GR12 - AWM vs 30 civs, Pangea

the worker pump serves as a great settler pump now, so we can keep it below pop 6.

If we lose this game it all has to do with our starting position, no rivers, no food bonus. It's a miracle that we are expanding that well.

And by the way, the unit influx never ceased, it's just that we have cats and units to handle that, but don't underestimate the babs and the coming influx of Germans and Sumerians.

Portugese and Spanish have horses, we need to be careful about that.
 
Yup no river even and so much forest to chop with no food bonus. I would also wonder if the aggressive scouting was not a small factor. I really hate to look more than a few tiles out in a Pangea AW, until I have already been greeted by my close neighbors.

The only break you realy got was being one one end, rather than in the middle.

I also agree that the two new friends you have aquired will come with some numbers.
 
Good work, Rat. :goodjob:

I've got it.

vmxa said:
Just wondering what the advantage was to have Worker Pump so far from Ugarit and skipping the river? Was it captured? Is it a concern for running into city limits?

I placed Worker Pump, but Beorn has basically given my reasons. :thanx: I wanted the town to have access to all the good tiles immediately, not after another foundation or a cultural expansion. The harder the game, the more important it is to think in these terms, I find.

The cost of an aqueduct doesn't concern me much, because in a game on this semi-insane scale a size-six worker and settler pump will be useful forever, essentially. There's still room for a city at the mouth of the river, with enough tiles to itself to reach size seven.

Ankuwa was founded very soon after Worker Pump, so WP was never really dangerously isolated.
 
ThERat said:
the worker pump serves as a great settler pump now, so we can keep it below pop 6.

If we lose this game it all has to do with our starting position, no rivers, no food bonus. It's a miracle that we are expanding that well.

And by the way, the unit influx never ceased, it's just that we have cats and units to handle that, but don't underestimate the babs and the coming influx of Germans and Sumerians.

Portugese and Spanish have horses, we need to be careful about that.

We expanded because there is only a single front. It doesn't seem a miracle to me. The land shape is at least as important as the resources at the start.

Besides, at least we got Grasslands unlike the first start I rolled up which was no rivers and all plains. :lol:
 
800 (0): I'm glad to see we have a single scientist assigned. It's incredible what the GLib can not produce sometimes.

I can't imagine our using a Leader for the HE when we're so short of armies, so I switch Hunt Season to the HE, due in fourteen turns.


810 (1): I pull back our army/settler team next to Sippar, to better prepare this attack. An army alone in a newly founded town has very little flexibility.

I spend ten wasted minutes musing on the tactical situation around Matalya, when it turns out that the archer threatening the town is our own. :rolleyes: The man responsible for this game's colour palette should be tarred and feathered.

We strike down two Japanese spearmen, a Spanish horseman, and a Bab spearman in the southeast, and a Bab spearman in the southwest (5-0).

I leave a stack of four Bowmen unbombarded so that they'll assault Kummanni, and it works well when three attack and die (8-0).

A Spanish archer cuts down our asterisked swordsman in the SE (8-1). I saw this attack, but had to take a chance to get the road to Samuha started.

Hattusas aqueduct --> library.

The Babylonians are building KT. Well, we haven't seen horsemen from them so we may not see knights.


820 (2): We account for a Spanish archer and a Portuguese horseman in the SE (10-1).

Not bombarding the Babs around Kummanni again works well, as five Bowmen attack and perish (15-1).


830 (3): We get Samuha connected to our road network.

We extirpate two Bab spearmen around Kummanni, and three Japanese swordsmen and two German archers in the SE (22-1).

We move our sword army, six MDI, seven cats, and a settler next to Sippar. I'm not big on one-army offensives. ;)

With our SoD waiting to attack the town, several Bab units pass through Sippar. I never get tired of seeing that. :lol:


840 (4): We raze Sippar, held by two spearmen and two redlined Bowmen just moved in (26-1). We gain two slaves.

We cut down another two Bab Bowmen, and a spearman, in the SW (29-1).

We shoot down two Port. archers landed on the marsh tile E of Tyrana (31-1).

In the SE we carve up a Japanese swordsman, a Japanese spearman, and a Port. archer (34-1).

The MDI which razed Sippar is slaughtered in its exposed position (34-2).

Four Spanish horsemen use the neutral road to attack Samuha. One dies, two retreat, and one implausibly defeats an elite pike fortified behind walls (35-3).

The first enemy MDI appear--Germany's.

Alacacuk library --> aqueduct.


850 (5): We liquidate three Bowmen and two Bab spearmen in fighting around the ruins of Sippar (40-3).

In the SE we crush four Spanish horsemen and a Spanish spearman (45-3).


860 (6): We mop up another six Bab units, three Bowmen and three spearmen, in the Sippar area (51-3).

In the SE we account for two Port. horsemen and a German MDI (54-3).

Hubishna library --> aqueduct.

