Ghandi and his many hordes (Let's play!)
- Thread starter TheCox
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hey cox..this is a good map..you should have fun with this
Anywho, i Played until the first settler which I 4>2 whipped with a chop. I'm attaching a series of 3 saves that should show you what I did here. (you don't always have the luxury of waiting to size 4 but with this much food to start you can take advantage of it early)
I grew to 4 on warriors. In this case I let city grow to 1t to pop 5 then started settler (no need to finish current warrior yet ...just let it sit in queue). When it comes to slavery/whipping it can get complex, but just note that each citizen on normal equals 30 hammers (h). So a 2 pop whip nets you 60h from those citizens. A settler costs 100h so you need to put enough hammers into the settler to exceed 40H but not equal to or greater than 70h into the settler. The closer to 70H you are the more hammer overflow you get..this is like free hammers and it is one of the keys to advanced play. ( i realize this may be too much for you now, but something to chew on..mastering whipping and overflow takes time and practice, but it never hurts to start)
So whipping at 69H into settler is ideal. Ofc, it isn't always easy to get the exact number or always necessary. Speed can be just as important. I put 2 or 3 turns into the settler then whipped while the worker prepared a chop. As you see this lead to a 2t new worker.
I like the gold city just south that can share the rice to grow. 2 wet corns is plenty for one city and you can always adjust between cities later as needed. Plus, this city can help work cottages later for Delhi.
(also, note that I thought the river reached Delhi for an insta-trade route, but this was not actually the case. First thing I will do with the new worker is place a road on the rice which will link the river to Delhi...that is all the road you will need for a trade route with Bombay.. I like, if possible, to have trade routes up asap)
Anywho, i Played until the first settler which I 4>2 whipped with a chop. I'm attaching a series of 3 saves that should show you what I did here. (you don't always have the luxury of waiting to size 4 but with this much food to start you can take advantage of it early)
I grew to 4 on warriors. In this case I let city grow to 1t to pop 5 then started settler (no need to finish current warrior yet ...just let it sit in queue). When it comes to slavery/whipping it can get complex, but just note that each citizen on normal equals 30 hammers (h). So a 2 pop whip nets you 60h from those citizens. A settler costs 100h so you need to put enough hammers into the settler to exceed 40H but not equal to or greater than 70h into the settler. The closer to 70H you are the more hammer overflow you get..this is like free hammers and it is one of the keys to advanced play. ( i realize this may be too much for you now, but something to chew on..mastering whipping and overflow takes time and practice, but it never hurts to start)
So whipping at 69H into settler is ideal. Ofc, it isn't always easy to get the exact number or always necessary. Speed can be just as important. I put 2 or 3 turns into the settler then whipped while the worker prepared a chop. As you see this lead to a 2t new worker.
I like the gold city just south that can share the rice to grow. 2 wet corns is plenty for one city and you can always adjust between cities later as needed. Plus, this city can help work cottages later for Delhi.
(also, note that I thought the river reached Delhi for an insta-trade route, but this was not actually the case. First thing I will do with the new worker is place a road on the rice which will link the river to Delhi...that is all the road you will need for a trade route with Bombay.. I like, if possible, to have trade routes up asap)
TalladegaKnight
King
I vote pottery next. Explore the gold site. I'm thinking 2nd city around there sharing the rice with the capital possibly
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well, you don't need slavery to chop, but yeah..you will be whippin' it up good here. You are Spiritual anyway, so no anarchy.
If not Spiritual it depends. If I plan to whip the first settler due to having good food I will usually just switch immediately anyway. If I slow build or chop a size 2 or 3 settler I will switch after the settler pops and moving, so second city receives no anarchy.
If not Spiritual it depends. If I plan to whip the first settler due to having good food I will usually just switch immediately anyway. If I slow build or chop a size 2 or 3 settler I will switch after the settler pops and moving, so second city receives no anarchy.
