[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Seon]

Like a Portlander said, this mass detainment appear to be to satisfy Trump’s personal vendetta against the city for being the site of very public and visible anti-Trump demonstrations in the past. Otherwise it’s unclear why this particular city appear to be the focal point of at least six different federal agencies who have weighed in about the necessity of quelling unrest there.

 

[Crezth]

Protesters stop being protesters and lose all rights whenever the government decides, and even more hilarious libertarian takes that will have you and your friends' sides splitting in this delightful coffee table book.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Shock as libertarian is actually okay with increasingly fascistic tactics, as long as they target brown, black or white people who don't conform to his ideals

Shock at anyone continuing to give said libertarian the benefit of the doubt when all they've ever done is put themselves on the side of the oppressors, against the oppressed.

Daddy loves fascism, he just doesn't like it when the boot/knee is on his neck, but black people? hispanics? asians? indigenous? working class whites? LGBTQ? protesters? the poor? democrats? thats okay and infact JUSTIFIABLE

note how even pointing out the observable and historical fact that america was founded on and continues to be run by a white ruling class, with white supremacist interests at the expense of everyone (including white people!) provokes claims of racism but he's no where to be found on the actual topic and what sparked it in the first place.

I wonder why he conveniantly yells "racism" whenever someone brings up something disparaging, yet wholely truthful and historical about white people but is otherwise content to ignore or plead ignorance to racism or bigotry when it applies to others.

So strange this keeps happening

What are people supposed to make of this?

 

[Yeekim]

So critical that when the NYPD threw a hissy fit and went on strike crime went down in New York City.

Are you for real?
Who do you think records crime?
I've seen some dumb claims here over the years, but this easily counts among top three.

 

[cardgame]

Are you for real?
Who do you think records crime?
I've seen some dumb claims here over the years, but this easily counts among top three.

Do you think crime stops happening if nobody arrests the criminals?

Crime still went down. Why? Because the people recording crime stopped fabricating arrests with broken window policing.

 

[Yeekim]

Do you think crime stops happening if nobody arrests the criminals?

Crime still went down. Why? Because the people recording crime stopped fabricating arrests with broken window policing.

Christ, are you two on the same water supply or something?
Crime and arrests are separate things.

If statistics show "crime went down", it did because people recording it simply stopped recording it.

 

[Crezth]

It's well known American police fabricate crime statistics. They fabricate the cause of many arrests as well. So there's no particular reason to trust the police are capable of recording crime objectively.

As for "who" records crime, well, as it turns out, lots of people, including concerned citizens and journalists. And they don't always agree with the cops. Didn't we just have this discussion about China?

 

[cardgame]

Christ, are you two on the same water supply or something?
Crime and arrests are separate things.

If statistics show "crime went down", it did because people recording it simply stopped recording it.

You should look into the matter before saying things so definitively. Police were still coming to work, the strike was a discontinuance of their broken windows policing tactics, because people had complained. The cops decided to strike and only respond to calls, and they did this because they thought as soon as the public felt that criminals were everywhere, they'd come running back to the police apologizing with tears on their face because they had been robbed or assaulted or whatever. So yeah, the cops "striked" by stopping their policy of being *******s and rolling up on people minding their own business (like Elijah McClain) and crime went down, when police were explicitly striking to make crime go up. They would have been delighted to record more crimes. The crimes simply weren't happening.

 

[Yeekim]

You should look into the matter before saying things so definitively. Police were still coming to work, the strike was a discontinuance of their broken windows policing tactics, because people had complained. The cops decided to strike and only respond to calls, and they did this because they thought as soon as the public felt that criminals were everywhere, they'd come running back to the police apologizing with tears on their face because they had been robbed or assaulted or whatever. So yeah, the cops "striked" by stopping their policy of being *******s and rolling up on people minding their own business (like Elijah McClain) and crime went down, when police were explicitly striking to make crime go up. They would have been delighted to record more crimes. The crimes simply weren't happening.

So people did not bother to report crimes to police they knew were on a strike.

 

[Crezth]

So people did not bother to report crimes to police they knew were on a strike.

That's one explanation, by no means the only nor most plausible one.

