Here's my offer on flag-burning!

[Bozo Erectus]

Gay marriage? Flag burning ammendment? What the ---? Oh yeah I forgot, its an election year, and the Republicans have to reactivate their androids in the Bible Belt.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

My name is Prince Of Leigh and I endorse the following statement:

The US Flag is a symbol of Freedom. To burn the Flag is a horrible act that shouldn't be done. However, making it illegal would be far more dispicable and dangerous, as instead of destroying a symbol of Freedom it would destroy Freedom itself.

 

[silver 2039]

Burning a flag is a form of protest and that is freedom of speech, and expression something that should not be infringed upon. The flag may represent the nation but when it comes down to it all it is a piece of cloth.
The nation is more than just a piece of cloth represented by the flag. A nation is many peoples, made up of diffrent backgrounds and ideals and principals. It is the people who truely represent the nation not some flag.

 

[tomsnowman123]

Gay marriage? Flag burning ammendment? What the ---? Oh yeah I forgot, its an election year, and the Republicans have to reactivate their androids in the Bible Belt.

Hah, tis true.

 

[King Flevance]

Chances are the flag was made in China anyway.

LMAO. That was great.

That's why I will go out there and fight for the right for you to stand there and claim that you have the right to desacrate a sacred thing like the flag. For shame.

I got to add in response to the arguement that "People have died for the people to have the right to burn the flag." Then don't let them die in vain and let people burn it. I love when I see the arguement that because people have died for your freedom, you should honor them by forfeiting your freedom.
So did they die for our freedom or not?

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

I love when I see the arguement that because people have died for your freedom, you should honor them by forfeiting your freedom.
So did they die for our freedom or not?

Yet more truthery

 

[tomsnowman123]

I love when I see the arguement that because people have died for your freedom, you should honor them by forfeiting your freedom.
So did they die for our freedom or not?

Don't worry, the government is doing that for us.

Excellent post, though.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

I won't burn a flag nor will I allow anyone in my presence to do such as well. That " Peice of cloth " as a combat veteran means much more to me. I serve with it on my shoulder in combat, I salute it, I may be buried with it.

There are some things in this world that I hold a deep reverance, the flag of my nation is one of them. That I will defend.

 

[silver 2039]

I won't burn a flag nor will I allow anyone in my presence to do such as well. That " Peice of cloth " as a combat veteran means much more to me. I serve with it on my shoulder in combat, I salute it, I may be buried with it.

There are some things in this world that I hold a deep reverance, the flag of my nation is one of them. That I will defend.

This flag represents the nation, but it is the people, and principlas, and ideals, including freedom of speech and expresssion that truly make up the nation? So which do you hold more reverance for the flag which represents that or what truly makes up what the flag represents?

 

[Bronx Warlord]

So which do you hold more reverance for the flag which represents that or what truly makes up what the flag represents?

Just because one has the freedom to do something does not mean one should. I don't think your understnading my mindset, nor do I expect you to. There are lines with me that do not get crossed and burning a flag in my presence in one of them. There are a million and one ways to protest something, when you burn that flag in my mind you are basicly comitting an act of war against the united states IMHO. If I as a Marine am expected to fight till my last breath to prevent that flag from falling into enemy hands, do you really think I am going to let some ******* burn it in my face?

 

[.Shane.]

To be honest being an OTA, I shouldn't have much of an opinion about US Flag burning but I check in on threads like this every now and again to be amused at how you can have such a heated debate about something which in the rest of the civilised world is a complete non-issue.

Trust me, I wish we didn't have to either.

I find it amazing that people get so worked up over a symbol.

Its also funny how many flag-huggers probably violate multiple aspects of flag etiquette.

From the wiki:

Standards of respect
* The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing, unless it is the ensign responding to a salute from a ship of a foreign nation. This tradition comes from the 1908 Summer Olympics in London, where countries were asked to dip their flag to King Edward VII: the American team captain Martin Sheridan refused, famously proclaiming that "this flag dips to no earthly king."[citation needed]
* The flag should be flown upside down only as a distress signal.
* The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speaker's desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.
* The flag should never be drawn back or bunched up in any way.
* The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
* The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed, or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard.
* The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, firefighters, police officers, and members of patriotic organizations. (Note that on military uniforms, where the flag is put on the sleeve of the uniform, the flag patch is displayed with the stars facing forward, in the direction the wearer is facing. This is done to give the impression of the flag flowing in the wind while being carried forward across the battlefield. This is known as the "Reverse Field Flag".)
* The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.
* The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
* The flag should never be spit, urinated, or defecated upon.
* The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle, railroad train, or boat.
* When the flag is lowered, no part of it should touch the ground or any other object; it should be received by waiting hands and arms. To store the flag it should be folded neatly and ceremoniously.
* The flag should be cleaned and mended when necessary.
* When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of the United States, it should be destroyed in a dignified manner, preferably by burning. (Note: Most American Legion Posts regularly conduct a dignified flag burning ceremony, often on Flag Day, June 14.)

Contrary to a commonly believed urban legend, the flag code does not state that a flag that touches the ground should be burned. Instead, the flag should be moved so it is not touching the ground.

