Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
So...is that a yes to a pre-build for an Army?
Goz-12 - 5CC - Large map - Space Race
- Thread starter gozpel
- Start date
I don't remember having the capability to build a army. Heroic epic was in the capital. If you can build armies I would so we can use a MGL to finish production.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I thought so too and maybe I didn't look close enough but the Heroic Epic was in the capital when I looked.I thought that was why we built the MA?
zerksees
in remission
With all the longbows, maybe we could put our elite units to work and get a leader and build an army with that. If that is the case you could use the sword army to death. As insurance, you could start the palace pre-build and switch it to army (or maybe TOE if we get the army from a leader).
If you raze a couple Russian cities check in with Cathy and see what they will offer for peace. Against Russia avoid military alliances as we want to get out when it benefits us the most.
If you raze a couple Russian cities check in with Cathy and see what they will offer for peace. Against Russia avoid military alliances as we want to get out when it benefits us the most.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I'm 5 turns in, and I've paused for advice.
Cathy predictably DOW'd on turn 1, when asked to leave. All of a sudden I've got all this gpt accumulating. I figured that accumulating that much Wealth was unhealthy in a dangerous World, so my plan was to self-research Industrialization while beating-up Cathy for (hopefully) Electricity.
Now, on turn 5, Cathy has already had enough; I've destroyed 2 cities, and I'm ready to destroy St. Pete's next turn. I could probably take 2 or 3 more before my turns were up.
She would give Industrialization (which we will have in 10 turns if we continue to self research) for 75gpt and Peace;
She would give Electricity for 160gpt and Peace.
My instincts say to carry on, if necessary in to Zerksees turns, until she will give Electricity for a sensible price (ie 'free'); militarily, we have the beating of them.
Any comments?
Cathy predictably DOW'd on turn 1, when asked to leave. All of a sudden I've got all this gpt accumulating. I figured that accumulating that much Wealth was unhealthy in a dangerous World, so my plan was to self-research Industrialization while beating-up Cathy for (hopefully) Electricity.
Now, on turn 5, Cathy has already had enough; I've destroyed 2 cities, and I'm ready to destroy St. Pete's next turn. I could probably take 2 or 3 more before my turns were up.
She would give Industrialization (which we will have in 10 turns if we continue to self research) for 75gpt and Peace;
She would give Electricity for 160gpt and Peace.
My instincts say to carry on, if necessary in to Zerksees turns, until she will give Electricity for a sensible price (ie 'free'); militarily, we have the beating of them.
Any comments?
zerksees
in remission
My suggestion: Whack the next city, take the deal for electricity, and we can get her to DOW again next time she steps on our land. If she ups the price for electricity after the city is taken, just keep going after her.
I would prefer to minimize the damage to her until we catch up to her in tech. We don't want her getting killed off as long as she could be a source of techs to us.
I don't mind building gold - keep in mind we will need around 2000 for careful steals. It is a chance I think we have to take.
I would prefer to minimize the damage to her until we catch up to her in tech. We don't want her getting killed off as long as she could be a source of techs to us.
I don't mind building gold - keep in mind we will need around 2000 for careful steals. It is a chance I think we have to take.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I've 4 turns of beakers invested in Industrialization, does that effect the price of a steal?
zerksees
in remission
No it does not change the price AFAIK. We'll steal something else - like scientific method (assuming we make the deal for electricity). The beakers invested will either get us industrialization at a discount or we'll just finish it.
Bucephalus I think you know my general approach to acquiring techs from behind - buy them or steal them. I really should add pointy stick research to the approach - since it is effective and I do not do it often enough. If I am near caught up in tech that is when I self-research - try for something the others do not have and trade it away.
I do not think we have wasted those beakers - I just think the other methods are more effective use of the gold. There is a risk holding the gold but, since we have been holding our own and building military I think it will be easier to stand up to a ridiculous demand from an AI. I have yet to see one of those, since they are busy fighting each other. Plus I think it is necessary to take some chances in 5CC Deity
I also disagree with the short rushing, since I think we need that gold for techs. I should have spoken up about this sooner. I am trusting Whomp's experience that this is good, though I have a hard time understanding the benefit in my mind. I'd rather put the gold to research.
