Glorious People's Republic of Seattle Declared

minimum wage? y/n?


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Azale

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http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27742426

6 June 2014 Last updated at 17:48 ET

Seattle takes a minimum-wage leap

Washington, DC

Seattle City Council has raised its minimum hourly wage to $15 (£9), setting the city on the path to providing workers within its jurisdiction with the highest such rate in the country.

The increase will roll out in increments, reaching the new level in 2017. Behind the local celebration of the new wage standard, however, a larger national debate continues over the economic rationale behind minimum-wage increases - particularly ones enacted on a municipal level, since prospects for a nationwide wage increase seem dim.

Last year, Seattle fast food workers walked out on their shifts and began a strike to protest against low wages, sparking a citywide movement to increase Seattle's lowest wage. The strike began at the same time as the Seattle mayoral race, eventually becoming a centrepiece in the city's elections - a voting platform that candidates, like the current mayor Ed Murray, could not ignore.

In the neighbouring city of Seatac, voters in November approved a ballot measure raising its own minimum wage to $15. After he was elected into office the same month, Mr Murray stayed true to one of his principle campaign promises and successfully pushed for an increase.

As local politicians celebrated their legislative success, however, outside critics, like chairman and editor-in-chief of Forbes magazine Steve Forbes, have voiced their views on the increase, arguing that this policy shift represents a negative turn for the city.

Forbes argued that Seattle was "wounding itself" by raising the minimum wage. The increase, he writes, "will destroy jobs, especially for young people, and bankrupt numerous small businesses that operate on tight profit margins".

Despite these potential consequences, he concedes that Seattle's decision to raise the minimum wage reflects "the frustrations and anger that erupt when an economy is stagnant".

"Seattle will say goodbye to many of its low-skilled workers, most of whom serve the retail and leisure and hospitality sector," former chief economist of the Department of Labor Diana Furchtgott-Roth writes in the New York Times.

With the potential loss of low-skill jobs, others argue that the minimum wage increase could lead to a larger economic equality gap as unskilled workers in Seattle could face challenges in finding work.

"It will deepen the tendency towards labour market polarization as a non-trivial number of workers, starting with those who command a market wage of $9.32 or less, will find themselves locked out of formal employment," writes Reihan Salam for the National Review.

Aside from the growing online debate, some critics are taking their complaints to the courthouse. The Washington DC-based International Franchise Association plans to sue the city of Seattle as a result of the minimum wage hike. The association views that the increase is discriminatory because it requires smaller, franchise businesses to raise wages for their workers at the same rate as big businesses.

Supporters counter that the minimum wage increase will not hurt businesses, but rather attract workers to Seattle, thus fostering a stronger standard of living.

Former Clinton administration Secretary of Labour Robert Reich says that higher wages will bring more workers into the workforce, including some who wouldn't have been interested in the previously lower wages.

"That means they'll end up with workers who are highly reliable and likely to stay longer, resulting in real savings," he writes in the New York Times.

Additionally, Reich says, it's not just workers who will benefit from the increase in minimum wage:

More money in the pockets of low-wage workers means more sales, especially in the locales they live in - which in turn creates faster growth and more jobs. A major reason the current economic recovery is anaemic is that so many Americans lack the purchasing power to get the economy moving again.

Taking on trickle-down economists who champion economic policies supporting the rich rather than the poor, Seattle entrepreneur Nick Hanauer says that this increase will help further the already thriving economy of Seattle.

"A city in which restaurants pay workers enough so that they can afford to eat in restaurants, doesn't have fewer restaurants. It has more of them," he writes for the New York Times. "A $15-an-hour wage isn't a risky and untried policy in Seattle. It is the natural evolution of common-sense economic thinking."

As the debate comes to a head, perhaps only time will tell if the minimum-wage hike was a good decision for Seattle and potentially for other cities that are considering similar minimum wage increases.

As Quartz's Tim Fernholz points out, Seattle's minimum wage increase is not only unprecedented in the United States (outside of little Seatac), it would be the highest effective rate across the globe as well. Last month Swiss voters could have set the record with the equivalent of a $25 (£15) minimum wage, but they overwhelmingly rejected the measure.