(bold mine)

I'm guessing this covers tattoos and beer coozies.

I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.

Also, I've read many of the founding fathers objected to the idea of a flag at all. IIRC they saw it as a symbol of aristocracy that was ripe for abuse. However, they realized the necessity of having a flag for a wide range of practical and needed purposes (mostly having to do w/ the military and foreing relations). I'm sorry, but I can't state this as fact, since I don't recall the work in which I read this and I can't find a citation. If I do, I'll correct this.

 

[RedWolf]

Just because one has the freedom to do something does not mean one should. I don't think your understnading my mindset, nor do I expect you to. There are lines with me that do not get crossed and burning a flag in my presence in one of them. There are a million and one ways to protest something, when you burn that flag in my mind you are basicly comitting an act of war against the united states IMHO. If I as a Marine am expected to fight till my last breath to prevent that flag from falling into enemy hands, do you really think I am going to let some ******* burn it in my face?

So if I try to burn an American flag in your presence you will do what? Kick the crap out of me?

Doesn't that seem a little ridiculous to you? Not to mention anti-social?

 

[.Shane.]

If I as a Marine am expected to fight till my last breath to prevent that flag from falling into enemy hands, do you really think I am going to let some ******* burn it in my face?

Yes, I expect you to. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you take an oath to defend the laws of the land or something like that? As such, flagburning is legal, so if anything you should protect these people from flag-huggers who'd try and pick fights with them for excercising their legal rights.

Also, as you often spout, I thought Marines held themselves to a higher code of conduct? Maybe not.

 

[silver 2039]

* When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of the United States, it should be destroyed in a dignified manner, preferably by burning.

I find this greatly ironic.

 

[RedWolf]

The US Flag is a symbol of Freedom. To burn the Flag is a horrible act that shouldn't be done. However, making it illegal would be far more dispicable and dangerous, as instead of destroying a symbol of Freedom it would destroy Freedom itself.

I have an incredible amount of respect for this opinion. I don't put a lot of weight in symbols and you do - on this we disagree.

However you also believe that we both have the right to disagree. You understand that true freedom applies to all people of all opinions - as oppossed to only the ones you agree with. This is something that "Cheezy the Wiz" doesn't yet have the maturity to see (despite his accusations of immaturity).

The real test of "Freedom of Speech" is how well it stands up to speech you personally find disgusting. If it cannot - you have only a sham instead.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

So if I try to burn an American flag in your presence you will do what? Kick the crap out of me?

Not many people in my presence would even think of trying it. I've never had that line crossed but I dare you to go outside the front gate of any US military base and burn a flag, see how far you get.

Yes, I expect you to. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you take an oath to defend the laws of the land or something like that? As such, flagburning is legal, so if anything you should protect these people from flag-huggers who'd try and pick fights with them for excercising their legal rights.

Yes I did to defend the constiution of the united states. That dosen't mean I am going to sit by and watch you burn the flag I have fought and bled for as well as the flag my comrades have died for. It's a personal line in the sand for me I will not tolerate. Sorry if you don't like it.

Also, as you often spout, I thought Marines held themselves to a higher code of conduct? Maybe not.

A personal attack on myself or my Corps now?

 

[Perfection]

I won't burn a flag nor will I allow anyone in my presence to do such as well. That " Peice of cloth " as a combat veteran means much more to me. I serve with it on my shoulder in combat, I salute it, I may be buried with it.

There are some things in this world that I hold a deep reverance, the flag of my nation is one of them. That I will defend.

I think it's important to note that holding a symbol or artistic work in great reverence doesn't mean you should use congress to legislate the banning of acts that demean it. I understand that such actions would be truely and deeply offensive to you, but I think that one of the great freedoms that America allows is the freedom to be offensive.

 

[.Shane.]

Yes I did to defend the constiution of the united states. That dosen't mean I am going to sit by and watch you burn the flag I have fought and bled for as well as the flag my comrades have died for. It's a personal line in the sand for me I will not tolerate. Sorry if you don't like it.

ROFL, I don't really care. People posing on internet forums never really offends me, unfortunately, I've come to expect it. Oh, and I never said I'd burn a flag. I think its a poor way to make a point. But, I'd also never wear one on my boxers or leather jacket, as I do have respect for it, which most people seem to lack.

A personal attack on myself or my Corps now?

Nope, just seeing the point at which you choose to selectively follow your oath. I'd wager most people, myself included, have a personal point at which we'd invalidate an oath. Personally, it wouldn't be over something so trivial and that at the same time is an expression of liberty.

But... meh.

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

This is purely out of interest, but is such a debate a big thing outside the U.S? I'm not sure about the British take, and I certainly don't know if we have an extensive set of guidelines on how to treat a flag good and proper.

I'm not trying to provoke, I just realised I'm completely unaware of this.

 

[silver 2039]

but is such a debate a big thing outside the U.S?

Here in India its fairly rigid. Some old man made an Indian flag out of paper for his grandson on Repebulic Day, and the neihbors called the police over it. Thats what the papers said anyway. I'm fairly sure that if you burn the Indian flag here you will get violently lynched by a large mob, while the police stand by approvingly.