Bucephalus I think you know my general approach to acquiring techs from behind - buy them or steal them. I really should add pointy stick research to the approach - since it is effective and I do not do it often enough. If I am near caught up in tech that is when I self-research - try for something the others do not have and trade it away.
I do not think we have wasted those beakers - I just think the other methods are more effective use of the gold. There is a risk holding the gold but, since we have been holding our own and building military I think it will be easier to stand up to a ridiculous demand from an AI. I have yet to see one of those, since they are busy fighting each other. Plus I think it is necessary to take some chances in 5CC Deity
I also disagree with the short rushing, since I think we need that gold for techs. I should have spoken up about this sooner. I am trusting Whomp's experience that this is good, though I have a hard time understanding the benefit in my mind. I'd rather put the gold to research.
To me there's very little risk holding gold because I got a demand from Germany for 84g and a TM. A miniscule amount, really.
I would continue to pound Russia till the price comes down and then steal from them afterwards. The Babs at some point should be an option too. If we can grab ToE it would be huge for us.
On short rushing, it was only for hospitals and cathedrals. The other benefit is it evens out the shields to round numbers (40s, 80s on the way to 160s) which wastes less that way. When we were doing 33spt rushing a 40s item only costs 28g. By knocking off 3-4 turns from the hospitals we were at size 13 the turn after finishing. That immediately added additional gpt to our coffers. The cathedral was needed because of border expansion.
I would continue to pound Russia till the price comes down and then steal from them afterwards. The Babs at some point should be an option too. If we can grab ToE it would be huge for us.
On short rushing, it was only for hospitals and cathedrals. The other benefit is it evens out the shields to round numbers (40s, 80s on the way to 160s) which wastes less that way. When we were doing 33spt rushing a 40s item only costs 28g. By knocking off 3-4 turns from the hospitals we were at size 13 the turn after finishing. That immediately added additional gpt to our coffers. The cathedral was needed because of border expansion.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Yeah, I should know by now, shouldn't I? I thought it might make it more likely to get Industrialization for Peace; it never occured to me that we'd get Electricity from them, and after so few turns. Error of judgement, sorry.
zerksees
in remission
My point is don't pound on them too hard or they will get wiped out before we catch up. Maybe I am too concerned about that.Whomp said:
Agreed that TOE would be big - any tech steal should probably be for sci method. I would put TOE ahead of the army and switch the palace pre-build to TOE as soon as we acquire sci method.
We are definitely still in this game.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Pre-turn:
Switch Rojo to Palace pre-build for an Army.
I can only ask Cathy to leave, unfortunately; and they look to be heading away from our territory.
Move H'wacha's in to position.
Enter:
Babylon/ Germany MA Aztecs;
Deal for Horses expires;
Russian units move further in to our territory;
1255 AD:
I issue ultimatum to Cathy; she DOW's upon us, and returns our gpt payments.
I assumed it was a bad idea to accumulate too much gold, so I've upped the Slider for Industrialization (14), hoping to get Electricity from Cathy.
Upgrade a couple of Horses.
Attack Russian units, kill 2 Rifles, 4 LB's (6-0)
IBT:
Russia/ Celts MA Byz;
Russia settles new city near to where Reading used to be;
1260 AD:
Move units next to 'Murmansk';
IBT:
USA/ Byz MA Russia;
Aztecs complete Universal Sufferage;
1265 AD:
Destroy 'Murmansk'
Move units to 'Irkutsk';
IBT:
Babylon immediately send a Settler through German RR's; they will cut my lines of supply if they found in the wrong place;
1270 AD:
Destroy 'Irkutsk';
Advance on St. Pete's;
IBT:
Celts can't afford our Iron, renegotiate for 32 gpt as it's the only deal on offer.
4 Russian Rifles and a LB are pushing in to our territory;
1275 AD:
Continue to advance to St. Pete's
IBT:
Russians push further in;
1280 AD:
Bombard Russian stack down to yellow; do not attack.
Move stack next to St. Pete's;
Pause here to post; Cathy will give Industrialization for Peace + 75 gpt, or Electricity for 175 gpt;
Slider back to zero;
IBT:
Russia/ Aztecs DOW Germany;
Lose Elite Spear, guarding Horses;
1285 AD:
Destroy St. Pete's, killing 3; kill 4 Rifles, 4 LB's; (17 - 1);
Cathy will now give Electricity for 145gpt;
I'm going to give it one more turn; I figure the price may come down if I have a stack of Cavalry outside some city gate, and there is a lame stack in our territory just begging to give us a MGL;
IBT:
Germans heading through our territory;
1290 AD:
Kill 7 more Rifles, 4 LB's; (28 - 1)
Move Cav to within attack distance of their Capital;
Cathy will give Electricity for Peace and 135gpt; I accept.