The Babs build Sun Tzu--so to look on the bright side, it's close.


870 (7): We batter a Port. horseman/archer pair landed next to Tyrana (56-3).

We finally clear the ruins of Sippar for our settler, smiting another three Bowmen but losing an MDI (59-4).

In the SE we destroy two Japanese swordsmen and a Port. spearman (62-4).

The Great Library yields Monotheism.

The Koreans, so far unknown to us, beat the Babs to Knights Templar.


880 (8): In the SE we liquidate a Sumerian swordsman, an Enk, a Japanese spearman, a Port. spearman, a German MDI, and a German pikeman (68-4). In the process we generate Suppiluliumas, our first GL in twenty-three elite victories this round. He immediately forms an MDI army.

We get Yalburt founded on the ruins of Sippar.

The Sumerians are present in force now--eleven units that we can see--but for the moment they're attacking the Arabs.


890 (9): In the SE we wipe out five German MDI, and generate the GL Mutawallis, as our luck begins to even out (73-4). I'll use him for the Pentagon.

In the SW we execute a Bab spearman and a German archer/warrior team (76-4).


900 (10): We expunge a Sumerian archer and a Port. horseman landed in the Tyrana area (78-4).

Mutawallis rushes the Pentagon in Ugarit, where the eventual cultural expansion will fill a gap.

We fell three more Bowmen around Kummanni (81-4).

In the SE we rout a German MDI, a German archer, a Port. horseman, and a Japanese swordsman (85-4)

Twenty-seven elite victories this round, four of them defensive, produced two Great Leaders.
 
We'll complete the Pentagon when we press Enter, the Heroic Epic in three turns, and the Forbidden Palace in about ten. We're getting some infrastructure built in our core. So we're making progress of a sort, even if it isn't too obvious on the map.

Next turn the workers on the plains tile SW of Kummanni will be able to build a road, and we'll have proper lateral communications in the area. After that we should be able to advance on Mari and raze it, though not until the sword army gets an added MDI.

Worker Pump (Almost :D) Only is functioning well as a five-turn settler factory, but it needs constant attention, especially if Karatepe is to get as many good tiles as possible.

There were three AI landings on the marsh tile E of Tyrana during my round, and another nearby. So we need to keep more than the minimum garrison in the area, including at least one MDI.

The Bab galley off our west coast is a new development, so I don't know what it might do.

We have three settlers at the front to take advantage of opportunities--one in Kummanni, one near Karhuyuk, and one in Samuha.

The Sumerians have taken the Arab city they were hammering away at, so they'll probably start attacking us in earnest now.

We need to get a second unit into Wonder City as soon as is practical, so that we can send the specialist there back to real work.
 
One at a time:

GR12-900AD.JPG
 
85-4 :wow:

I think bab spearmen astound me more than units getting away from the fight, to be honest. "Let's build units without defensive bombard at the same cost - and without any real attacking capacities"

I take it the ticket is now to march weswards towards Sun Tzu. Not feeling 100% tonight, will look into it tomorrow. Do you think we can pull a few MDI's from the fields into the armies? Their attack would go from 5.25 to 7.25, which is not to be overlooked.
 
Great work NP. 2 MGL are what we deserve for a long time. With 4 unit armies, we will be much safer. We could currently afford 5 armies, but if we expand, this should go up.
But, I would be very careful about Sumer coming in numbers. They certainly are still GA fuelled since they fought the Arabs and EW are dirt cheap units. They do have iron, but are luckily still backwards.
But, they have a huge number of cities (24 that is :eek: ), so I'd say they are a huge threat.

I would slowly expand east and trying to hold the southern lines. We need to capture Sun Tzu for sure, we are lucky that Babs built it. I would also put 3 units into wonder city for MP duty (built cheap pikes for that).

Actually I would like us to not connect salt later on so we can profit from cheap pikes rather than the very expensive muskets. We do however need horses as knight armies are really good for us.
 
The only problem with going after Babylon first is that we know they don't have horses. I would be more inclined to wait on Babylon and go after a civ that does have horses. As soon as we have the horses we switch to get Sun Tzu.

I just think the horses are going to be higher priority that even Sun Tzu nice though that is.

Have we seen any Horses yet?
 
Beorn-eL-Feared said:
Do you think we can pull a few MDI's from the fields into the armies?

Yes, we have just enough. There's an asterisked MDI near Samuha which should go into one of the armies there. The other two armies can receive veteran MDI.

To answer Greebley's question, we haven't seen horses.

I agree with Greebley that to concentrate on the Babs, when they do have the Great Wall and don't have horses, would be unrewarding. We should raze and replace Mari to round off our position in the southwest, but after that our priority should be to find horses, even if it means sending an army off into the fog on a pure reconnaissance mission.
 
Didn't notice they had TGW, so that's another weight against going for them. Sounds good, to the SE and the arabic horses we go, hopefully.
 