It's impossible to fully predict the greater effects that the increase may have on the city and the globe.

That said, it's difficult to deny that Seattle will present a good opportunity as a petri dish for economists and politicians alike to gain a new understanding of the real-life effects of raising minimum wage.

(By Annie P Waldman)

What say you, CFC commentariat?

Beyond arguing whether the minimum wage increase is a good or bad thing (which is definitely an important debate), another question is sortve assumed at the end of the BBC article. Is Seattle REALLY a good "petri dish" to see the effects of minimum wage? Don't many developed countries operate with a similarly high minimum wage, like Australia?

It feels like there will be excuses made if Seattle succeeds, but not if it fails.
 
Seattle is one of the most common cities thrown out there as "unnecessarily expensive in the United States". I spent two weeks in Seattle last month and as a Canadian I felt it was very affordable and with their higher than average minimum wage compared to the rest of the USA it seemed like a fantastic place to live. Excellent food prices, amazing views, great public transit, and the people are okay.

I'm glad to see that this passed. The reason I feel it's a great experiment is because this is focused solely on Seattle, not the rest of Washington. Many people feel that it will cause businesses to flock to places like Renton and White Center (hahahahaha), but I personally think this won't happen. There's a reason businesses aren't already there. This is a gradual change and it's not like the wage is increasing by $5 overnight.

I think this can work, and I hope Washington State follows through with its own wage increases as it's discovered Seattle didn't die because poor people are less poor. The Pacific Northwest is a beautiful place with a completely different atmosphere than the east coast and if an experiment such as this is going to work, I feel that Seattle would be the perfect place to do so.

I pity the people who whine that they worked hard to get to their $15/hr wage and now the "worthless" are just as valuable as them. It is people like you who caused a "surprising" change like this to be even necessary. Get off your high horse and take a look at the bigger picture. It was bad that you had to work so hard to have a somewhat livable wage, not great. Promoting the viewpoint that others should have to experience the same misery and challenges as you did simply because you experienced them before they did seems... a little narrow-minded and perhaps a bit sadistic.
 
This is pretty great news and I hope this starts the ball rolling to increase the federal minimum wage to something at least approaching appropriate and then peg it to inflation permanently.

Also, can we call Seattle either Seattlestan or Cobainia?
 
... increase the federal minimum wage to something at least approaching appropriate and then peg it to inflation permanently.

Why do you hate America so much? Didn't you know that the minimum wage isn't meant to let someone provide for themselves (and potentially some dependents) adequately? :mad: It's for them damn worthless teens and the middle aged druggies!
 
Someone has to look out for the lowlifes! :mad:

:lol: This country is rich enough that no one should have to work for less than a livable wage. We can easily afford it and I feel strongly that paying a hire minimum wage will cause job growth and the economy to grow instead of shrink as more money is taken out of the hands of the ultra wealthy and into the pockets of the working class who can then afford to spend more and thus create more jobs. We also need more and stronger unions in this country.
 
It will be interesting to watch, for sure. I'm not sure I know enough about the specifics of Seattle (their cots of living, their industries, their labor distribution), etc to know if it will work *there*, as opposed to somewhere else.

It's worth a shot though. 15 feels a little high to me, at least all at once, but I could be wrong.
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27742426



What say you, CFC commentariat?

Beyond arguing whether the minimum wage increase is a good or bad thing (which is definitely an important debate), another question is sortve assumed at the end of the BBC article. Is Seattle REALLY a good "petri dish" to see the effects of minimum wage? Don't many developed countries operate with a similarly high minimum wage, like Australia?

It feels like there will be excuses made if Seattle succeeds, but not if it fails.

I'm hesitant to voice support for SA or Sawant. They're way too willing to accommodate the liberals, and in this case, let them hijack their own movements.

I'm also not convinced that minimum wage fights are good ground for us to be fighting on, either. We should be fighting battles that we can lead the charge in, battles that liberals can't engage in. Their economy of scale enables them to take the lead in this sort of issue; marriage equality is another. Sure, they're great things and all, but liberals are going to fight those fights regardless of our input or action, so cooperating with them really just wastes our time and risks a tailing strategy; see the CPUSA and FRSO for what happens when you start down that road...
 
