GR12 - AWM vs 30 civs, Pangea
- Thread starter Greebley
- Start date
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
BTW, we should immediately return to single-scientist research on Engineering. We really have no idea when we'll get Engineering (or anything else) from the GLib in this unusual situation, and it's a very cheap precaution.
ThERat
Deity
agree with NP, please employ a scientist, cost us 2gpt but we might benefit from that.
By the way, the Sumer units moving away doeesn't mean their are figthing a war, the AI often does
moves due to a certain predesigned path being blocked
By the way, the Sumer units moving away doeesn't mean their are figthing a war, the AI often does
moves due to a certain predesigned path being blocked
vmxa said:
I missed Gozpel's messge.
Vmxa, if you wanted to play, you could play in Gozpels spot. It is up to you. The only requirement would be some experience in AW - Specifically, the basics on how to fight and keep losses down.
So I don't need you but if you want to join you would be welcome.
I don't know about 70's-3, like Beorn pulled off, but I like AW. Basically I try to use amries and bombardment as much as I can. Fast movers to pick off damaged strays and not leave any units exposed.
I don't trust single defenders to cover units and will try to cover with more than one or an army. I tend to not short rush, unless it is an emergency. By short rush, I mean cheap build and escalate up to the finally build. As opposed to plain rushing or whipping. I also do not whip much in AW.
I have been reading the post, but not loading the save, so now I will load them them and pay closer attention.
For those that prefer to play on the weekend, you can put me elsewhere as time is not an issue for me.
I don't trust single defenders to cover units and will try to cover with more than one or an army. I tend to not short rush, unless it is an emergency. By short rush, I mean cheap build and escalate up to the finally build. As opposed to plain rushing or whipping. I also do not whip much in AW.
I have been reading the post, but not loading the save, so now I will load them them and pay closer attention.
For those that prefer to play on the weekend, you can put me elsewhere as time is not an issue for me.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Re: the pre-disposed path of the Sums, if they went for Dyes it might be possible a unit is over there. If it's the only thing keeping them from marching onto us, I say let's keep 2-3 pikes fortified over there.
If there's nothing on the dyes, better luck next time, we'll have to guess something else out.
If there's nothing on the dyes, better luck next time, we'll have to guess something else out.
Sorry, I did not read the thread before playing, so no scientist employed.
T1) 980AD : we kill 1 bab spear, 4 bowmen
1 Port horseman (6-0)
IBT : the Sumerians are coming back, so no other war I think.
we lose two pikes on defense, 1 Jap sword suicides against one pike (7-2)
Forbidden Palace is complete
T2) 990AD : we kill a Port horse, archer and a spear
3 bowmen and 1 spear
1 Sum sword, 1 archer and 2 EWs
lose an archer, an MDI (18-4)
IBT : lose a pike on defense (18-5)
we learn chivalry from the GLib
T3) 1000AD : we kill 6 bab spears, 3 bowmen
3 EWs, 1 sword
1 German pike, 1 MDI
3 Jap swords
lose an archer (36-6)
Where are the leaders ?
IBT : kill 2 units on defense and lose an archer and an MDI (38-8)
Sumeria enters with 7 EWS and 8 swords our territory
7 bowmen are at Yalburt
T4) 1010AD : our cats wound almost almost all Sumerian and Babylonian unit, hopefully the AI keeps being dumb and retreats all wounded units
we kill 1 Jap sword
1 German pike
5 EWs
2 Bowmen
lose an MDI (47-9)
IBT : this is such a crap. an exposed eSword generates a leader and is killed by another Sum sword. Thank you RNG.
defense 1-1 (48-10)
Portugal lands an archer at Worker Pump
T5) 1020AD : we kill 1 Port archer
5 Sum swords, 4 EWs
1 Bab spear, 1 bowman
lose 2 MDIs (60-12)
IBT : a Jap horse redlines our elite pike in Spite and and a sword takes it. Didn't see the horse coming (60-13)
It is the second during my sets that I lose Spite. What a shame.
The Russians have been destroyed
T6) 1030AD : we kill a bab spear
2 EWs, 3 swords
1 Port horse, 2 spears, 1 archer
1 Jap spear (71-12)
IBT : Portugal drops 2 horses at Worker Pump
T7) 1040AD : retake Spite
we kill 2 Jap spears, 4 Jap swords
2 Sum swords
5 Port horses
1 Spanish spear
2 bowmen
lose an MDI (87-13)
IBT : a reg German MDI attacking Samuha gets damaged by a catapult, but still redlines our healthy MDI army fortified in that town. What is this ?
