facts, statistic and science your base argument look like the worst form of propaganda from the most shady white nationalist website. Who is the scientist that you fancy the most I wonder, is he Alex Jones?

 

[Inhalaattori]

Can you just please believe him that he is not a fan of Trump? But he is a fan of facts, statistics, science etc.

Even though so far he provided zero statistic to back up his claim that most of the people who are killed by American police are "white".

Here you go:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

For someone who claim to be an avid appreciator of facts, statistic and science your base argument look like the worst form of propaganda from the most shady white nationalist website. Who is the scientist that you fancy the most I wonder, is he Alex Jones?

This is just my own observation. I dont know Alex Jones that well, but based on few clips I have seen he seems pretty unbalanced individual with pretty serious mental issues.

 

[JPetroski]

Are you an American, Inhalaattorri? Because if not, maybe it's an honest mistake, but I've got to tell you, that has to be about the worst possible proverb you could possibly quote in an "I'm not racist" post.

 

[cardgame]

In general I feel many white Americans have some serious identity issues. I have no idea why white Americans would care so much about black people and their issues.

sociopathy confirmed

 

[Cloud_Strife]

No answers, no facts, just labeling people with negative words... I didnt say anything about those groups you mentioned. I have no idea what you are talking about here.

Based on statistics police killings against black people is not as big of an issue as people make it to be. If you think "black lives matter" this is not the biggest issue. Police brutality is easy target for self-hating white "liberals" and blacks.

In general I feel many white Americans have some serious identity issues. I have no idea why white Americans would care so much about black people and their issues. Dont you have your own problems with Opioid Epidemic, which killed 70.000 people in 2017 alone. Talk about that. There is a Polish proverb “Not my circus, not my monkeys.”, which I think fits here.

The opioid epidemic, which was killing black americans well before it became an established problem in white communities...

You don't have a clue.

 

[Gorbles]

Here you go:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

Thanks for the link!

Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites.

So you can argue you might be right on the technicality that more white people are killed by police, but given that there's what, nearly 200 million (non-Hispanic) white people (AFAIK) in the US, compared to many less people in other racial demographics, it's a very poor technicality to argue.

 

[Inhalaattori]

Are you an American, Inhalaattorri? Because if not, maybe it's an honest mistake, but I've got to tell you, that has to be about the worst possible proverb you could possibly quote in an "I'm not racist" post.

Im not American, I live in Europe. I did say Im not a big fan of Mr. Trump. He is probably better option than Joe Biden, but thats not really saying much. They are bot pretty bad. Trump seems to be in better mental condition though. I dont know if Biden is mentally fit to be president.

 

[H4run]

Here you go:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

Right, I appreciate that. Now in the statistic it's mentioned:

Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites. Most victims were reported to be armed (83%); however, black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%) or Hispanic (5.8%) victims.

From the whole sample of population, like you said, the white population do get the higher case (52%) in comparison to the black population (32%), now correct me if I'm wrong here but the black people population is a significant minority in comparison to the white population in the US, with the estimate of white population is around 75% of America's total population while the black population only somewhat 12%.

Keeping that in mind, you cannot say that "based on statistic" white American suffer more police brutality, because when the significantly Black minority Black occupied 32% of the total sample, that's mean if you are black you get higher chance to get kill by the police than if you are white like, significantly.

The worst thing about this statistic, that it stated the black population sample get much higher chance to get killed while un-armed than the white majority. It sound to me like huge huge problem. And correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.

Im not American, I live in Europe.

Let me guess...

You are white right?