Lots of Jargon terms in there, trying to understand it all. But in a nutshell, you are saying we should do the following:
1. Build warriors until 4 pop of city (looks like its just one warrior that comes out)
2. Go 1 turn into 5 pop of city - Go for settler
3. On 3rd turn of settler, chop with a worker and whip the settler to finish.
4. Use settler to settle 1NE of the gold mine
5. Build a road on the rice tile so that it connects via water to bombay and they can share resources.
Now, I'm thinking that once we get that taken care of, build a road on the gold tile as well so that it connects both cities.
AH is researching so that we can get those cows to the west right? I don't think I'm missing anything else here.
1. Build warriors until 4 pop of city (looks like its just one warrior that comes out)
2. Go 1 turn into 5 pop of city - Go for settler
3. On 3rd turn of settler, chop with a worker and whip the settler to finish.
4. Use settler to settle 1NE of the gold mine
5. Build a road on the rice tile so that it connects via water to bombay and they can share resources.
Now, I'm thinking that once we get that taken care of, build a road on the gold tile as well so that it connects both cities.
AH is researching so that we can get those cows to the west right? I don't think I'm missing anything else here.
So your last save was for turn 35, I'm at T39 and have 3 warriors, two workers, building a granary in Bombay and warriors in Delhi.
I'm going to put a mine/road on to the gold tile so that I can connect everything to both cities. Oh and to top it off, Ethopia has a tile over near the west of them with FOUR ivory all on top of each other.. I was like whaa?
I'm going to put a mine/road on to the gold tile so that I can connect everything to both cities. Oh and to top it off, Ethopia has a tile over near the west of them with FOUR ivory all on top of each other.. I was like whaa?
When whipping often in a city, such as you can here, building extra workers or settlers is a good strategy, because your population (and therefore your unhappiness) will not rise.
If you hover over the whip button, it tells you how many turns the next whip Unhappy will last, usually subtract 10 to know when the current unhapoy will go away. Learning to balance the rate of city growth and how fast Unhappy goes away is a good thing to practice.
Have you come across horses, ivory, or a metal that you can settle and claim yet? It is a good idea to start thinking about what units you want for a stronger military. You will not need to build them quite yet, but will want to be able to build them fast when you do.
On Noble archers are good enough for defense early, if you want to try and expand peacefully, just make sure you build enough units. Having enough units and strength of your units is how you stop the AI from attacking you, which as you learned, they will do even if friendly.
I try for 2 military and 1 worker per city, not necessarily in the cities or evenly spread border might have more army, safer areas less, a ge2 units busting fog and fighting barbarians, but if I have 5 cities I want at least 10 fairly current military units, more if I am near an aggressive AI or I want to attack myself
If you hover over the whip button, it tells you how many turns the next whip Unhappy will last, usually subtract 10 to know when the current unhapoy will go away. Learning to balance the rate of city growth and how fast Unhappy goes away is a good thing to practice.
Have you come across horses, ivory, or a metal that you can settle and claim yet? It is a good idea to start thinking about what units you want for a stronger military. You will not need to build them quite yet, but will want to be able to build them fast when you do.
On Noble archers are good enough for defense early, if you want to try and expand peacefully, just make sure you build enough units. Having enough units and strength of your units is how you stop the AI from attacking you, which as you learned, they will do even if friendly.
I try for 2 military and 1 worker per city, not necessarily in the cities or evenly spread border might have more army, safer areas less, a ge2 units busting fog and fighting barbarians, but if I have 5 cities I want at least 10 fairly current military units, more if I am near an aggressive AI or I want to attack myself
TalladegaKnight
King
I wanted to open the save last night but didn't get a chance.
Can you post your turn 30 something save and I'll try to look later today or tonight? Or maybe some screenshots of the land and what your capital is doing?
Often while waiting for the first improvement to be built by the worker, I will work my best hammer tile to squeeze out another warrior or two. These guys are good explorers or barb spawn busters. Once the corn is improved though always work them.
