GR28 - AWM vs 30 civs, Pangea

[CommandoBob]

I am hoping we can get Chem at better than minimum. We will have to see after we start our GA.

We've had a few more libraries come online since the start of my turnset. But I did not go back and adjust the science the slider after I started playing. We wanted to save our gold for after our Golden Age ended and we changed to Monarchy and we needed to do negative gpt research.

But yeah, Chemistry in 40+ turns is not good.

 

[ThERat]

I started to play until the beginning of turn 3 and in all honesty, I think this game is lost. Even in our GA, we can only get chemistry in 22 turns at a deficit of 50gpt.

The enemies coming in bigger numbers, Celts have connected iron and come with GS and knights at us, adding to the Japanese forces.

Dutch show with big numbers to and from the north we are being attacked by Ansars now, one of the real dreaded early attackers.

We have too many fronts, too lousy land (no rivers for commerce and endless jungle). With no corners to start from this game is doomed imho.

 

[CommandoBob]

So, for another AW on a Pangea, we could either:

• Drop down to Regent
• Set AI Aggression higher
• Use a SEA civ

A Seafaring civ would give us a rather useless trait for a pangea landmass, but we would have a shorter front to defend.

AI on AI wars are great for us, too.

I don't really want to drop down to Regent.

 

[Greebley]

Could you post the beginning of turn 3 save? That way we can all view it and see if anyone thinks we should continue.

This would make the first Monarchy game that is a loss, but we had everything against us. If we do quit what do you all think about another game, but I will look for a better map positioning or good start? Otherwise it will be the same (monarchy, random civ).


Actually, I haven't done the "4 starts and we pick one" recently. I would like to go for that if you all agree. Then we can combine start with location and civ to decide which to play.

 

[DWetzel]

Lurker comment: I don't know if you guys could physically get much worse of a start than the one you had. I would say that with an average-random start you'd have a much better shot.

 

[CommandoBob]

I'm fine with playing a random civ and taking the first start that is dealt to us. I think we are good enough that we don't need to cherry-pick our starts in order to win.

 

[Daeron]

I wonder how we could have played this thing differently. You really need quick growth in this type of game for unit support, or you're either ruining your own research, or struggle with keeping up with the numbers.

With a seafaring civ this game becomes a lot easier, smaller front and extra commerce from the core cities on the coast. But I'm fine with playing random, a central start is a very interesting challenge.

Part of the reason we had unit support problems is that our area was only three cities wide, but 15 cities long. It doesn't allow for many cities without defenders. For a central start to work, I think we need to expand more evenly in different directions and hope for natural barriers.

 

[Spoonwood]

Does Carthage make a good choice because of Numidian Mercenaries, or a bad one because Numidian Mercernaries?

 

[ThERat]

here is my log until the end of turn 3 (note that 1 town would have to be covered cos of an ansar)

Pre-Turn
decide that the GA has to come earlier, else we lose
defeat a Celtic horse with keshik army and we have our GA
defeat 2 Japanese horses, a Celtic spear
kill Araba mace [5-0]

turn on science again and chemistry is due in 22 turns at a big deficit

IT defeat 2 units on defense

1. 960AD
use our MGL to rush a library
our situation is precarious on all fronts, there isn't even any way to break out
bombard some units, defeat 3 Japanese and 2 Celtic units
2 Arabs and 1 Zulu, 3 Ottoman
attack 2 Sumer cities and defeat 2 pikes

as we had not founded a city when we could I found one in a less ideal spot but at least another city is ours
[18-0]

IT lose 2 spears on defense, Celts surely got some iron as they appear with GS and knights
I feel the game is lost with too many enemy units surrounding us [18-2]

2. 970AD
kill 3 ottoman units, bring down 2 Sumerians and raze bad tibiria
found replacement
defeat units on all fronts, going 11-1, there are too many units that we can handle

capture Arbela as we do not have any replacement in sight (defeat 2 spears)
take out another Persian horse [36-3]

IT we go 2-2 on defense as the Arabs show up with Ansars

3. 980AD
defeat 10 units all around the empire [48-5]

 

[ThERat]

I don't think we need to go lower than monarch, hell, I am currently winning a demigod huge pangaea game myself but with very favorable terms.

We could select from a pool of starts, I don't mind

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

That is a hard question to answer, but I would lean towards bad. The GA issue I would not worry about as many have that. The thing that I would be concerned about is the AI may not attack the towns.

If they bypass them, that is bad. The extra 50% in shields will also strain your empire in a game like this at that point. If they will attack, then the cost is fine as you would need fewer units to defend and offset the cost and gain some slack in the unit support.

The thing is I often see them bypass pike at even a later point in the game and even elite spears can scare of warriors.

 

[vmxa]

I don't think we need to go lower than monarch, hell, I am currently winning a demigod huge pangaea game myself but with very favorable terms.

We could select from a pool of starts, I don't mind

The games I played in we struggled in some AWM, with unfavorable starts. Got clobbered in some AWDG, unless we did have superior starts. Not just in terms of land, but location.

I would agree with you that you do not need either to drop in level nor super starts. Just not real crappy ones. No river and lots of jungle was going to be a real task, regardless of level.

Emperor or Monarch only require decent starts, DG needs above average or some serious breaks, like leader timing or the right neighbors.

 

[CommandoBob]

Does Carthage make a good choice because of Numidian Mercenaries, or a bad one because Numidian Mercernaries?

If we had this start as Carthage, nothing would have changed. In fact, with that UU, we would have had our Golden Age much earlier.

If we had been the Dutch, which has a similar UU to Carthage (great defender), we would have been better off. A coastal start would have been great since we would have had a smaller front to defend. We needed to be shaped more like Brazil, with our borders rather far from our capital. Instead we were forced into Chile's configuration. Plus, having the Zulu's nearby and dealing with their pesky and perky Impis slowed down our own terrain improvements.

 

[Greebley]

I remember playing Carthage and having a lot of trouble getting enough defenders for everything. I would say they are decent with a strong start with plenty of shields, but otherwise they can be a real struggle.

 

[del62]

Carthage would have given a costal start, the potential for earlier artillery and possible SOZ earlier

 

[darski]

This is a tough call to make. I'll be following your next game and look forward to your new challenges.

 

[Calis]

I'd like to try such an AW game for myself in single player. How can I get such a modified setup (30 opponents and 250x250 size)?

 

[vmxa]

You can either use the editor to make your own BIQ and change the size and add 31 nation as well as a few rules changes (tech cost at least). Look for LK or GR BIQ's in one of their threads.

I would guess around GR18 one was posted. I forget where LK had one.

 

[Greebley]

I posted the scenario map in the user created forums at one point:

This is the thread

Note that it is especially suited to AW with a very slow tech pace. This allows you time to build up against the opposition. You choose a huge map to get the 250x250. The other sizes are unchanged (and likely wouldn't play well with the slower tech.).

Edit: If you have any problems, then post again and I will upload the current version.

 

[Greebley]

NP,
Are you back yet? I want to give you a chance to voice an opinion if you have one though I do think the game can't be won. We have the Japanese and Spanish rush hitting us with Knights also on the scene and just too many fronts to defend with the enemy stacks getting bigger than we can handle as well.