German politics thread

[SeleucusNicator]

When I think of it from view of 'who would I vote for if I were German?', i'll go for the party as Hitro choose, given our political views are largely the same.

Oh, from a "who wouldd I vote for it I were German" perspective, it's definately CDU for me.

 

[kronic]

@SN
Your expectations about the Greens are all wrong.

I certainly won't vote for Merkel or Westerwelle. Turkey is the only issue on which I agree with the Union.

I do think we need a new left movement, but the WASG is not what I want. I hope, that the Social Democrats will develop a new profile (and hopefully won't become a German New Labour) once they're are in the opposition.

I predict a Grand Coalition.

 

[Ciceronian]

Pure :thumbdown:

What's the problem concerning Turkey? Exept they are muslim their economy is better of than some of the eastern ones we'd take coz they're Christians.

You're are a victim of propaganda.

Same to the second part of your post. SED is not PDS and anyway. Merkel will drive Germany into even more unemployment, poorer lifestyle and more companie slaves than already!

And one thing you swhould never forget!!! She supported Kohl CRIMINAL deeds! She flew to USA climbing up GWB a**e and if she'd had the power, German soldiers would serve in Iraq as well as in Afghaninstan. Although foir Iraq is not UN mandat. Vote her! You'll see what you recieve.

Dein Stahlhelm ist auch schon gepresst!

My reasoning on Turkey is as follows:
- They are not in any sense of the word "European".
- I have no problem with their religion, but rather with the implications which it has: like any muslim country, it is backwardly traditional, very lose on human rights and heavily dominated by religion.
- Their economy is poor, they are an agricultural state.
- With Turkey, the borders of the EU would reach far into the Middle East.
- Germany would have no way to control Turkish immagration. Unless you walk through the streets with your eyes closed, you must have noticed that the large number of Turks is causing problems in Germany.

Btw, the PDS is the continuation of the SED, they were renamed after German unity. What we need at the moment in German is a Thatcherist policy, with radical reforms and a cut on excessive welfare and social programs. Germany is in a deep economical crisis, and the only way to recover at the moment is through tough reforming, not by drawing up a socialist program.

 

[kronic]

Btw, the PDS is the continuation of the SED, they were renamed after German unity. What we need at the moment in German is a Thatcherist policy, with radical reforms and a cut on excessive welfare and social programs. Germany is in a deep economical crisis, and the only way to recover at the moment is through tough reforming, not by drawing up a socialist program.

We don't need Thatcherist policies. We could as well look to Scandinavia and not to Britain.

 

[nonconformist]

Bleh. Thatcherism. If any country ever insitutes Thatcherism, we might as well send the old bag over to you.

 

[farting bob]

We don't need Thatcherist policies. We could as well look to Scandinavia and not to Britain.

You can have thatcher if youw ant. We'll even opay for her 1-way plane ticket. I dont think many will miss her, she has a sort of evil cow image who ruined the industrial sector and screwed over the poor people. Crusty old conservatives love her though.

 

[Hitro]

Oh, from a "who wouldd I vote for it I were German" perspective, it's definately CDU for me.

Hmm, hard to tell if that makes sense. You could also go for the FDP instead, considering you aren't exactly Conservative. But as they are both suckups to the US in foreign policy terms both would be a good choice for you even if you "weren't" German.

I hope, that the Social Democrats will develop a new profile (and hopefully won't become a German New Labour) once they're are in the opposition.

I predict a Grand Coalition.

Don't you think those two things somewhat contradict each other, at least when practical decisions (like voting) are concerned?

If you predict a Grand Coalition, which I also find quite realistic, then you have to consider that the SPD won't end up in the opposition and hence not even the precedent for what you hope for will be given.

The SPD could have changed now, including to ditch their leaders, that didn't happen. They'll enter the election campaign supporting the Agenda 2010 and all that comes along with it. That clearly makes them a non-leftist party for this election and it's not forseeable if that will ever change again.

 

[nonconformist]

You can have thatcher if youw ant. We'll even opay for her 1-way plane ticket. I dont think many will miss her, she has a sort of evil cow image

Understatement of the year. It rhymes with "witch".

 

[luiz]

Tatcher did many wrong things, and even the good things she did hurted in the short run. But brits should keep in mind that the UK was heading straight to the hole before she took over, and it's thanks to her that you have one of the most healthy economies in the world.

I tend to agree with Ciceronian that Germany needs something along the lines of Tatcherism. I would take it a bit slower, though, as germans are still fond of many of the socialistic traits of their state. Germany will have to reform, even Schroeder knows that. Hopefully it will be sooner rather than later.

 

[nonconformist]

Tatcher did many wrong things, and even the good things she did hurted in the short run. But brits should keep in mind that the UK was heading straight to the hole before she took over, and it's thanks to her that you have one of the most healthy economies in the world.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

The fact is, Thatcher did nothing right.
Britain has only recently, under New Labour recovered from her. I spent my childhood with my parents being dragged through court and having everything reposessed because of Thatcher.
Thatcher introduced the poll tax.
She closed the mine pits.
She bred class warfare. The closest Britain has been to open rioting happened during Thatcher. She destroyed communities, she destroyed our whole primary industry, she made thousands unemployed, the police beat the living crpa out of miners, miners beat the crap out of each other, she put Ireland under a jackboot, trampled over people's rights, went to war over the tinny Argentinian islands, and a lot more.

 

[luiz]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

The fact is, Thatcher did nothing right.
Britain has only recently, under New Labour recovered from her. I spent my childhood with my parents being dragged through court and having everything reposessed because of Thatcher.
Thatcher introduced the poll tax.
She closed the mine pits.
She bred class warfare. The closest Britain has been to open rioting happened during Thatcher. She destroyed communities, she destroyed our whole primary industry, she made thousands unemployed, the police beat the living crpa out of miners, miners beat the crap out of each other, she put Ireland under a jackboot, trampled over people's rights, went to war over the tinny Argentinian islands, and a lot more.

