conehead234
Braves on the Warpath
Yup turn off the science slider. we can get our techs by extort.
GOZ3 -(Totally Barbaric)-C3C
- Thread starter gozpel
- Start date
akots
Poet
Server seems to be somewhat sick apparently. Getting SQL error all the time.
akots
Poet
IBT. Carthage goes back to settler factory. We need more cities IMO. Science goes down. Utica goes to worker, it is overpopulated and fairly corrupt. Rax can be whipped later on if needed. Moving warrior from Carthage to Utica. Theveste switched to galley. Oea warrior->worker. Spain decided to build Pyramids. Wow! Spain completed Colossus! WOW!
[1] 1125BC. All quiet. Built Embassy with Spain (36g) and Rome (35g) and Bismark (50g) and England (50g) effectively emptying the treasury.
IBT. Utica worker->rax.
[2] 1100BC. Workers move from L magna south for jungle and marshes. Germany has MapMaking. Rome as well.
[3] 1075BC. Some mm but not much. We are doing as good as we can considering our wonder city. Spain has Poly. Wow! IBT. Carthage settler->settler.
[4] 1050BC. Our small boat tries to navigate through ocean south of Spain. And does not sink this turn.
[5] 1025BC. We are seafaring after all! The boat sails further on. Theveste galley->galley.
[6] 1000BC. Ships sail. IBT. Heroic curragh sinks finally. Alas.
[7] 975BC. Workers go for marshes heavily and some for jungle. IBT. Carthage settler->settler, Sabratha rax-warrior, Rusicade worker->temple (?).
[8] 950BC. Settler goes somewhere in between Rome and Cumae. There is too much unclaimed space there IMO. Cadiz founded, set to warrior for now. Galley sailed to Shumer settler/enkidu pair. They are up HBR and Poly. Embassy with Shumeria. They have horses and iron. Their Pyramids are ready in 20 turns. Embassy to Hittites and their Pyramids are ready in 3 turns. Actually, MoM in L magna would be extremely useful. Well, nobody told me and I was stupid enough. Now we are 36 shields up and it would be not a good idea to waste them now. Anyhow, what is done is done.
IBT. L minor worker->worker (city is heavy on jungle). Oea worker->rax.
[9] 925BC. NM goes to scout the future city site. IBT. Mursilis comes and tries to extort Philosophy. Apparently, we dont want to give it away. So, we are in war now.
[10] 900BC. We met Portugal. They have HBR and Poly and some cash. Did not trade.
Several notes. Micromanagement between Carthage and L magna is important. L magna can build MoM easily and would be our wonder city. Though cascade is a big threat. Two workers south of gold mountain and clearing marshes for a new settler from Carthage. Current settler south-east of Utica can build right on the Roman road where NM currently stands. The city has to rush temple ASAP and may be walls. But our culture is OK against the Rome. We are first in everything except land area and annual income (?). This I dont understand. We have 7 contacts, so only 4 are left. We'd be better off if we don't trade techs! And build embassies with everyone. There is enough cash for upgrades and embassies as well. There is also room for 3 more cities at least. If we are strong, they would not come and try to extort something from us.
Good luck!
SAVE
[1] 1125BC. All quiet. Built Embassy with Spain (36g) and Rome (35g) and Bismark (50g) and England (50g) effectively emptying the treasury.
IBT. Utica worker->rax.
[2] 1100BC. Workers move from L magna south for jungle and marshes. Germany has MapMaking. Rome as well.
[3] 1075BC. Some mm but not much. We are doing as good as we can considering our wonder city. Spain has Poly. Wow! IBT. Carthage settler->settler.
[4] 1050BC. Our small boat tries to navigate through ocean south of Spain. And does not sink this turn.
[5] 1025BC. We are seafaring after all! The boat sails further on. Theveste galley->galley.
[6] 1000BC. Ships sail. IBT. Heroic curragh sinks finally. Alas.