T8) 1050AD : we kill a Jap spear, 1 sword
1 Port archer
2 bab spears, 5 bowmen (97-13)
I stop here to even out. We are at turn 220 now. The area around Kummani is a little more quiet now. The big stacks of Sumeria are almost killed. At Samuha it is getting more tense now. Germany sends MDI-pike combos.
No chance to expand. It was just holding the lines for me. There are two Port galleys in our NW. They are empty and are going back, but there is a bab galley which cannot decide where to go. It is really ridiculous that I cannot get any leaders. So many elite victories and nothing. We desperately need two more armies to get a chance to advance.
During my set Hammi sent a horse, so maybe he has some or bought them. Portugal seems to lack iron as they just send horses and archers. Germany seems to lack horses as they send pikes and MDIs which is annoying enough.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/GR12_AD1050.SAV
T1) 980AD : we kill 1 bab spear, 4 bowmen
1 Port horseman (6-0)
IBT : the Sumerians are coming back, so no other war I think.
we lose two pikes on defense, 1 Jap sword suicides against one pike (7-2)
Forbidden Palace is complete
T2) 990AD : we kill a Port horse, archer and a spear
3 bowmen and 1 spear
1 Sum sword, 1 archer and 2 EWs
lose an archer, an MDI (18-4)
IBT : lose a pike on defense (18-5)
we learn chivalry from the GLib
T3) 1000AD : we kill 6 bab spears, 3 bowmen
3 EWs, 1 sword
1 German pike, 1 MDI
3 Jap swords
lose an archer (36-6)
Where are the leaders ?
IBT : kill 2 units on defense and lose an archer and an MDI (38-8)
Sumeria enters with 7 EWS and 8 swords our territory
7 bowmen are at Yalburt
T4) 1010AD : our cats wound almost almost all Sumerian and Babylonian unit, hopefully the AI keeps being dumb and retreats all wounded units
we kill 1 Jap sword
1 German pike
5 EWs
2 Bowmen
lose an MDI (47-9)
IBT : this is such a crap. an exposed eSword generates a leader and is killed by another Sum sword. Thank you RNG.
defense 1-1 (48-10)
Portugal lands an archer at Worker Pump
T5) 1020AD : we kill 1 Port archer
5 Sum swords, 4 EWs
1 Bab spear, 1 bowman
lose 2 MDIs (60-12)
IBT : a Jap horse redlines our elite pike in Spite and and a sword takes it. Didn't see the horse coming (60-13)
It is the second during my sets that I lose Spite. What a shame.
The Russians have been destroyed
T6) 1030AD : we kill a bab spear
2 EWs, 3 swords
1 Port horse, 2 spears, 1 archer
1 Jap spear (71-12)
IBT : Portugal drops 2 horses at Worker Pump
T7) 1040AD : retake Spite
we kill 2 Jap spears, 4 Jap swords
2 Sum swords
5 Port horses
1 Spanish spear
2 bowmen
lose an MDI (87-13)
IBT : a reg German MDI attacking Samuha gets damaged by a catapult, but still redlines our healthy MDI army fortified in that town. What is this ?
T8) 1050AD : we kill a Jap spear, 1 sword
1 Port archer
2 bab spears, 5 bowmen (97-13)
I stop here to even out. We are at turn 220 now. The area around Kummani is a little more quiet now. The big stacks of Sumeria are almost killed. At Samuha it is getting more tense now. Germany sends MDI-pike combos.
No chance to expand. It was just holding the lines for me. There are two Port galleys in our NW. They are empty and are going back, but there is a bab galley which cannot decide where to go. It is really ridiculous that I cannot get any leaders. So many elite victories and nothing. We desperately need two more armies to get a chance to advance.
During my set Hammi sent a horse, so maybe he has some or bought them. Portugal seems to lack iron as they just send horses and archers. Germany seems to lack horses as they send pikes and MDIs which is annoying enough.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/GR12_AD1050.SAV
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Indeed, we're way way under our 1/12 victory rate.Markh said:
One sci civ out of the way, good thing for the tech rate.Markh said:
If the Sums are dried out, we may just have the bit of luck we need to go on and take Mari+the other Sum city. Getting out of that forest where they hide bowmen would make for an easier clay pigeon shooting. If the catapults can handle the stalling, I think sending 2 armies over for a blitz could be worth it. Amass pikes, let them attack if they can and take out their city by the backdoor.
My .05 on vmxa is that he's not out of his league opening this save
I think next turn we can take out all remaining Sumerian and Babylonian units at Yalburt and Kummani. All units in the Sumerian stack you can see in the pic below the EW should be redlined. Then it should be possible to go for Mari. Samuha will get hotter as the Germans are coming there and the appearance of Portuguese units increased also.
