GR12 - AWM vs 30 civs, Pangea

[Greebley]

Here are some of the details of the map. I went back to the first game and dug up the details:
The one thing I am not sure about is if planes have extended moves. I didn't see it mentioned so I think they are the same.
The boat movement will matter less given that this is Pangea.
Note that the maximum distance that you can Airlift units may enter this game. That has confused me in the past.

1) Tech Rate to 650. (for all map sizes)
2) OCN is at 28. (for all map sizes)
3) Changed scenario properties to allow all 31 civs.
4) Changed size of huge map to 250X250.
5) Naval movement changes
Unit:
Curragh - 2 - 2 no change
Galley - 3 - 3 no change
Dromon - 3 - 3 no change
Carrack - 4 - 5 (+1)
Caravel - 4 - 5 (+1)
Galleon - 4 - 5 (+1)
Frigate - 5 - 6 (+1)
Man-O-War - 5 - 6 (+1)
Privateer - 5 - 7 (+2)
Ironclad - 3 - 5 (+2)
Destroyer - 8 - 9 (+1)
Cruiser - 6 - 7 (+1)
Battleship - 5 - 7 (+2)
Carrier - 7 - 7 no change
Transport - 6 - 7 (+1)
Submarine - 4 - 5 (+1)
Nuclear Sub - 5 - 7 (+2)
Aegis Cruiser - 7 - 9 (+2)

 

[vmxa]

Preliminaries:
· Optimal City Number (OCN) is the number in the "Optimal Number of Cities (Corruption)" entry for the world size of the map.
· Palace Cost (PC) is a multiple of 100 shields with a minimum value of 300 and a maximum value of 1000.
· Number of Cities (NC) is the current number of cities the player has

Summary:

Palace cost is 300 shields until you have a number of cities equal to 2/3 of OCN. At that point it becomes 400 shields and continues to rise by 100 shields for every additional OCN/6 cities you get until it hits 1000 shields at 5/3 OCN which is the maximum. A side effect of this is that the Palace will cost 600 shields if you are at OCN. If you understand that, the rest will probably just confuse you, so you should stop reading Otherwise, continue to the gory details.

1. What number of cities will result in a given Palace cost?

Formula:
Code:
Note that PC is never less than 300 nor more than 1000

PC * OCN
Minimum NC = INT( -------- + .5)
600

In other words, (PC * OCN / 600), rounded up.
Table:
Code:
Palace Minimum Number
Cost of Cities
------ --------------
300 1
400 OCN*4/6
500 OCN*5/6
600 OCN*6/6 = OCN
700 OCN*7/6
800 OCN*8/6
900 OCN*9/6
1000 OCN*10/6
Examples:
Note that this formula corresponded exactly to the results of my tests with 3 different OCNs.
Code:
PC-> 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1000
OCN
Expected 4 1 3 3 4 5 5 6 7
Actual 4 1 3 N/A 4 5 N/A 6 7

Expected 18 1 12 15 18 21 24 27 30
Actual 18 1 12 15 18 21 24 27 30

Expected 36 1 24 30 36 42 48 54 60
Actual 36 1 24 30 36 42 48 54 60

2. What will be the Palace cost if I have a given number of cities?

Formula:
Code:
IF (NC < OCN*2/3), PC = 300

ELSE IF (NC >= OCN*5/3), PC = 1000

( 6 * NC )
ELSE, PC = INT(--------) * 100
( OCN )
Examples:
Again, the formula and observed 3 tests are identical; only 1 column for each is shown for simplicity. Note that the first 2 tests were stopped at 40 cities.
Code:

NC OCN-> 4 18 36
-- ---- ---- ----
1 300 300 300
2 300 300 300
3 400 300 300
4 600 300 300
5 700 300 300
6 900 300 300

7 1000 300 300
8 1000 300 300
9 1000 300 300
10 1000 300 300
11 1000 300 300
12 1000 400 300

13 1000 400 300
14 1000 400 300
15 1000 500 300
16 1000 500 300
17 1000 500 300
18 1000 600 300

19 1000 600 300
20 1000 600 300
21 1000 700 300
22 1000 700 300
23 1000 700 300
24 1000 800 400

25 1000 800 400
26 1000 800 400
27 1000 900 400
28 1000 900 400
29 1000 900 400
30 1000 1000 500

31 1000 1000 500
32 1000 1000 500
33 1000 1000 500
34 1000 1000 500
35 1000 1000 500
36 1000 1000 600

37 1000 1000 600
38 1000 1000 600
39 1000 1000 600
40 1000 1000 600
41 600
42 700

43 700
44 700
45 700
46 700
47 700
48 800

49 800
50 800
51 800
52 800
53 800
54 900

55 900
56 900
57 900
58 900
59 900
60 1000

 

[ThERat]

main issue now are the many AI units, we might want to block those pesky spears from entering our territory, I would form a wall of units in the west once we have enough units.

the palace prebuild can always get adjusted

 

[vmxa]

Sorry that did not come out so well. I have attached the word doc, don't remember where I got this one.