[7] 975BC. Workers go for marshes heavily and some for jungle. IBT. Carthage settler->settler, Sabratha rax-warrior, Rusicade worker->temple (?).
[8] 950BC. Settler goes somewhere in between Rome and Cumae. There is too much unclaimed space there IMO. Cadiz founded, set to warrior for now. Galley sailed to Shumer settler/enkidu pair. They are up HBR and Poly. Embassy with Shumeria. They have horses and iron. Their Pyramids are ready in 20 turns. Embassy to Hittites and their Pyramids are ready in 3 turns. Actually, MoM in L magna would be extremely useful. Well, nobody told me and I was stupid enough. Now we are 36 shields up and it would be not a good idea to waste them now. Anyhow, what is done is done.
IBT. L minor worker->worker (city is heavy on jungle). Oea worker->rax.
[9] 925BC. NM goes to scout the future city site. IBT. Mursilis comes and tries to extort Philosophy. Apparently, we dont want to give it away. So, we are in war now.
[10] 900BC. We met Portugal. They have HBR and Poly and some cash. Did not trade.
Several notes. Micromanagement between Carthage and L magna is important. L magna can build MoM easily and would be our wonder city. Though cascade is a big threat. Two workers south of gold mountain and clearing marshes for a new settler from Carthage. Current settler south-east of Utica can build right on the Roman road where NM currently stands. The city has to rush temple ASAP and may be walls. But our culture is OK against the Rome. We are first in everything except land area and annual income (?). This I dont understand. We have 7 contacts, so only 4 are left. We'd be better off if we don't trade techs! And build embassies with everyone. There is enough cash for upgrades and embassies as well. There is also room for 3 more cities at least. If we are strong, they would not come and try to extort something from us.
Good luck!
SAVE
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
nice set of turns, akots. apparently, i was over-'rax'ing and am glad you fixed that. just to pick your brain, how many rax cities do you normally have in your early core?
akots
Poet
Not much indeed. I just figured out workers are priority and rax are the next thing to do. I usually go for rax in a city which has at least 4-5 uncorrupted shields to build veteran units (warrior/2 turns or spear/5 turns) and one rax close to front line for instant upgrade. However, it depends on situation. We would also have to pay maintenance fee for rax while they don't make enough units which ruins the budget. Later on, they are very rapidly built.
IMO, if we get wonder city going well, we can try for STAW. Later wonders would be probably impossible, but this one we can get. It might be a great help since Germany and England are also on the same continent. However, the game sometimes plays weird tricks and since there is only a 1-tile landbridge, game can recognize them as being on separate continent. We'll know soon, I guess. Rome can be dealt with in 10-20 turns. They had 2 spears only in capital.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
I'd like a discussion before I proceed.
What's our goal in this game? Before we get Facism we'll be stuck with Despotism. Do we want a fast tech pace to get Facism asap, or a domination/conquest win while we are still at despotism?
The answer would lead to very different strategies wrt tech pace (and a slow tech pace is inline with building the great library).
If we stick to the latter, right now we can still trade MM to Portugal and England to get some gold (they know other AIs who know Map Making anyway), and we can also get HBR 15 turns faster. I see everyone was holding the trade but I don't see why.
What's our goal in this game? Before we get Facism we'll be stuck with Despotism. Do we want a fast tech pace to get Facism asap, or a domination/conquest win while we are still at despotism?
The answer would lead to very different strategies wrt tech pace (and a slow tech pace is inline with building the great library).
If we stick to the latter, right now we can still trade MM to Portugal and England to get some gold (they know other AIs who know Map Making anyway), and we can also get HBR 15 turns faster. I see everyone was holding the trade but I don't see why.
akots
Poet
IMO, we have already discussed the strategy. Certainly, if you disagree with some points, just post your arguments. However, we have played a bunch of turns with the set goals already and changing tactics right away can damage our position. We are commercial and would have enough cash for upgrades. Apparently, winning before Gunpowder would be a good idea.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
SAVE - 650BC
preturn: We can trade MM to Portugal and England for good money, and both could get it from other AIs anyway, so I sell MM to Portugal for HBR+171g, and to England for 228g. I didn't trade any techs as we are getting GL in 15 turns.
