holy hell that Ukraine stuff

[Broken_Erika]

Well, he is the dumbest, most incompetent president in history.

 

[Estebonrober]

So your proof is his inability to get a business deal done in Russia... The Manchurian Candidate does not attempt!

No my evidence is his Russian coddling in his despair to get a deal done and then people telling the FBI and others that shenanigans were going on in 2015 and 16. You can say until you are blue in the face it doesn't amount to much but it seems to me to be enough to look into it.

 

[red_elk]

From the quoted part it seems he made numerous attempts to do business in Russia, failed and complained that it's hardly possible without "shenanigans".

 

[El_Machinae]

He might be a guy that is not very good at Shenanigans. Remember when he faked a charity donation in order to work around the Cuba embargo? I don't think that went anywhere, either.

 

[red_elk]

He might be a guy that is not very good at Shenanigans.

Useless to the evil Russians due to incompetence.

 

[El_Machinae]

Useless to the evil Russians due to incompetence.

He was the useful idiot. Like I said, they [trump's team] tried to collude, though I don't think that they actually did.

Although, while finding that quote, I realized how hard it is to actually invest billions of dollars in real property. Especially one feels like they have the mandate to grow the wealth in a commodified sense. All the actors you're dealing with will end up being sketchy

 

[Berzerker]

No my evidence is his Russian coddling in his despair to get a deal done and then people telling the FBI and others that shenanigans were going on in 2015 and 16. You can say until you are blue in the face it doesn't amount to much but it seems to me to be enough to look into it.

While you're on the subject of shenanigans, who were these people telling the FBI?

From the quoted part it seems he made numerous attempts to do business in Russia, failed and complained that it's hardly possible without "shenanigans".

No exculpatory evidence in the Fisa application please

 

[Estebonrober]

https://www.nationalreview.com/news...corruption-before-senate-judiciary-committee/


Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) told reporters on Wednesday that he wants Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani to testify before the panel regarding allegations that Joe Biden leveraged his position as vice president to secure a lucrative position for his son on the board of a Ukrainian gas company.

“I’m going to be reaching out to Rudy, writing a letter saying you’re welcome to come to this committee, if you have something you’d like to share about corruption,” Graham told reporters. Giuliani would not be compelled to make an appearance, the Senator added.

Giuliani’s actions have been scrutinized during the impeachment inquiry into President Trump’s conduct regarding Ukraine. Democrats suspect Trump withheld military aid from Ukraine to pressure the country to investigate corruption allegations against political rival Joe Biden and his son Hunter, who sat on the board of the Ukrainian natural gas company Burisma while Joe Biden was handling Ukraine policy as vice president.

I should probably point out here that if this does not work out perfectly for Giuliani and company, the way they have gone about it means they will all end up in jail for being foreign agents.

The GOP is so dumb the stupid lands them in jail systematically. That's what the derisive attitude towards government gets you. . . jail time.

 

[Berzerker]

damn right, only Democrats and bureaucrats get to ignore laws

dont you forget it

 

[El_Machinae]

So, Trump's constitutional rights were infringed. Is that the point?

It would be ironic, then, to support the idea of pushing for an investigation (without cause) in the jurisdiction where Hunter does not have constitutional protections?

I'm all for throwing Biden under the bus. But I want to emphasize that Trump is trying to use extra-national powers for personal gains. In fact, he's taking steps to deprive Biden of constitutional protection using taxpayer dollars.

But, again, it was the announcement that was conditional.

 

[Berzerker]

So, Trump's constitutional rights were infringed. Is that the point?

It would be ironic, then, to support the idea of pushing for an investigation (without cause) in the jurisdiction where Hunter does not have constitutional protections?

I'm all for throwing Biden under the bus. But I want to emphasize that Trump is trying to use extra-national powers for personal gains. In fact, he's taking steps to deprive Biden of constitutional protection using taxpayer dollars.

But, again, it was the announcement that was conditional.

A bunch of people were spied on. Why do you think there is no cause to investigate the Bidens? Delaying aid to Ukraine in exchange for investigating their interference in our election is not an extra-national power, the Democrats were not only working with Ukraine against Trump in the election they were asking them to help with their investigation after the election. If Biden wasn't up to his neck in this scandal Trump would still want to hold Ukraine accountable, would it be okay in that case? The announcement was to ensure the new Ukrainian President was onboard.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

A bunch of people were spied on.

No, a bunch of people were investigated. By a law enforcement agency. Which had warrants. No amount of wildly inaccurate exaggerated language is going to change that.