Good thing it's not all at once then DT. ;)
Haha, you're totally right. Well, then it's potentially even more interesting! :lol:

We should be fighting battles that we can lead the charge in, battles that liberals can't engage in.

I'd actually kind of interested in what you mean by that, since I can't think of anything that might fit that off the top of my head that could also potentially provide a tangible benefit to anybody.
 
I would think that finding common cause with liberals might attract more people to communism or socialism. Shouldn't that be important for those respective parties? Agitating for things that the broader public doesn't necessarily care about instead of popular issues seems to be missed opportunities to grow your movement to me Cheezy. (not that I would know, mind you. and I could be misunderstanding you entirely)
 
I'm hesitant to voice support for SA or Sawant. They're way too willing to accommodate the liberals, and in this case, let them hijack their own movements.

I'm also not convinced that minimum wage fights are good ground for us to be fighting on, either. We should be fighting battles that we can lead the charge in, battles that liberals can't engage in. Their economy of scale enables them to take the lead in this sort of issue; marriage equality is another. Sure, they're great things and all, but liberals are going to fight those fights regardless of our input or action, so cooperating with them really just wastes our time and risks a tailing strategy; see the CPUSA and FRSO for what happens when you start down that road...

Can't make many defenses of SA since I'm mostly ignorant on their history (I know they supported Nader & OWS), but Sawant herself seems pretty unwilling to compromise to the Dems. IIRC, the $15 min wage was her main platform, a faster and higher min wage increase than Dems were promising. All the Seattle papers I'm reading say things to the effect that she "hijacked" the city's political priorities. She's also the one scaring the bejesus out of dems by rallying Boeing workers to seize their own workplaces from management.

At the end of the day though, she's just one councilwoman, likely to be voted out in the next election thanks to redistricting. She needs to gain some exposure for her ideals and her organization so she can take this show on the road, and I have tentative faith she won't "sell out" before then.

In general I think taking liberal platforms, cranking them up a notch, and claiming them for socialists can be a winning strategy. Poor across the world are afraid of chaos, whether it's coming from a professed revolutionary party in their interests or not. Lula learned this in Brazil, though I'm not advocating leftist parties all turn into the Brazilian PT (for various reasons).

I don't see a problem though in offering a platform that immediately affects people's material condition. Latching onto the back of an issue like minimum wage that is a popular issue without compromising the longer term goals of a socialist organization is totally possible, right? :p
 
Well since growth is next to godliness and you are bound to run out of other growth places...
 
Maybe trickle up will help with the slim profit margins.

The association views that the increase is discriminatory because it requires smaller, franchise businesses to raise wages for their workers at the same rate as big businesses.

Isn't this the opposite of discrimination?
 
Isn't this the opposite of discrimination?

The theory is that bigger businesses have the profit margin to deal with a wage increase while small businesses don't.

A little illogical, IMO, since most small businesses in Seattle pay above minimum wage already to attract attention from the bigger competition. That, and if a business is going to fold because of a small wage increase every year, then... their business model probably wasn't sustainable anyways.
 
The theory is that bigger businesses have the profit margin to deal with a wage increase while small businesses don't.

A little illogical, IMO, since most small businesses in Seattle pay above minimum wage already to attract attention from the bigger competition. That, and if a business is going to fold because of a small wage increase every year, then... their business model probably wasn't sustainable anyways.

I get that, but to discriminate is to make distinctions between things and usually the word's used to describe unjust and arbitrary distinctions that result in people being treated unfairly. In this case however, a lack of discrimination is what would theoretically result in an unfair outcome.
 
I'm pretty sure the Constitution says people who work at McDonalds are only 3/5 of a person.
 
Any business person that can't afford to pay $15 an hour is not skilled enough at business and should become an employee of someone with those skills.
 
I'd actually kind of interested in what you mean by that, since I can't think of anything that might fit that off the top of my head that could also potentially provide a tangible benefit to anybody.