IBT: Hippo brax->warrior. We'll build lots of warrior and upgrade to sword, then take on Rome. Sabratha warrior->warrior.
Hitties completes Pyramids. England starts ToA.
(1)875BC: Swap game tile to Carthage to get pop increase next turn with the settler.
IBT: carthage settler->settler. Utica NM->NM. Lots of cascade to Oracle, ToA and Lighthouse.
(2)850BC: I notice there is large landmass unsettled in the Germany/England island, but we are blocked by Cumae, which we want to capture soon.
Rome now has Philosophy.
IBT Rome and Hitties start MoM. Portugal starts Oracle and Great Lighthouse.
(3)825BC: I found Cirta. I start temple. Next leader could decide whether to switch to wall or not.
GL now due in 11 turns. I keep the food low to get it the fastest.
IBT: Sabratha war->war.
(4)800BC: Nora is founded to fill in the last gap. Now we have nowhere to settle except bypassing Rome to settle on the Germany island. We'll get some military going at end of my turn to take out Rome.
MM Carthage to get settler in 2 turns.
IBT: Hippo war->war.
(5)775BC: ZZZ
IBT: carthage settler->settler.
(6)750BC: Rome has CoL. I notice we don't have any harbor so I switch Cadiz from warrior to harbor.
IBT Treveste galley->rax. Sabratha war->war.
(7)730BC: ZZZ
IBT Germany offers Math for Lit I decline. Hippo war->war.
(8)710BC: ZZZ
IBT Utica NM->NM. Leptis worker->rax.
(9)690BC: ZZZ
IBT Carthage settler->settler.
(10)670BC: Rush temple in Hadrumetum.
Looks like the turns were messed up a bit. I'll play one more turn.
IBT Hippo war->war. Hadrumetum temple->worker. Rome completes Oracle.
Amsterdam builds Great Lighthouse.
(11)650BC: ZZZ
To the next player:
We have a bunch of vet warriors ready for upgrade. I've just started connecting the iron and it will be ready in a few turns. You can choose to stop it and build more warriors though. I think we should have about 15 swords before we attack Romans.
Carthage is still building settlers to replace the Roman size-1 towns. We have one settler in Hippo, the other escorted by a reg warrior transpassing Roman land to settle on the German side.
Great Library is due in 3. We have 1167g in bank and make 43gpt.
This is our land:
preturn: We can trade MM to Portugal and England for good money, and both could get it from other AIs anyway, so I sell MM to Portugal for HBR+171g, and to England for 228g. I didn't trade any techs as we are getting GL in 15 turns.
IBT: Hippo brax->warrior. We'll build lots of warrior and upgrade to sword, then take on Rome. Sabratha warrior->warrior.
Hitties completes Pyramids. England starts ToA.
(1)875BC: Swap game tile to Carthage to get pop increase next turn with the settler.
IBT: carthage settler->settler. Utica NM->NM. Lots of cascade to Oracle, ToA and Lighthouse.
(2)850BC: I notice there is large landmass unsettled in the Germany/England island, but we are blocked by Cumae, which we want to capture soon.
Rome now has Philosophy.
IBT Rome and Hitties start MoM. Portugal starts Oracle and Great Lighthouse.
(3)825BC: I found Cirta. I start temple. Next leader could decide whether to switch to wall or not.
GL now due in 11 turns. I keep the food low to get it the fastest.
IBT: Sabratha war->war.
(4)800BC: Nora is founded to fill in the last gap. Now we have nowhere to settle except bypassing Rome to settle on the Germany island. We'll get some military going at end of my turn to take out Rome.
