How big is immigration an issue on people's minds (USA and elsewhere)?

[Birdjaguar]

Yeah, "expat" is generally used to describe someone who goes to a place for retirement, temporary white collar work, or being a "digital nomad".
Along with negative connotations of white dudes going to lower income countries to pretend they are 'alpha males' and pick up women.

US Expats by country and gender:

American Expats by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

 

[Arwon]

That isn't "expats", it's just everyone born in the US.

 

[caketastydelish]

Immigrants are hated in the US (I'm American and never lived anywhere else and therefore can't speak for other countries) because people are brainwashed and believe propaganda with no basis in reality.

Immigrants here, both legal and illegal, as a whole, contribute enormously to the economy. Illegal immigrants for example generally work their asses off doing hard labor with no great pay. They also pay taxes without getting benefits a citizen would get such as healthcare social security etc. Many native born American citizens who sit on their asses doing nothing collecting welfare have their entitlement supported specifically because of these immigrants. Legal immigrants, while they do get citizenship benefits, as a whole also contribute enormously to the economy. Many of them are doctors, engineers, successful business people etc because our immigration policy for legal immigrants overwhelmingly favors people with those kinds of skills/money. They work needed jobs, and pay lots of money in taxes. The housing crises in America is a legitimate issue and I'm not here to deny that. Reforms both can and must be done to address it. But "kick out all immigrants" is hardly the solution. As a native born American citizen aware of the facts, my standard of living is improved due to immigrants not worse.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Florida Republican says deportation effort should spare some migrants​

Rep. Maria Elvira Salazar represents a majority Hispanic district in South Florida.

Ali Bianco

01/24/2025, 8:52pm ET

A South Florida Republican is urging President Donald Trump to spare hundreds of thousands of people from Latin America and the Caribbean from his immigration crackdown.

Rep. Maria Elvira Salazar called on the Department of Homeland Security in a letter Friday not to remove people from Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua and Venezuela who were allowed to enter the U.S. by President Joe Biden’s administration under a humanitarian parole program.

“Although President Biden originally created this program on dubious legal grounds and brought individuals here without a plan for their future, they were still enrolled under programs offered to them. Therefore, I believe they should have the ability to see their applications out to rectify their legal status,” Salazar wrote.

Salazar is a Trump ally but the politics of her position make sense. Salazar’s district is majority Hispanic and is home to many people who either came to the country as refugees from Cuba and Venezuela or are descended from people who did.

Trump has pledged to deport millions of noncitizens and said he intends to end the humanitarian programs set up by Biden to ease the migrant crisis at the border. The new administration’s efforts appear to be well underway, with Immigration and Customs Enforcement reporting that it made 593 arrests on Friday.

Politico

 

[Archon8]

Immigrants are hated in the US (I'm American and never lived anywhere else and therefore can't speak for other countries) because people are brainwashed and believe propaganda with no basis in reality.

Immigrants here, both legal and illegal, as a whole, contribute enormously to the economy. Illegal immigrants for example generally work their asses off doing hard labor with no great pay. They also pay taxes without getting benefits a citizen would get such as healthcare social security etc. Many native born American citizens who sit on their asses doing nothing collecting welfare have their entitlement supported specifically because of these immigrants. Legal immigrants, while they do get citizenship benefits, as a whole also contribute enormously to the economy. Many of them are doctors, engineers, successful business people etc because our immigration policy for legal immigrants overwhelmingly favors people with those kinds of skills/money. They work needed jobs, and pay lots of money in taxes. The housing crises in America is a legitimate issue and I'm not here to deny that. Reforms both can and must be done to address it. But "kick out all immigrants" is hardly the solution. As a native born American citizen aware of the facts, my standard of living is improved due to immigrants not worse.

You make reasonable points, but it could be done without characterizing anyone with a problem with illegal immigration as being brainwashed or believing propaganda.

Nobody is trying to eliminate legal immigration. The concern is solely on illegal immigration. What you are saying, "Illegal immigrants for example generally work their asses off doing hard labor with no great pay" is a massive problem. It's called wage stagnation. They are doing jobs that citizens/legal residents don't want to do, but anyone will do any job if the pay is high enough. Allowing illegal immigration keeps an underclass of people as serfs, without legal status and being paid less than what market forces would normally dictate. I'm glad you understand that illegal immigration does cause high increases in rents and home prices. Be advised that it also leads to higher tuition. I agree that legal immigrants contribute enormously, and I continue to support legal immigration, as does everyone else among Trump's supporters. But I consider illegal immigration to have highly negative effects on the economy. You're welcome to disagree, but please don't call me brainwashed or believing propaganda, as I am not going to characterize you in that way despite us having different political views.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Trump has shut down all the legal options for those who want to come here. He stopped all the court hearings and is even reducing the judges that handle border cases. He wants to stop any people crossing into the country unless Musk needs them for tech work. Clearly, Trump would rather have them die than let them in.