 

[Greebley]

Ya, I did remember it correctly 19 is about 4/6 of 28.

Oh, I got it BTW.

I am a fan of unit walls. I will look into it.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Good going markh, the neither catapults nor iron situation is starting to show. Without catapults, at this point, odds are we'll get around a 2/3 score - so while 3/4 is bad in itself, it's a good outcome given the situation.

I'm for keeping the palace build up as is, and if we really screw it up, we can always starve the city a bit, work flat grasses, etc. There's been a lot of effort onto it and it should be maintained IMHO.

I wonder, however, if we should work on a contingency tech plan or stop research after Lit and wait to reap the techs out of it. I rarely build GLB, so I wouldn't know.

About the slaves and opponent count, so long as we are not king of our domain, I'd like to see the backyards filled. When we have more control, an army or two, catapults and a good road network to the front, it could be worth it to disband a few towns back there. The wall could be a neat idea; they seemed to want our dyes pretty hard during my set.

 

[ThERat]

I agree with Beorn about abandoning some cites later on. But that will be much later.
We should mark those cities that we do not need to develop and simply disband later on and not develop any infra there.

For now, it's more cities = better anyway

 

[Greebley]

ThERat,

Can we swap? I have had a nasty headache all night and may end up working late tomorrow. I should be able to play this weekend though after you.

 

[Northern Pike]

Thanks for the elaborate treatise on palace costs, Vmxa.

 

[ThERat]

ok, will try and slot this in tonight, which suits me better anyway as I have a full day event going on at work tomorrow (saturday)
thus, the AI will feel my wrath at this moment

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
prebuild check, currently 300shields, the GL is 400 shields, so even after our research we still have around 12 turns to go (9*12)
we do have 12 cities with 3 more coming up soon, we might be able to reach 18 cities before the prebuild expires

MM Ugarit to get archer in 1 turn and not waste any shields

IT defeat 2 units on defense [2-0]

1. 70AD
kill an archer next to wonder city, no leader [3-0]
estalish wall of units between Aleppo and Ankuwa

IT, we better get cats faster as the first swords show up

2. 90AD
there are now 5 Spanish archers next to Spite [7-0]
decide to attack them, take out 4, and promote on archer to elite

found 2 more cities

IT no attacks, we get the FP message, I rather we finally get an army

3. 110AD
now we have 2 swords next to Spite, attack, lose e-archer but take out both [9-1]
whip walls in wonder city since there are 4 units next to it

IT defeat 3 units at Washington and wonder city [12-1]
maths is in
writing currently in 9

4. 130AD
take out another sword at Spite
attack spear at wonder city and we get what we really need

fill army with 2 archers and defeat another archer with it [15-1]

IT no attacks but quite a few babs units show up in the west

5. 150AD
take out an intruder spear
army takes out a spanish settler pair on hill but gets wounded quite a bit
take out yet another sword at Spite [18-1]

IT take out 2 archers but lose a spear in spite [20-2]

6. 170AD
in order to speed up iron connection, use slaves to form colony to get instant road
then found Irontown
take out 1 spear near wondercity [21-2]

7. 190AD
take out 2 archers, but lose one [23-3]
swap buils so we can switch to swords as soon as it is connected

IT no attacks but more and more unis show up including a spanish horse

8. 210AD
9 babs units next to Ankuwa
take out 1 spear + sword but lose 1 archer in the process [25-4]
we have 5 defenders in Ankuwa now

IT wow, this is nerve wrecking, we go 6:0 on defense, but more units show up
we get 2 swords [31-4]

9. 230AD
attack units, go 4:1 (unfortunately babs surely now enjoy their GA) [35-5]
we get another MGL !!!
we really need this sword army to help out cleaning up all those units

IT defeat a babs warrior [36-5]

10. 250AD
found Ivriz in the east to fill the last gap
we need some defense there since there is a galley around
use archer army to defeat 2 units in the east, but wounded heavily
defeat 3 archers there as well with units from both Spite and wonder city
defeat sword at Spite [42-5]

sword army is filled with 2 units and a third is now right below to fill next turn

writing is due in 3 turns, the palace in 16 turns, might be just right

the messy front

future expansion

if we get more leaders, we should rush FP, HE and pentagon in wonder city to really make sure borders expand

edit: wrong kill ratio, corrected now

 

[Northern Pike]

That sounds good.