MM Carthage to get settler in 2 turns.
IBT: Hippo war->war.
(5)775BC: ZZZ
IBT: carthage settler->settler.
(6)750BC: Rome has CoL. I notice we don't have any harbor so I switch Cadiz from warrior to harbor.
IBT Treveste galley->rax. Sabratha war->war.
(7)730BC: ZZZ
IBT Germany offers Math for Lit I decline. Hippo war->war.
(8)710BC: ZZZ
IBT Utica NM->NM. Leptis worker->rax.
(9)690BC: ZZZ
IBT Carthage settler->settler.
(10)670BC: Rush temple in Hadrumetum.
Looks like the turns were messed up a bit. I'll play one more turn.
IBT Hippo war->war. Hadrumetum temple->worker. Rome completes Oracle.
Amsterdam builds Great Lighthouse. (11)650BC: ZZZ
To the next player:
We have a bunch of vet warriors ready for upgrade. I've just started connecting the iron and it will be ready in a few turns. You can choose to stop it and build more warriors though. I think we should have about 15 swords before we attack Romans.
Carthage is still building settlers to replace the Roman size-1 towns. We have one settler in Hippo, the other escorted by a reg warrior transpassing Roman land to settle on the German side.
Great Library is due in 3. We have 1167g in bank and make 43gpt.
This is our land:
conehead234
Braves on the Warpath
Looks good, just a quick question, Does Rome have iron. If they don't it will be an easy victory for us.
conehead234
Braves on the Warpath
Here are some quick attack plans I drew up. Any ideas on the number of swords we need.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
that's always the million-dollar question to be pondered before lunging into war
we can do a conservative assumption that each town has 2 reg spears, except Rome which we can assume will have 3. this means we will have a total of 10 + 3 spears = 13.
we should win about 65-70% of the time with vet swords vs reg. spears so we would need at least 18-20. so, with all the happy calculator crunching done above, we should basically shoot for the normal ~20 vet swords. 15 will probably due for all cities except Rome so you can launch and then fill in.
The biggest problem is how to divide the force effectively. you seem to have arrows flying everywhere
this just shows how intertwined with Rome we currently are. imho, hit veili and pompei at the same time. newly produced units can take pisae and cumae while the main group swallows Neapolis and Rome. as long as they don't counter with a lot of horses, we should be ok. we can always wait for more swords, but then the thrill would be gone edit: sorry microbe, seems we cross posts
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
i don't know, this is going to be a weird GA for me. i usually avoid it as a despot. getting it now seems really out-of-wack since we won't be getting any multipliers from infrastructure. maybe we should wait for some markets to come online so we can at least fill the kitty?
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
i certainly understood that
i was just commenting on the fact that we have nothing in our cities that will multiply the effects of the GA (ie, markets or libraries). will the GLib give us currency, CoL, or other building-alotting tech's? if so, then it may make sense to get now, as we will be able to build-up our infrastructure. getting it now may be counter-productive if it only helps with our sure-to-win military campaign against Rome.
The Save
gozpel the Greedy played 15 turns. I wanted to finish what I started.
Pre-turn - everything looks ok.
Move some warriors down to Utica.
I sign peace with Hittites.
630bc - Germany completes The Mausoleum of Mausollos and Inca starts on Statue of Zeus.
Trade Incense from Hittites for dyes and 52g.
Change Cirta and Nora to warriors
Move settler pair towards Cirta
610bc = Rome kick our settler pair out of their territory, which saved me a turn.
Galley sunk by barbs.
Sabratha warrior -> warrior
Cirta warrior -> archer
590bc - Iron connected.
Carthage settler - settler
Leptis Magma GREAT LIBRARY -> library
Hippo warrior -> sword
Nora warrior -> archer
Whip archer in Cirta
Switch Utica from Num to sword
Shift-u to upgrade 20 warriors for 1200g, all except an elite warrior. (and 2 moved regs)
We have 46g left and make 44 gpt atm.
