Graveyards are an Abomination.
- Thread starter IAM
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1. You can get into the ground a lot cheaper. I'm all in favor of 50 $ caskets.
I don't see why that'd mean you have to get rid of graveyards.
You could have them without the bodies in the first place.
2. Well, Mastromino did 5 of his 58 years. The latter being a pretty clear violation of the 8th amendment in my book. But what do i know, seeing there is this ocean in the way...
3. Graveyards are roughly the only beautiful parks we have. And you want to get rid of them?
You want more space? Ban golf.
Never use Singapore as example for anything.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I don't want to remove it from grieving, that obviously requires an emotional element.
I don't think you really read what I wrote if that's what your response is.
I cleaned the kitchen, looked into a broken garage opener, made dinner, and am about to work on an update to my Thailand thread. Then I have to prepare for a meeting tomorrow morning, clean the bathroom, and claim some things online so that I get some of my goddamn money back. Then I think I'm going to take a break.
It's productive but these civ/reddit breaks are a must. They keep me sane. But then I get drawn into long discussions and I feel bad about not following everything and keeping up.
These are totally 1st world problems, I know
metatron said:
Graveyards are way too depressing to make for good parks. As for banning golf, you may be onto something there
IAM
Emperor
'Hills' is a relative term. In a coastal area like I live in a any elevation is called a hill. A 4 or 8 foot high hill could save people and a structure from flooding. In low areas like the east coast or gulf states graveyards are typically built on these 'hills'.
IAM
Emperor
1-"human corpse: freeze-dry it, shatter the brittle corpse into white powder, then compost"
http://www.mnn.com/money/sustainabl...-burial-how-to-turn-a-human-body-into-compost
2- I understand there are legal organ donor issues. As anything with the government they just make organ donarship a requirement for military, a license, etc. so technically it's not mandatory.
3- Golf courses are a banal use of space but are just a fade compared to graveyards. PLus graveyards offend on many levels not just space usage. Singapore is used as an example simply because they have been a highly urbanized country for a while.
I guess that's one way of looking at it.
I was being completely serious. This is why I recommend people allow their backyards to grow partially wild. Lawns are huge source of monoculture. The benefit of any nearby natural preserves (which will go down as a result of climate change) will be higher the more 'native' habitats are around it. That's just the nature of extinctions. There will just be some species that thrive more or 'hold on by their toenails' more easily if there's a larger habitat or a larger native ecology. Or even native-esque.
Sometimes people like the look of 'non-native' plants around their houses. It's not that it's 'bad', it's just that they're 'not good'. Now, with edge effects, non-native diversity will always be better than monoculture, but that's about it. Non-native approaches monoculture for all intents and purposes. Unless native organisms can either thrive or (at least) benefit from the non-native plant, it might as well not be there. Now, that said, nature is diverse, so there will always be native organisms wherever you look.
I tend to think in terms of extinctions, where the primary cause is shrinking habitats and knock-on effects. Who knows what the critical linchpin species is in your area? As well, because of natural selection 'buying time' while a species holds on by its toenails can be of benefit. So, the native wasp who barely holds on due to your flowerbed is going to be food for some aphid that feeds some native bird that surely cannot live in your flowerbed. There're are a LOT of species that are currently holding on by their toenails, because habitats are shrinking. The preserves are mostly just a noble attempt, but they're insufficient.
I might be wrong, but it seems to me that a proper freeze-drying could take up just as much (or nearly as much) energy as a cremation.
It's a bit rough traditionally. Graveyards are a strong historic tradition, but from a time when population sizes (and thus death rates) were much, much lower. So, sadly, this might be one of those areas where "the free market solves it". As the price of graveyard space goes up, economical alternatives will be more and more sought by grieving relatives. We haven't buried someone in my family for more than a couple decades, and the last burials were of family members living in small-town Saskatchewan. I currently live in a city (Halifax) with a great deal of space devoted to graveyards, but they're (seemingly) mostly full. I don't know what the city-folk do with their deceased loved ones.
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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My dad is the sexton for a couple small cemeteries. I think they look for relatives with plots outside the city if they can find any, then plant them out here. At least some of the time. The double-stacked plot isn't super common yet(or even more) outside of places like Arlington, but there is no reason to see why it wouldn't catch on like old-fashioned central stones with a ring of "mother" "father" "daughter" "son" ministones surrounding it used to be more popular. Plus cremated remains of an entire family, particularly doublestacked, take up way less space. You can fit a very modest marker for an entire immediate family. And that's not even getting into mausoleums. I just don't know that "traditional" options are anywhere near unfeasible yet, but yar, I do agree that expense is what's likely to drive this. Regarding monoculture though, it seems to me that a cemetery is more likely to engage in healthful diverse and native plant life, in a lightly visited format, than are lawns or agricultural fields. I mean, least round here, the cemeteries are chock full of old, developed, trees and shrubs. The grass isn't natural, true, but it's better for your purposes than are the fields, and the next runner up on usefulness would be ditches, except that Illinois Highways has decided those need to be mowed for whatever reason, so even those aren't that good. That leaves creeks and fence rows.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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Yes I did. You're wanting to apply cold, hard logic to a situation and practice that it doesn't apply to, and can't really apply to almost by definition. That's not realistic and isn't going to happen.
Which makes the death of one man not such a big sacrifice worthy of worship.
Anyway, I am working on zoning laws so that there will not be a graveyard allowed within several miles of my Pyramid.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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Do they? Really? Maybe I just have my head buried in the sand, but I can't recall ever hearing any desperate clamour for the removal of graveyards because people find them so offensive, or seen the swarms of people crammed into high-rise ghettos, wistfully overlooking all the luxurious, sprawling graveyards all over the place, and going on marches demanding to use the space.
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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Wouldn't it be more impressive if only graveyards were allowed within a mile of your pyramid?
Coffin up a lot a money fol a graveyard space seems like a waste.
I can see all that. We're at unprecedented population sizes, so we'll certainly see an evolution of the traditions. As you say, the overall footprint needn't nearly be all that impressive. I think my car takes up more space than all four of my grandparents do.
I hope it will be a long, long time before cemeteries are put onto some type of short-list when it comes to thinking about monoculture! Now, I think that 'backyards' are in the 'low-hanging fruit' designation when it comes to slowing extinction - certainly in a way that grainfields aren't.
IAM
Emperor
Couldn't really find comparative figures but hypothetically assuming they are the same there would be a fertilizer benefit to the freeze drying process.
IAM
Emperor
When I said graveyards are offensive in many ways a better word may have been harmful in more ways than just land usage.
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
You think an overgrown vacant lot is wildland? I think you need to get out of the city a bit more.
I agree with the dissenting voice here. Many cemeteries are very nice places with gardens and ponds. Of all the things people do to make the planet unsustainable I think cemeteries is very low on the list.
Got to agree with Bugfatty on this too. I don't think letting a park go wild will be very attractive. A vacant lot with overgrown grass and vermin isn't exactly the great wilderness.
Got to agree with Bugfatty on this too. I don't think letting a park go wild will be very attractive. A vacant lot with overgrown grass and vermin isn't exactly the great wilderness.
You think an overgrown vacant lot is wildland? I think you need to get out of the city a bit more.
No, it's not wildland, but it will have a higher number of native species (if, I'll grant, invasive species are actively battled). When it comes to the extinction rates, an increase in the area of native-esque habitats will slow the extinction rates of those species that don't actually live in that vacant lot (if only because they are receiving ecosystem services from that lot)
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