 

[Yeekim]

That's one explanation, by no means the only nor most plausible one.

The comment from Sonereal I took issue with objected to law enforcement being necessary in society at all, claiming "when police went on strike in NYPD, crime went down".
Well, it appears that police actually maintained their core duties throughout the "strike", so that claim becomes disingenuous in the first place.
The slight drop (3-6%) of reported crime during that short period is most likely either entirely random fluctuation or a failure to report or to record.

That said, a debate over whether "broken window policing" is an effective strategy or not is entirely different from a debate over whether law enforcement as such is necessary or not.
The former I'm willing to entertain, the latter certainly not.

(like Elijah McClain)

Damn, that's messed up.

 

[Traitorfish]

This is a farce. The protesters were just protesters by their own accounting. The right to protest was guaranteed to them by their right to freedom of speech.

Free speech is when you get to say slurs on Twitter, it has nothing to do with criticising the government.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Another black life, one that certainly visibly mattered, has ended.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ts-hero-and-democratic-congressman-dies-at-80

John Lewis, US civil rights hero and Democratic congressman, dies at 80

Lewis helped Martin Luther King organise the March on Washington in 1963 and once suffered a broken skull at the hands of state troopers

 

[Joij21]

./flew right over your head

/r whoosh.

 

[Crezth]

The comment from Sonereal I took issue with objected to law enforcement being necessary in society at all, claiming "when police went on strike in NYPD, crime went down".
Well, it appears that police actually maintained their core duties throughout the "strike", so that claim becomes disingenuous in the first place.
The slight drop (3-6%) of reported crime during that short period is most likely either entirely random fluctuation or a failure to report or to record.

This is parsing, and also speculation. You have no evidence for your assertion that the "slight" drop of reported crime is most likely random or a failure to report. Based on what? Your opinion on the matter?

The police maintained "core duties" (as defined by you)... and sharply dropped foot patrols. The argument that you take cops off the streets and crime goes down is still there. And you're talking to people for whom the ineffectiveness and corruption of American police is lived experience. At a minimum policing in black communities is a reign of terror. You wouldn't tell people whose family were disappeared by the Soviet state that "Well we can't just have no Soviet police at all." Hell it'd be reasonable to conclude they'd just want to get rid of those police entirely, and maybe arrange for their own protection outside a giant municipal bureaucracy that systematically marginalizes Black and impoverished voices. Er, non-Soviet voices. You know what I mean.

 

[Kyriakos]

America's troubles in moving from NKVD to KGB.

 

[Crezth]

More like from Klan to SS.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

More like from Klan to SS.

The Klan never really left, but then again we are imprisoning people in literal concentration camps, to the delight of fascist-adjacents

 

[TheMeInTeam]

While I do not defend the take itself, we have certainly gotten to a point where conspiracy theories are damaging society and now can be blamed for pretty extensive amount of unnecessary death. This is definitely a problem.

Some of those conspiracies have contributed to violent rioting, true.

Crime still went down. Why? Because the people recording crime stopped fabricating arrests with broken window policing.

Earlier someone said something about crime going down in NYC, but shootings are up > 300% compared to this point in 2019, and it's not even close to all cops doing it.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loc...s-soar-358-over-last-year-data-shows/2478075/

Free speech is when you get to say slurs on Twitter, it has nothing to do with criticising the government.

Good luck demonstrating a pattern of government targeting its critics with any sound data/evidence in the US.

 

[Commodore]

“Portland was totally out of control, and they went in, and I guess we have many people right now in jail, and we very much quelled it, and if it starts again, we’ll quell it again very easily,” Trump said Monday. “It’s not hard to do, if you know what you’re doing.”

https://www.nationalreview.com/news...of-absolute-abuse-of-federal-law-enforcement/

Except as far as I understand there have been zero federal charges or federal arrests formally. . .so yea just unmarked federales kidnapping people in black clothes. . .because they are wearing black.

So what do you plan on doing about it? Complaining on internet forums isn't going to work. Complaining on social media isn't going to work. Marching with a sign in your hand isn't going to work. Writing your representative isn't going to work. Voting isn't going to work.

So again, what are you going to do about this? What's the plan to stop this from happening?