570bc - We learn Mathematics and Polytheism from the GLib.
Utica sword -> sword
Cirta archer -> worker
Whip archer in Nora
Switch Leptis Magma to Temple of Artemis, which I doubt we will get.
Move 15 swords (10 vets and 5 regs) and the elite warrior out of Utica.
Move 6 swords (2 vets and 4 regs) to Nora
550bc - Another galley is sunk by barbs, is this one of those days?
Nora archer -> worker
Upgrade 2 more reg warriors in Utica
Portugal knows Monarchy, I wouldn't mind Hanging Gardens myself.
I declare on Rome, move 17 units to Veii
530bc - GLib gives us Code of Laws
Portuguese are building HG
Oea barracks -> sword
Assault on Veii:
reg sword 2/3 kills reg spear
vet sword dies against reg spear, doing 1hp damage
vet sword 1/4 kills reg spear
vet sword dies against reg spear doing nothing
vet sword kills reg spear without damage
vet sword dies against reg spear, doing 2hp damage
vet sword 2/5 kills reg spear and promotes to elite
elite warrior dies against vet warrior, doing 2hp damage
vet sword dies against archer! this sucks
vet sword kills 1hp spear
vet sword kills warrior and promotes to elite
vet sword kills archer and finally take the city and 5 slaves
move 2 regs to disconnect the horses
Move stack of 6 swords and an archer next to Pisae
510bc - Reg sword defends against horseman
FP message
Cartage settler -> settler
Theveste barracks -> sword
Hadrementum worker -> worker
Elite sword tries his luck against hurt horse, kills it but no leader
Assault on Pisae:
Vet sword kills reg spear unharmed
reg sword 1/3 kills reg spear and raze the city
Move 5 units to Cumae
490bc - Assault on Cumae
Vet sword dies against reg spear, doing 1hp damage
Vet sword dies against reg spear, doing 1hp damage
reg sword kills 2hp spear
vet sword kills last spear and take the city plus 2 slaves
pillage horses
kills 2 roman archers
Russadir founded -> harbor
470bc - Reg sword defends against archer and promotes to vet
450bc - Sulcis founded on former Pisae spot -> worker
I want to take the city of Rome before I hand this over
430bc - Cartage settler -> settler
410bc - Cadiz harbor -> galley
Move 16 swords towards Rome
390bc - Sumer completes Temple of Artemis and Portugal finish Hanging Garden
Switch Leptis Magma to Palace
370bc We learn Monarchy from GLib, I switch immediately. Just kidding
Rome lands an archer next to Carthage which riots.
Assault on Rome:
vet sword 1/4 kills reg spear
elite sword kills reg spear and -
vet sword kills reg spear, no damage
vet sword dies against reg spear, doing nothing
vet sword dies against reg spear, doing 1hp damage, but spear promotes
reg sword dies promoting the spear again
reg sword kills the bastard spear
reg sword kills reg warrior and takes the city and the Oracle plus 2 slaves
Peace with Caesar for 3 cities - Pompeii, Neapolis and Ravenna plus 40 gold.
We take Antium in 20 turns. They have a city Hispalis somewhere
350bc - A few things built, forgot what.
Next player can sell Lit for a few hundred gold, we might need that money one day.
Germany knows Construction and Portugal Currency.
Clear marshes SW of Veii and we can plop down another city. We have 3 settlers.
The leader is waiting in Veii.
And we stayed out of Golden Age
gozpel the Greedy played 15 turns. I wanted to finish what I started.
Pre-turn - everything looks ok.
Move some warriors down to Utica.
I sign peace with Hittites.
630bc - Germany completes The Mausoleum of Mausollos and Inca starts on Statue of Zeus.
Trade Incense from Hittites for dyes and 52g.
Change Cirta and Nora to warriors
Move settler pair towards Cirta
610bc = Rome kick our settler pair out of their territory, which saved me a turn.