Believe it or not, there are social issues which the Democrats are not capable of solving! :lol:

Distribution cooperatives, which replace capitalist markets in the production and distribution of commodities, in particular to the poor, but to everyone in general who participates; organizations which pressure distributors to lower prices, which includes governments for rent and utility prices; self-defense corps for oppressed minorities, in the manner of the Black Panthers; community services rather in the manner which RT provides (housing reconstruction and community renewal); more radical parts of minority, women's, LGBT, and indigenous issues which do not fit into the liberal market-oriented, capital-friendly programme (things like migrant rights and indigenous claims to land, as well as addressing the malfeasant nature of the treatment of both groups and their living accommodations).

In essence, all issues which liberals are not politically capable of tackling, because of whose interests they primarily serve (the middle and upper classes). Raising the minimum wage is just easy, it's something a lot of people want and which doesn't hurt capital in the long run at all, so why not give it to them? Not that they didn't try to water it down to a pathetic $10.10 anyway...

I would think that finding common cause with liberals might attract more people to communism or socialism. Shouldn't that be important for those respective parties? Agitating for things that the broader public doesn't necessarily care about instead of popular issues seems to be missed opportunities to grow your movement to me Cheezy. (not that I would know, mind you. and I could be misunderstanding you entirely)

If your choice is between a liberal party and a communist party, and they're offering the exact same thing, then why pick the communist party?

We don't really want people who are comfortable with the Democrats, we want people disaffected by them. You don't prove you're different by fighting the exact same battles as them, which in the end they will take credit for, not us.

Can't make many defenses of SA since I'm mostly ignorant on their history (I know they supported Nader & OWS), but Sawant herself seems pretty unwilling to compromise to the Dems. IIRC, the $15 min wage was her main platform, a faster and higher min wage increase than Dems were promising. All the Seattle papers I'm reading say things to the effect that she "hijacked" the city's political priorities. She's also the one scaring the bejesus out of dems by rallying Boeing workers to seize their own workplaces from management.

That Boeing trick did impress me, I didn't expect that out of an elected socialist. Still, her class analysis could be better. And when she talks, she just sounds very...liberal to me, and that gives me an icky feeling.

At the end of the day though, she's just one councilwoman, likely to be voted out in the next election thanks to redistricting. She needs to gain some exposure for her ideals and her organization so she can take this show on the road, and I have tentative faith she won't "sell out" before then.

Which is why I don't overtly oppose her, either. I understand the importance of a bully pulpit. But I don't want people getting the idea that "see, elections can work, we just need to work harder at it" is any sort of communist solution.

In general I think taking liberal platforms, cranking them up a notch, and claiming them for socialists can be a winning strategy. Poor across the world are afraid of chaos, whether it's coming from a professed revolutionary party in their interests or not. Lula learned this in Brazil, though I'm not advocating leftist parties all turn into the Brazilian PT (for various reasons).

I don't see a problem though in offering a platform that immediately affects people's material condition. Latching onto the back of an issue like minimum wage that is a popular issue without compromising the longer term goals of a socialist organization is totally possible, right? :p

Just because you don't come out in support of something doesn't mean you're against it. If workers win higher wages, that's good for them. But I won't be wasting my time and effort with the issue when the Democrats are perfectly capable of winning the fight without me.

What our communist parties need is a mass line, and part of building and maintaining such a line is digesting issues that the people care about in Marxist framing, and then addressing those issues politically. That can involve a bit of electoral participation on a tactical level, yes; but critical to the mass line, like the popular front, is that we don't tail the proletariat or liberal parties, and we don't get involved in issues or coalitions that we are incapable of leading and controlling. It might sound crass, but if you aren't the lead dog, then the view is always the same. We can't direct the masses toward revolution if we don't have control over where the political manifestation of the masses demands is going, and if we don't have that control, then we get led along with them to wherever whomever is leading them wants to take us. If it's liberal parties, that means we go toward capitalist accommodationism, which you can find a lot of right on this forum from any of our outspoken anti-communist liberals. And if it's other parties, then it can be even worse.

That's why I scowl at these communists who think they're advancing their cause by associating with liberal parties on these issues. They're committing political suicide.
 
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