Sell Electricity to Byz for 60gpt, 110g, Monarchy;
IBT:
Bit of German troop movement.
1295 AD:
Cathy boots us out, saving a good few moves.
IBT:
Babylon demands TM, and 85g. Reluctantly cave.....Grrr
1300 AD:
Worker stuff.
End notes:
Electricity gained for a net 75gpt hopefully makes up for wasted research.
A decision needs to be made about the Army pre-build in 3 turns unless we want a Palace in Rojo.
All cities now making just over 20 shields, except Seoul which gives a Cav every three.
I failed to note individual city builds, but it was a mix of Cav, Rifles and Arty.
Most currently worked tiles are RR'd;
We ended up with another 10 slaves;
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/38078/GOZ12_Buce_1300_AD.SAV
Switch Rojo to Palace pre-build for an Army.
I can only ask Cathy to leave, unfortunately; and they look to be heading away from our territory.
Move H'wacha's in to position.
Enter:
Babylon/ Germany MA Aztecs;
Deal for Horses expires;
Russian units move further in to our territory;
1255 AD:
I issue ultimatum to Cathy; she DOW's upon us, and returns our gpt payments.
I assumed it was a bad idea to accumulate too much gold, so I've upped the Slider for Industrialization (14), hoping to get Electricity from Cathy.
Upgrade a couple of Horses.
Attack Russian units, kill 2 Rifles, 4 LB's (6-0)
IBT:
Russia/ Celts MA Byz;
Russia settles new city near to where Reading used to be;
1260 AD:
Move units next to 'Murmansk';
IBT:
USA/ Byz MA Russia;
Aztecs complete Universal Sufferage;
1265 AD:
Destroy 'Murmansk'
Move units to 'Irkutsk';
IBT:
Babylon immediately send a Settler through German RR's; they will cut my lines of supply if they found in the wrong place;
1270 AD:
Destroy 'Irkutsk';
Advance on St. Pete's;
IBT:
Celts can't afford our Iron, renegotiate for 32 gpt as it's the only deal on offer.
4 Russian Rifles and a LB are pushing in to our territory;
1275 AD:
Continue to advance to St. Pete's
IBT:
Russians push further in;
1280 AD:
Bombard Russian stack down to yellow; do not attack.
Move stack next to St. Pete's;
Pause here to post; Cathy will give Industrialization for Peace + 75 gpt, or Electricity for 175 gpt;
Slider back to zero;
IBT:
Russia/ Aztecs DOW Germany;
Lose Elite Spear, guarding Horses;
1285 AD:
Destroy St. Pete's, killing 3; kill 4 Rifles, 4 LB's; (17 - 1);
Cathy will now give Electricity for 145gpt;
I'm going to give it one more turn; I figure the price may come down if I have a stack of Cavalry outside some city gate, and there is a lame stack in our territory just begging to give us a MGL;
IBT:
Germans heading through our territory;
1290 AD:
Kill 7 more Rifles, 4 LB's; (28 - 1)
Move Cav to within attack distance of their Capital;
Cathy will give Electricity for Peace and 135gpt; I accept.
Sell Electricity to Byz for 60gpt, 110g, Monarchy;
IBT:
Bit of German troop movement.
1295 AD:
Cathy boots us out, saving a good few moves.
IBT:
Babylon demands TM, and 85g. Reluctantly cave.....Grrr
1300 AD:
Worker stuff.
End notes:
Electricity gained for a net 75gpt hopefully makes up for wasted research.
A decision needs to be made about the Army pre-build in 3 turns unless we want a Palace in Rojo.
All cities now making just over 20 shields, except Seoul which gives a Cav every three.
I failed to note individual city builds, but it was a mix of Cav, Rifles and Arty.
Most currently worked tiles are RR'd;
We ended up with another 10 slaves;
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/38078/GOZ12_Buce_1300_AD.SAV
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
3 turns away, could probably make it 4 if we mm for fewer shields.