>>> The save on turn 8, no move done yet <<<

Pre-Turn:
Even out a few odd shields on the MM front

IT
Looks like the babs galley was a settler pair, it's headed westwards to the island.
No action.

T1.
Pestkilling in the E, making way for the siege on Mari in the W [4-0]
Pentagon finishes in Ugarit, I load a MDI in the sword army and the wounded MDI one
Venture a spear 1 tile further east for exploration,

IT
... but he finds a german MDI stack [5-1]
The sumerians send 14 gifts, a catapult amidst them, the germans 12 and the babs half a dozen. Fun ahead.



T2.
FYI, it seems that loading a unit into an army counts as a movement: I loaded a MDI into our injured army at Samura last turn and the army hasn't healed.
The rest of the greetings goes according to plan [12-1]

IT
Oh my, Sumeria just went crazy on units



The 2 other stacks also have catapults and horsemen in them. Catapults are yummy, but if they care to bring 5+ along to the front, they're big. Way big. And knights are coming soon. :hmm:
There's a 4th force out of sight in the babs' borders, which is comparable in size.
Finally, the babs' boat drop a single bowman by Ugarit,

T3.
... fortunately, they received the proper welcoming rites in the hands of veteran maces.
So did everyone else, for that matter. [23-1]
Mace army 1, still at 3 men, is redlined by a 2/3 german mace. Back to the barracks - which I cash rush in Samuha for that purpose.

The Sum point stack is down to 4 units, 1 cat.

IT
Sums keep pushing, I sure hope this is a one-time big bang of units.

T4.
Everything goes well in the east, the germans are mostly thwarted [28-1]
We manage to capture the bulk of the Sum pults, which is well worth the eArcher loss to a 2/3 EW IMO [36-2]

IT
Yet more sumerians approach

T5.
The east goes picture perfect, the germans are stalled and the first foot division heads W-NW for the Sum invasion.[41-2]
This turn the west troops are dedicated to bowmen chasing, bombing and stalling [48-2]
Swords army healing on place for a turn rather than going after a bowmen and an EW.

T6.
Stalling and healing in the east [51-2]
Crush a few odd japs and babs in the west[58-2]
I send the first mace division after Mari for, at least, a bit of pillage and distraction. First time I have some units unmoved in the W, so I send them with a settler to, hopefully, follow the 1st army to a siege on Mari.

So far, there are about 4 stacks of Sum troops left, each being 5-8 EW and as many swords.

T7.
Keep trimming the Sum forces, lose a vMace on a 2/5 sword though [71-3]
The Army-on-Mari plan dies in the egg for now, there's too many stacks blocking the way to get through. I guess they like the armies' free bombard on passing units.

IT
The germans decide they attack a fortified vPike on a hill with injured maces - and take it out [73-4]

The Sums recall their troops. Most of them anyways. Someone else is getting the :whipped:



T8.
Time to hold on and reflect about it.

 
This is turn 8, and the beginning of it. No unit has been moved at all. I know this is really unorthodox, but the sumerians have visibly just started another war and, considering the power charts, we need to take advantage of that fact one way or another.

I followed NP's advice of filling up armies, which did good on defense, but didn't allow for much expansive pushing. We simply got nailed by the sumerian army. Every core city, or just about, is making Maces to that effect. FP is due in a turn, micro will need a good re-visiting.

But the major point of this stopping is: what do we do with the sumerians? do we send an army to follow them into their territory to pillage and raze? Do we grab a few dozen tiles more agressively while the pressure is relieved?

With three armies and without the Sums harrassing us, there's no reason why the expansion shouldn't continue as it did during the 2 previous sets. I'm sorry I couldn't take the fight into germany, troops were needed to hold Sumer off. But this changes for the next few turns.

Hopefully it isn't a phony AI war and they do remain at home for a few turns. How involved we wish to go into this is your call, guys, but I certainly like the idea of sending our 1 Mace 3 swords army to pillage and raze.
 
Fine work against the Sumerians, Beorn. :thumbsup: They brought a ridiculous number of units for monarch, but I suppose it's the result of the huge map. Our Leader luck seems to have reverted to wretched, even with the HE. :(

Greebley said:
Since it is the weekend, I put Gozpel up next. Then you can go Markh.

Oops, Gozpel has withdrawn from the game on grounds of computer inadequacy, at least for the moment. So Mark, go ahead.
 
I'd say we try and get rid of Mari and then expand towards South, where Spain and their horses should be (hopefully). I would only send an army out once we have 5 or more of them. This game is horrible in terms of MGL's.

And, Beorn, great kill ratio, fine job in keeping those hordes at bay (EW are 10 shields only and with that many units, their research is stalled, no wonder)
 
Thanks guys, but I only did my duty :salute: ;)

I must have had around 20 elite victories, so you're well overdue for a MGL, Markh. HE is online, go get 'em :hammer:
 
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