ThERat
Deity
we have to take the risk and expand. If we don't expand and fond horses, we will evenutally get overrun. Golden rule of AW games. So, next player (Greebley?) needs to take some calculated risk.
Glad you can join us. You sound experience enough. Truth be known, I don't tend to get 70-3 either. I don't play defensively enough for that.
I have some time to play now so I will swap with you Vxma.
Roster:
Greebley - Up
ThERat
Northern Pike
Beorn-eL-Feared
markh - Just Played
[Edit copy-n-paste]Vxma - On Deck
I have some time to play now so I will swap with you Vxma.
Roster:
Greebley - Up
ThERat
Northern Pike
Beorn-eL-Feared
markh - Just Played
[Edit copy-n-paste]Vxma - On Deck
Sounds good to me.
Markh mentioned not having a lone scientist running. I think that is fine for this game at this point. You would need over 50bpt to crack 50 turn pace at 2600 beakers for a tech (Eng). Once you obsolete the GLB, then you could go lone scientist. Else you give up 100 gold for a tech you can expect to get from the GLB in about the same time frame.
Markh mentioned not having a lone scientist running. I think that is fine for this game at this point. You would need over 50bpt to crack 50 turn pace at 2600 beakers for a tech (Eng). Once you obsolete the GLB, then you could go lone scientist. Else you give up 100 gold for a tech you can expect to get from the GLB in about the same time frame.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
The foreign advisor says the Sumerians have about the same size army as you. Never mind anyone else. Staggering numbers indeed.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Same army strenght but a most likely stunning number of defenders ... that might mean 1.5 + times the army size, at the very least.
And 100 SG's,
And 100 SG's,
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
vmxa said:
Well, we're twenty-four turns away from Engineering even though we haven't done one-nerd research for the last fifteen turns. So if the GLib doesn't give us Engineering in the next nine turns, we'll know that we should have stuck with the insurance policy.
I've always been influenced by the fact that in the first SG I played, we had the GLib and knew that one of our contacts already had Republic, so we didn't even min-research it. Forty turns later, we still didn't have it.
ThERat said:
Problem with that was that we did not have any room and no available troops to expand. At Kummani and Yalburt the Sumerians and Babylonians came in numbers that I hardly could repell them. If the cats would have not hit that well they possibly would have overrun us there. I left Karatepe open and the Sumerian units seemed to go for that city. They did not attack Kummani, but moved straight North. In the East we did not have enough units to have a chance to raze a city and plant a new one. We need two armies that can go and raze some cities. The current armies were fully involved killing units advancing to us.
Northern Pike said:
Yes if you had 24 turns in, that is different. I was talking about from scratch. It could be that even 50 turns would be worth it, I am not sure. I am guessing that a pangea will find most civs getting lots of contacts about now, except for the island guys.
You already know 7 civs and one has eng, so I would think 50 turns is enough. Nine no, that is a very long shot for sure. Germany has all our techs and could find someone to trade, but who knows.
I started but didn't finish. I hope to finish tonight.
Preturn: Science on. Start a Galley - to find the shape of the land and look for horses. We need only one because the other direction is known up to a new civ's border that I don't want to meet right now.
Other minor tweeks.
IBT: We lose an exposed Archer.
1060 AD: Kill a big stack of Sumerians, some Germans and a few Babylonians. Only Germany has any size force now.
I am going to try to move out at least some of the Armies. Not sure if I will raze to expand or to explore.
IBT: No attacks
1070 AD: Kill more units. Attack a Sumerian city.If I can kill it we can lay down a town.
1080 AD: Anjar is Razed. Lining up attacks on the two Babylonian towns as well.
1090 AD:
Finally get a leader = Army
A decent sized Sumerian stack is coming. Nothing to fearsome though. I continue to advance despite adversity.
Army:
1100 AD:
Bombard and Raze Mari and immediately settle Malice near Spite.
We get another leader = Army. We have 5 now.
1110 AD: Aden is Razed. An Army can go pretty far this turn and will be sent to slwo the germans. Germans are showing up with Knights. It would be nice to knock out their Horses or Iron. They may be trading for one so pillaging to disconnect their capitol would stop them.
A picture of the current position:
1120 AD: We get yet another Leader. I find I can't (yet) make an Army but we will be building more towns soon. Our leader dry spot has been balanced out IMO. I am getting a decent number of victories but it is less than 12 per turn by a good bit.
Breaking new report: Horses have been spotted. Some Armies will start converging on this spot. It is not much farther with the current cities razed.
I plan to wait on filling the 6th Army with knights
1130 AD: We found another Town, Kulteppe(I forgot to note then name - it could have been Alisar) and now have enough for a 6th Army to save for Knights.
Carchimesh is Razed.