 

[innonimatu]

The brainwashing I have been notisking goes along the line "immigration necessary, immigration good for the economy, anyone opposed is a brute".

The fact, known for centuries, is that immigrants are competition for jobs, and always looked on with suspicion by the working class. Those who hold legally protected jobs do not fear them, those who are bosses hiring cheaper immigrant labout will say they're wonderful, those who have them as competitors for wares will see them as a problem or a threat. This is pretty much immutable.

It is not racism, or xenophobia (stupid concept), or "hate" (even more ridiculous). It's economic interests, social status, social position that are the main driver orf reactions to immigratuon. Many people do not waht to talk about that. Especially the ones profiting from immigrants.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The brainwashing I have been notisking goes along the line "immigration necessary, immigration good for the economy, anyone opposed is a brute".

The fact, known for centuries, is that immigrants are competition for jobs, and always looked on with suspicion by the working class. Those who hold legally protected jobs do not fear them, those who are bosses hiring cheaper immigrant labout will say they're wonderful, those who have them as competitors for wares will see them as a problem or a threat. This is pretty much immutable.

It is not racism, or xenophobia (stupid concept), or "hate" (even more ridiculous). It's economic interests, social status, social position that are the main driver orf reactions to immigratuon. Many people do not waht to talk about that. Especially the ones profiting from immigrants.

Clearly, you know nothing about living in the American southwest or rural white America.

 

[Moriarte]

Why stop at illegal immigration? Enormous benefits to be reaped from illegal drugs, counterfeit goods, human trafficking, money laundering and illegal gambling! Stop strangling the small business!!!

Spoiler mhm :

Sarcasm

 

[Birdjaguar]

Why stop at illegal immigration? Enormous benefits to be reaped from illegal drugs, counterfeit goods, human trafficking, money laundering and illegal gambling! Stop strangling the small business!!!

Spoiler mhm :

Sarcasm

BTW, Trump approves of all of those.

 

[Zardnaar]

Employers here have been abusing temporary worker visas.

Recent case involved 22 people. 21 came from a single country well known for it the other one was also an immigrant.

Conviction for modern slavery as well. Once again not originally from here.

Also can be hard to even get those jobs any more. They don't offer them to citizens or put bogus language requirements into the job description. Ticks the box for looking for employees locally.

Nope no candidate could be found speaking Mongolian to run a booze store.

Wasn't like that when I did it late 90s and early 2000's. 8 bucks an hour to do McDonalds vs $12-25 picking fruit. Fast guys were breaking $1000 a week fastest coukd get close to 2k but were probably doing long hours.

 

[Archon8]

Trump has shut down all the legal options for those who want to come here. He stopped all the court hearings and is even reducing the judges that handle border cases. He wants to stop any people crossing into the country unless Musk needs them for tech work. Clearly, Trump would rather have them die than let them in.

This is a temporary measure while the border is secured. It's quite dramatic to say that they will die if they don't get in. They're in Mexico, not North Korea. Mexico is a democracy. These are not refugees fleeing for their life.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Trump has shut down all the legal options for those who want to come here. He stopped all the court hearings and is even reducing the judges that handle border cases. He wants to stop any people crossing into the country unless Musk needs them for tech work. Clearly, Trump would rather have them die than let them in.

This is a temporary measure while the border is secured. It's quite dramatic to say that they will die if they don't get in. They're in Mexico, not North Korea. Mexico is a democracy. These are not refugees fleeing for their life.

Read what I said. You should brush up on the current situations in Venezuela, Haiti and some of the Central American countries. The US southern border has never been secured. What makes you think Trump can do that in 90 days or so?

 

[Archon8]

Read what I said. You should brush up on the current situations in Venezuela, Haiti and some of the Central American countries. The US southern border has never been secured. What makes you think Trump can do that in 90 days or so?

It's not our responsibility to open our borders to the entire world. Let Mexico and Canada step up and take them, I'm done with the US being the only country who is supposed to take care of everyone.

 

[Birdjaguar]

It's not our responsibility to open our borders to the entire world. Let Mexico and Canada step up and take them, I'm done with the US being the only country who is supposed to take care of everyone.

So the US was wrong to let all those Irish, Italians, Germans, Chinese, Swedes, Poles, etc. into the country no questions asked?