 

[FriendlyFire]

A bunch of people were spied on. Why do you think there is no cause to investigate the Bidens? Delaying aid to Ukraine in exchange for investigating their interference in our election is not an extra-national power, the Democrats were not only working with Ukraine against Trump in the election they were asking them to help with their investigation after the election. If Biden wasn't up to his neck in this scandal Trump would still want to hold Ukraine accountable, would it be okay in that case? The announcement was to ensure the new Ukrainian President was onboard.

This from the Person that is slamming the FBI for investigating Gulliani for corruption
Gulliani is up to hes neck in this scandal.
would that be ok in that case ?

The criminal wants its "bribe" back

One Of The Giuliani Associates Indicted Over A $325,000 Donation Wants The Money Back, Court Documents Say
The hefty donation came at a key time when both men were mingling with the upper echelons of the Republican Party, dining with President Trump in Washington, meeting with House members, and launching the back-channel effort in Ukraine that would include Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emmaloop/igor-fruman-america-first-donation-return

 

[Berzerker]

No, a bunch of people were investigated. By a law enforcement agency. Which had warrants. No amount of wildly inaccurate exaggerated language is going to change that.

And that isn't spying because? The warrant was obtained illegally.

This from the Person that is slamming the FBI for investigating Gulliani for corruption
Gulliani is up to hes neck in this scandal.
would that be ok in that case ?

I did what?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The warrant was obtained illegally.

As determined by WHO? You??? Some dingbat writer at Breitbarf? President Donnie Dip<feces>? Rather than the abject sensationalizing "it's a crime, it's a crime" babble, how about you start dealing with FACTS. Show me one person charged with committing this well documented "illegal act," much less convicted. YOU CAN'T, because it didn't happen.

 

[Estebonrober]

damn right, only Democrats and bureaucrats get to ignore laws

dont you forget it

Democrats and bureaucrats know and understand the law which is why none of them are in jail right now.

 

[Tristan_C]

It would be ironic, then, to support the idea of pushing for an investigation (without cause) in the jurisdiction where Hunter does not have constitutional protections?

It's not like there were scores of dead bodies lying around, but there was at least some public knowledge, which could stand up to scrutiny, that something was awry about the situations with Biden, Manafort, and Crowdstrike by mid 2019. A pretty decisive difference from the dossier presented to the FISA court to obtain those warrants.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It's not like there were scores of dead bodies lying around, but there was at least some public knowledge, which could stand up to scrutiny, that something was awry about the situations with Biden, Manafort, and Crowdstrike by mid 2019. A pretty decisive difference from the dossier presented to the FISA court to obtain those warrants.

You mean the dossier that was put together by an intelligence professional instead of gleaned from the headlines of Breitbarf and Alex Jones? Yeah, there certainly is a decisive difference.

 

[El_Machinae]

It's not like there were scores of dead bodies lying around, but there was at least some public knowledge, which could stand up to scrutiny, that something was awry about the situations with Biden, Manafort, and Crowdstrike by mid 2019. A pretty decisive difference from the dossier presented to the FISA court to obtain those warrants.

I'm not sure that has anything to do with what I posted. Trump is pushing for the announcement of an investigation in a region where Biden does not have constitutional protection. But this is the same party that liked Syrian torture rendition during the Gulf War. Granted, it's not an Obama drone strike on an American citizen.

I've already linked to Trump's history of announcing investigations for self-aggrandizing purposes.

Trump also thought that the server was in the Ukraine, which indicates maybe how much he knew about the entire situation.

There is no reason to think he didn't have men's Raya 4 treason

I certainly don't mind the idea of going after politicians that have family embroiled in foreign Investments. But I didn't vote for a guy who faked charity in order to get around the Cuba embargo or lied about Russian entanglements during the campaign

 

[Tristan_C]

I'm not sure that has anything to do with what I posted. Trump is pushing for the announcement of an investigation in a region where Biden does not have constitutional protection.

Ah, I see. But Biden has constitutional protection no matter how the Ukrainians would have theoretically investigated him. It would be to the gub'ment in the US, not Ukraine, that he would answer for anything.

Another thing worth pointing out is that the three suspicious things... Manafort, Crowdstrike, and the Bidens... are trivial. Investigations would move the needle against the democrats a point in opinion polling, if that. The pitch being made now, with impeachment, is that asking awkward questions about these topics is something with earth-shattering implications, is selling the nation's government to the highest-bidding foreign power, nailing the "treason and bribery" language in the constitution (which was written out of wariness of the king in England), bad enough to remove the asker from office. Pure nonsense. The last three impeachments have all been trivial, tbh, none of them really had anything to do with governance.