Galley sunk by barbs.
Sabratha warrior -> warrior
Cirta warrior -> archer
590bc - Iron connected.
Carthage settler - settler
Leptis Magma GREAT LIBRARY -> library
Hippo warrior -> sword
Nora warrior -> archer
Whip archer in Cirta
Switch Utica from Num to sword
Shift-u to upgrade 20 warriors for 1200g, all except an elite warrior. (and 2 moved regs)
We have 46g left and make 44 gpt atm.
570bc - We learn Mathematics and Polytheism from the GLib.
Utica sword -> sword
Cirta archer -> worker
Whip archer in Nora
Switch Leptis Magma to Temple of Artemis, which I doubt we will get.
Move 15 swords (10 vets and 5 regs) and the elite warrior out of Utica.
Move 6 swords (2 vets and 4 regs) to Nora
550bc - Another galley is sunk by barbs, is this one of those days?
Nora archer -> worker
Upgrade 2 more reg warriors in Utica
Portugal knows Monarchy, I wouldn't mind Hanging Gardens myself.
I declare on Rome, move 17 units to Veii
530bc - GLib gives us Code of Laws
Portuguese are building HG
Oea barracks -> sword
Assault on Veii:
reg sword 2/3 kills reg spear
vet sword dies against reg spear, doing 1hp damage
vet sword 1/4 kills reg spear
vet sword dies against reg spear doing nothing
vet sword kills reg spear without damage
vet sword dies against reg spear, doing 2hp damage
vet sword 2/5 kills reg spear and promotes to elite
elite warrior dies against vet warrior, doing 2hp damage
vet sword dies against archer! this sucks
vet sword kills 1hp spear
vet sword kills warrior and promotes to elite
vet sword kills archer and finally take the city and 5 slaves
move 2 regs to disconnect the horses
Move stack of 6 swords and an archer next to Pisae
510bc - Reg sword defends against horseman
FP message
Cartage settler -> settler
Theveste barracks -> sword
Hadrementum worker -> worker
Elite sword tries his luck against hurt horse, kills it but no leader
Assault on Pisae:
Vet sword kills reg spear unharmed
reg sword 1/3 kills reg spear and raze the city
Move 5 units to Cumae
490bc - Assault on Cumae
Vet sword dies against reg spear, doing 1hp damage
Vet sword dies against reg spear, doing 1hp damage
reg sword kills 2hp spear
vet sword kills last spear and take the city plus 2 slaves
pillage horses
kills 2 roman archers
Russadir founded -> harbor
470bc - Reg sword defends against archer and promotes to vet
450bc - Sulcis founded on former Pisae spot -> worker
I want to take the city of Rome before I hand this over
430bc - Cartage settler -> settler
410bc - Cadiz harbor -> galley
Move 16 swords towards Rome
390bc - Sumer completes Temple of Artemis and Portugal finish Hanging Garden
Switch Leptis Magma to Palace
370bc We learn Monarchy from GLib, I switch immediately. Just kidding
Rome lands an archer next to Carthage which riots.
Assault on Rome:
vet sword 1/4 kills reg spear
elite sword kills reg spear and -
vet sword kills reg spear, no damage
vet sword dies against reg spear, doing nothing
vet sword dies against reg spear, doing 1hp damage, but spear promotes
reg sword dies promoting the spear again
reg sword kills the bastard spear
reg sword kills reg warrior and takes the city and the Oracle plus 2 slaves
Peace with Caesar for 3 cities - Pompeii, Neapolis and Ravenna plus 40 gold.
We take Antium in 20 turns. They have a city Hispalis somewhere
350bc - A few things built, forgot what.
Next player can sell Lit for a few hundred gold, we might need that money one day.
Germany knows Construction and Portugal Currency.
Clear marshes SW of Veii and we can plop down another city. We have 3 settlers.
The leader is waiting in Veii.
And we stayed out of Golden Age