1140 AD: We have a run of Babylonians. They have lots of units and our Armies in the area have been busy, so there is a bunch of mop up that needs to be done. They are now inside our outer borders of the new towns.
1150 AD: I plant one more town (Alisar)
We are in a slightly delicate position and only 1 turn from the Horses. I will play one turn extra. You can feel free to play 9 or 10.
1160 AD: Tarsus is built on top of the Horse and we can now build Knights!
I also build Aleppo.
Notes:
To get the Horses sooner I pushed a little. I feel we have adequate defense in our towns but will need to pause to consolidate our hold and clear out enemies now in our lands. One thing you can do is injure units so the retreat out of our lands. Don't feel you need to kill them all right away. My advice is to injure units a single point while also lowering one stack to 1-2 hp so you can attack it. Alternatively, the pikemen can absorb the attacks of uninjured swords if the town is walled.
Get some Pikes into Tarsus. The AI can attack that city right away. We also want to prioritize taking out the Sumerian city.
We are building some of our UU so we can start our golden age.
We should have 3 knights in 5 turns which can go into the Army for our first knight army.
I did build some Markets and started some more.. We haven't built the Libraries yet. When we get theology we should start some. I would have at least 1 preferably 2 markets building at any time (more is fine as well).
I would go on the offensive when we can. This is a good time while several of the AI still have Spear guarding their cities (those without Iron). Using the armies for Razing and using the normal units to defend works pretty well though stacks of MDI and Cats is also viable.
Two Final Pictures:
The 1160 AD Save
Other minor tweeks.
IBT: We lose an exposed Archer.
1060 AD: Kill a big stack of Sumerians, some Germans and a few Babylonians. Only Germany has any size force now.
I am going to try to move out at least some of the Armies. Not sure if I will raze to expand or to explore.
IBT: No attacks
1070 AD: Kill more units. Attack a Sumerian city.If I can kill it we can lay down a town.
1080 AD: Anjar is Razed. Lining up attacks on the two Babylonian towns as well.
1090 AD:
Finally get a leader = Army
A decent sized Sumerian stack is coming. Nothing to fearsome though. I continue to advance despite adversity.
Army:
1100 AD:
Bombard and Raze Mari and immediately settle Malice near Spite.
We get another leader = Army. We have 5 now.
1110 AD: Aden is Razed. An Army can go pretty far this turn and will be sent to slwo the germans. Germans are showing up with Knights. It would be nice to knock out their Horses or Iron. They may be trading for one so pillaging to disconnect their capitol would stop them.
A picture of the current position:
1120 AD: We get yet another Leader. I find I can't (yet) make an Army but we will be building more towns soon. Our leader dry spot has been balanced out IMO. I am getting a decent number of victories but it is less than 12 per turn by a good bit.
Breaking new report: Horses have been spotted. Some Armies will start converging on this spot. It is not much farther with the current cities razed.
I plan to wait on filling the 6th Army with knights
1130 AD: We found another Town, Kulteppe(I forgot to note then name - it could have been Alisar) and now have enough for a 6th Army to save for Knights.
Carchimesh is Razed.
1140 AD: We have a run of Babylonians. They have lots of units and our Armies in the area have been busy, so there is a bunch of mop up that needs to be done. They are now inside our outer borders of the new towns.
1150 AD: I plant one more town (Alisar)
We are in a slightly delicate position and only 1 turn from the Horses. I will play one turn extra. You can feel free to play 9 or 10.
1160 AD: Tarsus is built on top of the Horse and we can now build Knights!
I also build Aleppo.
Notes:
To get the Horses sooner I pushed a little. I feel we have adequate defense in our towns but will need to pause to consolidate our hold and clear out enemies now in our lands. One thing you can do is injure units so the retreat out of our lands. Don't feel you need to kill them all right away. My advice is to injure units a single point while also lowering one stack to 1-2 hp so you can attack it. Alternatively, the pikemen can absorb the attacks of uninjured swords if the town is walled.
Get some Pikes into Tarsus. The AI can attack that city right away. We also want to prioritize taking out the Sumerian city.
We are building some of our UU so we can start our golden age.
We should have 3 knights in 5 turns which can go into the Army for our first knight army.
I did build some Markets and started some more.. We haven't built the Libraries yet. When we get theology we should start some. I would have at least 1 preferably 2 markets building at any time (more is fine as well).
I would go on the offensive when we can. This is a good time while several of the AI still have Spear guarding their cities (those without Iron). Using the armies for Razing and using the normal units to defend works pretty well though stacks of MDI and Cats is also viable.
Two Final Pictures:
The 1160 AD Save
I take it that the GLB did yield Eng, since you are 5 turns into Invention.