With the initial view of the land, I would tech pottery before animal husbandry, but that's blind advice probably. Granary in the capital will be of more use for whipping out more settlers and workers, grabbing more land.
Can you post your turn 30 something save and I'll try to look later today or tonight? Or maybe some screenshots of the land and what your capital is doing?
Often while waiting for the first improvement to be built by the worker, I will work my best hammer tile to squeeze out another warrior or two. These guys are good explorers or barb spawn busters. Once the corn is improved though always work them.
With the initial view of the land, I would tech pottery before animal husbandry, but that's blind advice probably. Granary in the capital will be of more use for whipping out more settlers and workers, grabbing more land.
There is Ivory down to the SW of me, in fact it has a spot of literally 4 ivory in an L shape covering 4 tiles. But that is a bit far away and is next to the Ethiopians.
Attached are the T39 save and a screenshot of what I have so far.. Is there a way to be able to zoom out and still see everything on the map that I see?
Working Granaries in both cities for food overflow, but I gave a full overview of what the cities have + what I have explored so far. I will say that I'm thinking of obvious choices here the gold mine + road to connect the two cities. Now I have two workers, so would one building the road and one working the mine be beneficial or should I just double team the mine and road with both of them at the same time?
Attached are the T39 save and a screenshot of what I have so far.. Is there a way to be able to zoom out and still see everything on the map that I see?
Working Granaries in both cities for food overflow, but I gave a full overview of what the cities have + what I have explored so far. I will say that I'm thinking of obvious choices here the gold mine + road to connect the two cities. Now I have two workers, so would one building the road and one working the mine be beneficial or should I just double team the mine and road with both of them at the same time?
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Not sure exactly what you are asking here..is it for you or for us? Anyway, you can zoom in and out with the mouse scroll wheel...the globe button takes you all the way out.
1) So, you notice now that you have a trade route in Bombay with just that one road (start to think about little things like this ..worker management, when to build a road and how many you need early or if any to get up a trade route, what is the importance of trade routes?)
2) I probably woulda chopped that forested grass hill first (FGH) to get a mine up
3) Bombay should have taken rice immediately for now to grow onto the gold (note again here that because these 2 cities overlap not only does it save you in distance maintenance cost, which gets even higher on higher difficulties, but you can tile share between these cities. This really comes into play nicely when you start laying cottages for Delhi that need to be kept worked by a citizen to grow and get more commerce over time. You can also share food and hammers as well, as needed) If possible, compact empires are nice for these reasons.
4) I don't like the chop into warrior. queue up a settler to take the chop this turn, then grow to 4 on the warrior again which should time right to the happiness issue by working the 2 corns and 1 2F1H forest tile. Again, as described above, get about 70H into the settlers and then 2 pop into a worker, then start granary
5) Cows/Gold to the W is looking decent but I expect GK will settle near there very soon..it's about that time for him to settle. He may settle stupidly, so we will keep an eye on that for now.
6) E warrior should move North to bust that area and then stay on a hill there. I'm thinking the next spot to settle is that cow E of Bombay with floods plains. AH will be in before the settler whip so we can adjust as needed. Horses will be a factor too.
7) that warrior down SW went a bit to far. Heal him up and bring him N to spawbust SW of area of Bombay
8) You can see a little pattern here: We are not using any MP in cities at the moment, keeping them small and whipping settlers and workers, balance against the existing happy cap. We will start to grow more soon, but now the most important thing is to secure the surrounding land with those warriors and minimize barb spawn.
9) move warrior up N to 1NW to check for food (there is food there) and back to copper to bust, which is better position since you spawnbusting sea tiles.
---I have not reconciled the settling pattern for the N yet. I think a couple of cities can go up there and copper is obviously something you like to have, but I'm not sure the priority right now since it is a bit up there..you need more workers and roads before all that.