 

[Archon8]

So the US was wrong to let all those Irish, Italians, Germans, Chinese, Swedes, Poles, etc. into the country no questions asked?

Maybe? Was the US wrong to enact manifest destiny? We could sit here all day and try to say whether historical actions were good or bad, but I don't live in the past, I live in the present. Currently, today, illegal immigration has led to negative economic effects for citizens, particularly higher rent and housing prices, higher tuition, and wage stagnation. It is in the interest of current citizens to restrict the flow of illegal immigration. Just because my ancestors immigrated here 150 years ago or whenever doesn't make me feel some moral obligation to permanently maintain open borders. Mexico needs to step up and take more "refugees" from the rest of Latin America.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Maybe? Was the US wrong to enact manifest destiny? We could sit here all day and try to say whether historical actions were good or bad, but I don't live in the past, I live in the present. Currently, today, illegal immigration has led to negative economic effects for citizens, particularly higher rent and housing prices, higher tuition, and wage stagnation. It is in the interest of current citizens to restrict the flow of illegal immigration. Just because my ancestors immigrated here 150 years ago or whenever doesn't make me feel some moral obligation to permanently maintain open borders. Mexico needs to step up and take more "refugees" from the rest of Latin America.

What actual evidence do you have that immigrants have raised the price of housing and rents? Taken any well paying job? What is the current unemployment rate? Why are interest rates higher now than 4 years ago? What did immigration do to raise rates? Please link me to an explanation of how immigration has caused wage stagnation or inflation? Why has the US economy for the pat 4 years been one of the best in the world? Please show me a city or state where undocumented immigrants have kept the local workforce from finding good jobs.

 

[Archon8]

What actual evidence do you have that immigrants have raised the price of housing and rents? Taken any well paying job? What is the current unemployment rate? Why are interest rates higher now than 4 years ago? What did immigration do to raise rates? Please link me to an explanation of how immigration has caused wage stagnation or inflation? Why has the US economy for the pat 4 years been one of the best in the world? Please show me a city or state where undocumented immigrants have kept the local workforce from finding good jobs.

It's not that "immigrants take a well paying job." It's rather than when you have a lot of people competing for the same job, then there is wage stagnation. You see this with entry level jobs, or farmworker jobs. The only source you need is supply and demand. If there is a constant demand for entry level jobs, one that exceeds the supply, then there is no incentive to raise the pay on those jobs. Bernie Sanders understands half the issue, that pay for entry level jobs is too low, if only he could piece together the other part, that if Americans were unwilling to do those jobs at those wages, then the wages would inevitably rise until they reached an acceptable level. And it's the same thing with rent, you just have to apply supply and demand... if you have a lot more people coming in and competing for housing, then it will raise the price of housing. Literally no other effect could happen.

 

[Birdjaguar]

It's not that "immigrants take a well paying job." It's rather than when you have a lot of people competing for the same job, then there is wage stagnation. You see this with entry level jobs, or farmworker jobs. The only source you need is supply and demand. If there is a constant demand for entry level jobs, one that exceeds the supply, then there is no incentive to raise the pay on those jobs. Bernie Sanders understands half the issue, that pay for entry level jobs is too low, if only he could piece together the other part, that if Americans were unwilling to do those jobs at those wages, then the wages would inevitably rise until they reached an acceptable level. And it's the same thing with rent, you just have to apply supply and demand... if you have a lot more people coming in and competing for housing, then it will raise the price of housing. Literally no other effect could happen.

Please link me to actual examples of what you are claiming. Minimum wage has doubled in most places in the past 4 years. Where in the US are immigrants taking entry level jobs from locals? Please link me to a state or community where immigrants are driving up the cost of rents or buying a house. Economic theory is all fine and dandy, but unless you can demonstrate it's actual effects, it is just hot air.

Who is it that cannot find work? Where is all this job stealing happening?

 

[Lexicus]

Economic theory is all fine and dandy, but unless you can demonstrate it's actual effects, it is just hot air.

It should be noted that the overwhelming consensus in "economic theory" has looked at exactly this question of whether immigrants drive up prices for various things and found the opposite:

There’s just one problem: This hypothesis is wrong. Economists have studied this question repeatedly, in a variety of contexts and in every segment of the population, and they have found that the demand effect consistently outweighs the supply effect. Simply put, when immigrants come to a place looking for jobs, they also demand goods and services—thus creating jobs for native-born workers. Immigrants need legal services and taxi drivers; they need groceries and cars. The question has always been which effect is bigger. And the literature has resoundingly answered that the demand effect wins out.