And yet, she was ultimately the one who made the UK leave behind it's "second-class nation" status that it had before she took over. The UK was actually one of the poorest nations of Western Europe, now it is among the richest. New Labour kept many traits of the tatcherist reforms.

As I said, even the good things that she did hurted in the short term. By deregulating the economy unemployement increased, real wages fell, ect. But in the medium term unemployed fell dramatically and real wages went up. While I condemn her brutality towards workers, fact is the british Unions were Mafias with disproportional power, that were keeping the nation in a terrible condition.

I'm not saying that you should like Tatcher, but I think you should look at her term with a more broad perpesctive.

 

[nonconformist]

And yet, she was ultimately the one who made the UK leave behind it's "second-class nation" status that it had before she took over. The UK was actually one of the poorest nations of Western Europe, now it is among the richest. New Labour kept many traits of the tatcherist reforms.

As I said, even the good things that she did hurted in the short term. By deregulating the economy unemployement increased, real wages fell, ect. But in the medium term unemployed fell dramatically and real wages went up. While I condemn her brutality towards workers, fact is the british Unions were Mafias with disproportional power, that were keeping the nation in a terrible condition.

I'm not saying that you should like Tatcher, but I think you should look at her term with a more broad perpesctive.

You cna't pin the start of the reforms until at least John Major, when Kenneth clarke was Chancellor.
Thatcher screwed us over, royally. Under Thatcher, we almost went backwards. The harm she's done still hasn't been remedies; there are still places, a lot of them northern, where their in poverty, because people, who had been working in mines and factories for generations, whos only prospect of work were there had been clsoed down. Now globalistation and industrialisation means that we're stuck on this level.

 

[Ciceronian]

Tatcher did many wrong things, and even the good things she did hurted in the short run. But brits should keep in mind that the UK was heading straight to the hole before she took over, and it's thanks to her that you have one of the most healthy economies in the world.

I tend to agree with Ciceronian that Germany needs something along the lines of Tatcherism. I would take it a bit slower, though, as germans are still fond of many of the socialistic traits of their state. Germany will have to reform, even Schroeder knows that. Hopefully it will be sooner rather than later.

Exactly. Germany seems to heading straight towards the hole aswell, that's why I'm suggesting something like Thatcherist politics to avert disaster and pull Germany out of the marsh of economic stagnation. I'm not saying I want to have Thatcher over here or we should do all the things wrong that she did wrong, but we need some tough reforms along those lines.

 

[kronic]

Don't you think those two things somewhat contradict each other, at least when practical decisions (like voting) are concerned?

If you predict a Grand Coalition, which I also find quite realistic, then you have to consider that the SPD won't end up in the opposition and hence not even the precedent for what you hope for will be given.

Yes, but that's nothing that I can change. I neither agree with the SPD nor with the WASG, but I know that a permanent division of the left will (re-)establish the dominance of the right.

 

[nonconformist]

Fine, vote Thatcher. But I swear, if you do, Storm Troopers will march through the streets!

 

[Hitro]

Yes, but that's nothing that I can change. I neither agree with the SPD nor with the WASG, but I know that a permanent division of the left will (re-)establish the dominance of the right.

Well, the only hope is that a strong showing of the new party and the destruction of Schröder at the polls will lead to a reorientation of the SPD back to its core values. Then the new party might get marginalized quite soon. But if the SPD doesn't turn back, and as long as people who disagree with the neo-liberal course still vote them anyway they surely won't, the new party will be the whole left. And that's surely better than nothing, also for our representative democracy.

 

[ComradeDavo]

And yet, she was ultimately the one who made the UK leave behind it's "second-class nation" status that it had before she took over. The UK was actually one of the poorest nations of Western Europe, now it is among the richest. New Labour kept many traits of the tatcherist reforms.

As I said, even the good things that she did hurted in the short term. By deregulating the economy unemployement increased, real wages fell, ect. But in the medium term unemployed fell dramatically and real wages went up. While I condemn her brutality towards workers, fact is the british Unions were Mafias with disproportional power, that were keeping the nation in a terrible condition.

I'm not saying that you should like Tatcher, but I think you should look at her term with a more broad perpesctive.

Luiz - There may be jobs, but there is still alot of poverty, homelessness and crime. Schools are like warzones, there are yobs on the street (do some googling on the word 'chav' to find Thatchers real legacy ).

 

[farting bob]

Chavs are the scum of the earth, and are a result of high unemployment in some areas for 20+ years now. Strange, unemployment is very low in this country (less than a million out of 30 million of working age) and yet its very much concentrated in the north.
Anyway, back to german politics (i tend to get sidetracked..) I agree that tough reforms may work, but the current german economy is different to britain 25 years ago, and i think most politions will be looking for fast repsonces, yet i believe that it may take a long time for germany to recover from this recession, and you'll probably get through quite a few governments before you find one that seems to work.

 

[nonconformist]

Chavs are the scum of the earth, and are a result of high unemployment in some areas for 20+ years now. Strange, unemployment is very low in this country (less than a million out of 30 million of working age) and yet its very much concentrated in the north.

Yeah, could it possibly be that the north relied almost completely on its coal, steel and factory industry that got closed down? How odd.

 

[farting bob]

What i meant was that it still hasent really recovered in 20 years, wheras most palces have developed and adapted to the new tech economy, some places are exactly like they were in the 80's, ive even noticed alot more mullet-wearing men up there than we have down south.