- Horse archers may be a good option here and you should be able to beat GK to them well before he brings Keshiks online. Zara generally a pretty nice fella, so no short term concerns, although you may want his land later. Ideally, I would rather not focus you on a HA rush, but GK can start to be a pain from either an attack or rapid expansion with his IMP trait
- I'm inclined to head to Alpha quickly after AH to backfill some techs and then to HBR to neuter GK. You'll probably want to start thinking Library in Delhi soon, but you need probably 2 more settlers and that granary first.
10) yeah, finish gold mine and might as well road for the extra happy. you want Bombay growing on that gold mine asap. worker can then move to forest just N of Bombay and start chopping immediately into granary to help finish that asap
(Note: Worker management is a very important part of advanced play. Knowing when and what to improve, when and when not to road, and making the best use of worker movement. This includes doing 1/2 build roads on tiles when moving from Point A to point B where the distance is 2 moves. Thus, you can use half move of worker to laid down a road or even another improvement like a cottage if that is suited to the city. With that said, you may have noticed that India has the "Fast Worker" with 3 moves. Just so you know this Unique Unit is considered by many to be one of the very top UUs. There's a reason for this. For one, the worker unit is the most important unit in the game. Understanding why is part of you learning process. Do not take workers and worker turns lightly) The bottom line is that the Fast Worker gets you more stuff more soonerer..and that is what this game is all about. Get stuff running sooner and it snowballs later
11) Lastly, run 1 turn of 100% tax, taking your research slider to 0, then back to 100% research to finish AH. we'll talk more about this method later on.
I guess for you guys, so you can see the entire map + resources, etc.. I think I figured it out with FoV and still seeing my cities borders, etc..
Now to answer your questions/help
1.)Trade route was established because they share a river tiles and the road leads from the rice "to" the water and since Bombay is also attached to that fresh water tile it gives me the trade route.
-Correct?
2.)FGH to the direct west of Delhi right? Yeah, I didn't even see that one to be honest while I was searching around.
3.)Bombay does have the rice shared with Delhi since I built the road on the rice tile.
4.)Change warrior to Settler, Chop with a worker; get back to 4 with warrior queue; grab the 2 corn tiles and take off the rice tile and use the 2F1H tile next to Delhi; get up to 70H then whip and build granary when settler finishes.
5.)No Change for cows/gold
6.)E warrior on hill moved 1N to hill tile on east side of the map.
7.)Moved warrior down SW up NE through ivory tiles to settle on the hill SW of Bombay which should give enough area to keep barbs from spawning outside of Bombay
8.)No change here - shouldn't you build roads when you run out of things to build in your area?
9.)Moved warrior up north, 1NW to check for food, will move back next to copper to keep area open.
10.)Finished mine and road.
11.)No clue what this even means. I know what you are telling me to do, just not sure what's going on with this strategy.
So basically what I am learning here is that you need to take things slowly and think through 2-3 turns ahead in the beginning at least. Get at least another city going by about 3-4 capital pop, whip out a settler and settle near your capital to share resources if need be. It's probably best to get 3-4 cities out if you can without crippling economy or not having a few military units to protect.
I think I am getting the hang of this. Still having fun though.
Now to answer your questions/help
1.)Trade route was established because they share a river tiles and the road leads from the rice "to" the water and since Bombay is also attached to that fresh water tile it gives me the trade route.
-Correct?
2.)FGH to the direct west of Delhi right? Yeah, I didn't even see that one to be honest while I was searching around.
3.)Bombay does have the rice shared with Delhi since I built the road on the rice tile.
4.)Change warrior to Settler, Chop with a worker; get back to 4 with warrior queue; grab the 2 corn tiles and take off the rice tile and use the 2F1H tile next to Delhi; get up to 70H then whip and build granary when settler finishes.
5.)No Change for cows/gold
6.)E warrior on hill moved 1N to hill tile on east side of the map.
7.)Moved warrior down SW up NE through ivory tiles to settle on the hill SW of Bombay which should give enough area to keep barbs from spawning outside of Bombay
8.)No change here - shouldn't you build roads when you run out of things to build in your area?
9.)Moved warrior up north, 1NW to check for food, will move back next to copper to keep area open.