 

[Greebley]

Well played ThERat. That is an excellent kill ratio for only having Archers and Spears. We now have Armies, Catapults, and Swords which will really turn the tide.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Swords army

I'd go HE first in wonder city, FP isn't a huge deal atm and the earlier the HE, the better.

 

[Greebley]

I got it BTW. Hope to play today.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Things look stretched a bit thin. I try to reinforce our front line but no units are Available. ThERat has done the best we can with what we have, so nothing moved.
I do change Spite and Wonder city to Catapults. Barracks take too long nice though the instant-heal is.

IBT: Our Elite Spear in Wonder City goes to 1 hp. The next Archer Kills our Archer Army. BTW, I think I prefer Spear Armies over Archer Armies in general. They can either hold a single location or go out and pillage.

260 AD: Kill an Archer and 2 Spear.

IBT: Spear in Wonder city was back to 3 hp but still lost vs a 3 hp Archer.

270 AD: Work hard to save our road to the Iron. Kill 2 Bowmen, Spear, and Archer.
Spite is under heavy attack. It is as well defended as I can make it.

IBT: I have been playing too much Civ4. We embarrasingly run out of money and lose a Barracks. Sigh.
Lose 2 Spear and an Archer killing a whole bunch of Archers.

280 AD: Sword Army is in Spite. We get a Great Leader! I build a second (sword) Army since we lost the Archer army.
For the first time our towns are relatively safe, though there are more Babylons on the way. The only town with enemies within our territory is Spite.

IBT: Kill some Archers on Defense.

290 AD: Healing turn.

IBT: Mor Babs near the town. A Spanish force starts into our territory.

300 AD: Kill 2 Bowmen. Kill the Spanish force of a Spear and 2 Archers. Kill a swordsman.

IBT: Units advance on us - A lot of sword so I am glad for the Sword Army.

310 AD: Kill a Horse and Sword. Other army Heals.

IBT: Quiet.

320 AD: Another set of Bowmen to kill. We are also getting action near the wonder city again. We now are getting some Catapults so no losses.

330 AD: Attack the nearby Babylon town and kill a Spear
We get another Leader. I build a 3rd Sword Army. We can now switch to the Pentagon if we fail to get the GLib.

However Babylon is building Sun Tzu so we are way behind in tech and need the GLib.

340 AD: Attack Bab town again, but am down on HP so I step back onto the road.
3rd Sword army has 2 swords in it A few random units killed.

350 AD: A recently built settler reaches the front and can build a town. I suggest one of the forest towns to the West of Spite.

Notes:
It was really sad. My Civ3 skills were rusty. Got disorder more than once and ran out of cash. Apologies for the less than stellar play (though my combat skills seems intact - I didn't keep exact count but the results were pretty good.

I will include a picture of the front. WIth 3 Armies we should definitely send out one to sack Babylon towns. They are growing quickly

I sent out Curragh out until it spotted an unknown border. I disbanded it so it wouldn't meet a boat for that civ.

I would MM.

It occurs to me we can change the palace prebuild to Pentagon and not need to wait for Lit to reach 300. I believe we can get the GLib a turn or twol earlier if we do this.

File is too large to attach:
The save

 

[Greebley]

Gozpel, Apologies for not asking you if wanted to play first. I had forgotten that little detail when I grabbed the game.

Roster:
Greebley - Just Played
ThERat - Swap
Northern Pike - Up
Beorn-eL-Feared - On Deck
markh
Gozpel

 

[ThERat]

Greebley, your turns were well played The amount of units is massive and we better get back in the tech game, MDI's, pike etc won't be nice. We know that Spain has horses for sure. We have to get there eventually.

As for the short term, I would expand south to get wonder city out of the limelight. I would stop making cats in wonder city and swap to a palace. If we want to have a chance in this game, we need SunTzu or KT and the enemy started on SunTzu already. Thus, we need to develop wonder city faster. We can only do so, if we get it out of the frontline.

Let's hope we get the GL in 2 turnsets. Good luck NP.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Looks really good, greebley, nothing to seriously frown upon or be ashamed of. One thing I wonder though is wether or not it would be good to change one or two cat builds on the fronts to make reg spears, just so as to cover the iron and the 2-3 towns around. Ankuwa and washington could do that and get vets out, too. I take it we need the pults though, so I'll trust NP on that call.

 

[Greebley]

Actually when I switched them pults we had a real shortage. Now we are doing better in terms of # of cats and NP may very well want to build something else.