Can't hit Cathy without losing Rep; however she is at war with Germany, so she may tresspass at some stage.
Babs still have a ROP with Germany, so it would be messy at the moment. Cathy is probably good for one more tech yet, but I think she may be the next to fold, so it's just a question of timing with the Babs.
Zerksees is probably sharpening his Sword as we speak!
zerksees
in remission
Something needs to be done about the Bab-German friendship 
A good pair of trades, and excellent kill ratio.
I got it.
A good pair of trades, and excellent kill ratio.
I got it.
zerksees
in remission
Pre-flight:
-Careful steals look to be about 2700. This will take abot 14 turns to get that much money. We had better make the corporation a priority tech
-Celts are weakening and about to join the "meek" in my book
-We should start building roads to Iro cities on the border just in case. Also might consider some forests in key border territories to keep the German cavs out of our cities (in case they attack)
-The palace is due in 3 and the army can't get back that fast. MM to finish palace in 4 and start move of army to get back (so it can be disbanded in a city to get the shields)
- How are we going to win this game?
IBT
Seoul: cav-> rifle
Turn 1 - 1305 AD
RR a few more tiles
Retrieving the army and our Hwacha stack. Put the army in Bab territory and hope we don't get kicked back (slow news day)
IBT
Byz and Aztecs make peace
Babs kick out our army, and luckily it lands closer to our territory
Russians lose their latest border town (auto raze) and Bryansk - both to Germans
Score: Hittites - behind us; Korea 1041; France 1296; England 1637; America 1654 IIRC
Turn 2 - 1310 AD
With some luck our army does make it home and is disbanded in Nampo - hospital will finish in 1 - MM a couple citizens to food and hosp will still finish in 1. Sadly our new army is due in 6. Will have to tread lightly until then.
Only had about 45 minutes last night... more to come
-Careful steals look to be about 2700. This will take abot 14 turns to get that much money. We had better make the corporation a priority tech
-Celts are weakening and about to join the "meek" in my book
-We should start building roads to Iro cities on the border just in case. Also might consider some forests in key border territories to keep the German cavs out of our cities (in case they attack)
-The palace is due in 3 and the army can't get back that fast. MM to finish palace in 4 and start move of army to get back (so it can be disbanded in a city to get the shields)
- How are we going to win this game?
IBT
Seoul: cav-> rifle
Turn 1 - 1305 AD
RR a few more tiles
Retrieving the army and our Hwacha stack. Put the army in Bab territory and hope we don't get kicked back (slow news day)
IBT
Byz and Aztecs make peace
Babs kick out our army, and luckily it lands closer to our territory
Russians lose their latest border town (auto raze) and Bryansk - both to Germans
Score: Hittites - behind us; Korea 1041; France 1296; England 1637; America 1654 IIRC
Turn 2 - 1310 AD
With some luck our army does make it home and is disbanded in Nampo - hospital will finish in 1 - MM a couple citizens to food and hosp will still finish in 1. Sadly our new army is due in 6. Will have to tread lightly until then.
Only had about 45 minutes last night... more to come
zerksees
in remission
OK its turn 5 and I have had a revelation. The Iroquois have like 80000 gold and maybe 40 cities. How much is each city worth? Maybe 1500-2500? I think its time to take them on. Germany is the leader and already at war with everyone. I would also MA with Axtecs who are already at war with them. 4-5 cities would gross like 8000 gold (we would spend some for MAs).
I can't directly DOW Iroquois since I started a trade with them a couple turns ago. But I could use remove or declare or try a direct steal. The army will be done in 2 IIRC, so I could wait til then.
They have been at war a long time and so I am not expecting an attack surge.
Any objections or suggestions?
I can't directly DOW Iroquois since I started a trade with them a couple turns ago. But I could use remove or declare or try a direct steal. The army will be done in 2 IIRC, so I could wait til then.
They have been at war a long time and so I am not expecting an attack surge.
Any objections or suggestions?
SimpleMonkey
King
lurker's comment: Sounds brilliant. 
BTW, what was the shield-worth of the army? My understanding is that it's worth 100 when cashed in.
BTW, what was the shield-worth of the army? My understanding is that it's worth 100 when cashed in.Bring plenty of hwachas to the party since they have infantry but that seems like a very good idea Zerks. We may need to bring a few friends to the party and Germany, in particular, so they waste their GA on war.