10.)Finished mine and road.
11.)No clue what this even means. I know what you are telling me to do, just not sure what's going on with this strategy.
So basically what I am learning here is that you need to take things slowly and think through 2-3 turns ahead in the beginning at least. Get at least another city going by about 3-4 capital pop, whip out a settler and settle near your capital to share resources if need be. It's probably best to get 3-4 cities out if you can without crippling economy or not having a few military units to protect.
I think I am getting the hang of this. Still having fun though.
Figured out how to make it so you can still see my boarders and all the resource tiles..
Is there any way to make the other Civ borders bolder or darker so that I can see them easier? Green on Green kind of sucks lol...
Also, circled in red, is this where I would see my "70H" into the settler thing? Because if so, I am at 14... Also, I never got a chance to whip the settler at all? I went ahead a couple of turns, nothing major, I'm going to reload my save on T39 and do the steps again, but... it looks like GK settles his city 3W of my northern corn and it also looks like he has horses already in the SE corner of the fog that I can see..
Is there any way to make the other Civ borders bolder or darker so that I can see them easier? Green on Green kind of sucks lol...
Also, circled in red, is this where I would see my "70H" into the settler thing? Because if so, I am at 14... Also, I never got a chance to whip the settler at all? I went ahead a couple of turns, nothing major, I'm going to reload my save on T39 and do the steps again, but... it looks like GK settles his city 3W of my northern corn and it also looks like he has horses already in the SE corner of the fog that I can see..
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Sorry, what I meant is Bombay should be using the rice now
Nothing you can really do about the color. Byzantines have the worst. However, if you zoom out to globe view and choose the culture button above the mini-map you can see borders
Do not go to 70H into settler or that makes it a 1 pop whip. Note my comments on whipping above and read it now and then as you progress. I realize it is a lot to digest right now, but it will come eventually. The overflow (OF) from the whip should go directly into a worker, then finish what I assume is still the queued warrior and start granary.
yeah, the whole slider thing is a bit complex for you right now, so don't get too caught up on it. I having you go 100% tax to raise some gold, then run 100% research the next turn and you should have enough to finish out AH at 100%. Slider is something you want to learn about eventually, but we'll just guide you for now.
Trust me, your workers have plenty to do other than buildings roads, but you can balance this to the size of your cities - which right now will be between 2 to 5 total, so it not like you need to improve every tile for a some time. However, there is chopping you can do and you CAN preroad a new city spot once identified.
(note: a city settled next to an adjacent roaded tiles that connects to the overall trade network to the capital gives an immediate trade route. The road must be there first though)
Yep, you linked Delhi and Bombay via the river connection and the 1 road that linked Delhi to the river. Trade routes can be connected via river and even coast within cultural borders prior to Fishing and Sailing respectively. This is important to note, as again, it helps you manage worker turns so as not to put those turns into something otherwise not needed
Nothing you can really do about the color. Byzantines have the worst. However, if you zoom out to globe view and choose the culture button above the mini-map you can see borders
Do not go to 70H into settler or that makes it a 1 pop whip. Note my comments on whipping above and read it now and then as you progress. I realize it is a lot to digest right now, but it will come eventually. The overflow (OF) from the whip should go directly into a worker, then finish what I assume is still the queued warrior and start granary.
yeah, the whole slider thing is a bit complex for you right now, so don't get too caught up on it. I having you go 100% tax to raise some gold, then run 100% research the next turn and you should have enough to finish out AH at 100%. Slider is something you want to learn about eventually, but we'll just guide you for now.
Trust me, your workers have plenty to do other than buildings roads, but you can balance this to the size of your cities - which right now will be between 2 to 5 total, so it not like you need to improve every tile for a some time. However, there is chopping you can do and you CAN preroad a new city spot once identified.
(note: a city settled next to an adjacent roaded tiles that connects to the overall trade network to the capital gives an immediate trade route. The road must be there first though)
Yep, you linked Delhi and Bombay via the river connection and the 1 road that linked Delhi to the river. Trade routes can be connected via river and even coast within cultural borders prior to Fishing and Sailing respectively. This is important to note, as again, it helps you manage worker turns so as not to put those turns into something otherwise not needed
Oh ok, I thought we needed to whip a settler... Yeah GK settled right on my borders 3W of my north corn and he has horses already.
I'm thinking settling third city 1W of the copper so I can BFC the fish and the sheep as well.
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I'm thinking settling third city 1W of the copper so I can BFC the fish and the sheep as well.
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what you see in the red circled area is your total production your city is producing this turn into your settler. To see the production into the Settler hover your cursor over the production bar just to the right there. (if you haven't yet realized it, your total production into the settler is a combo of food and hammers. Workers and Settlers are the only units that are built with food as well as hammers. this is just one reason in this game that FOOD=Production and why FOOD is so important as is Slavery)
Again, to 2 pop whip you must be at least size 4. You can only whip no more than half your population. I usually either 4>2 whip a settler or 6>3 whip a settler depending on timings and food and growth potential.
6>3 settler = <40H into Settler (39H gives most OF)
4>2 settler = >=40H and <70H into Settler (69H gives most OF)
again, each citizen is worth 30H straight up. So whipping 2 citizens equals 60H
so, for instance on a 4>2 whip of a settler that costs 100H:
settler 100H
total production into settler 69H
2 whipped citizens = 60H
60+69=129 into settler on final turn
129-100= 29H of overflow into next item built
Again, to 2 pop whip you must be at least size 4. You can only whip no more than half your population. I usually either 4>2 whip a settler or 6>3 whip a settler depending on timings and food and growth potential.
6>3 settler = <40H into Settler (39H gives most OF)
4>2 settler = >=40H and <70H into Settler (69H gives most OF)
again, each citizen is worth 30H straight up. So whipping 2 citizens equals 60H
so, for instance on a 4>2 whip of a settler that costs 100H:
settler 100H
total production into settler 69H
2 whipped citizens = 60H
60+69=129 into settler on final turn
129-100= 29H of overflow into next item built
TalladegaKnight
King
Comments in Blue. Worker management is so important. It will be the thing that will level you faster than anything. If possible your worker should finish a turn doing something like farming, roading, etc. Don't forget to cancel his orders if you are moving him somewhere though.
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ah..TK..thanks for mentioning the city tile thing. Sometimes I forget and just make assumptions. Cox may not have known he can switch the tiles between the cities yet. Cox - you can do this by going into the city screen in Bombay and taking the rice tile from Delhi by clicking on it. This is something you may do often in the future with city overlap.
Yes, I like a city 1SW of cow E of Bombay. Preroad it now and 2 workers can tag team. 1 to start cows and another to chop a forest for the monument so horse and flood plains are picked up. I like this city next best.
GK city is stupid...He settled there in my test of your game too. Funny thing is Delhi's borders will pickup the cows there, so you can actually settle that city 4th next to the gold and the cows will be available immediately for that city. You will likely kill GK anyway and probably raze that city.
I think copper can probably after that once you have more workers and can spare turns to road up there first. Probably 2 cities to the north but haven't worked that out yet. (there's some decent land and resources to the southwest but a lot of jungle so doesn't do much for you near term.
Yes, I like a city 1SW of cow E of Bombay. Preroad it now and 2 workers can tag team. 1 to start cows and another to chop a forest for the monument so horse and flood plains are picked up. I like this city next best.
GK city is stupid...He settled there in my test of your game too. Funny thing is Delhi's borders will pickup the cows there, so you can actually settle that city 4th next to the gold and the cows will be available immediately for that city. You will likely kill GK anyway and probably raze that city.
I think copper can probably after that once you have more workers and can spare turns to road up there first. Probably 2 cities to the north but haven't worked that out yet. (there's some decent land and resources to the southwest but a lot of jungle so doesn't do much for you near term.
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