How do you end 'cancel culture'?

[GenMarshall]

Because, of course, believing in, or advocating, any sort of ideological point of view other than Trumpism/Alt-Right OR 2010's American Social Progressivism is just an utter impossibility, even for Non-Americans who live in countries with other socio-political ideological, political, and economic factions and concerns, like both @The Civs 6 and myself, right? It just doesn't happen, and anyone claiming to believe anything else MUST be a "closet Alt-Right type," right? At least this is the impression I've been getting from a lot Americans on these forums. The Great American Brainrot in action!

Dude, nobody is calling you or anyone else Alt-Right. Get over yourself.

 

[The Civs 6]

Dude, nobody is calling you or anyone else Alt-Right. Get over yourself.

With all due respect, that's exactly what you just did. Maybe you should do a stealth edit to prove us wrong.

 

[Angst]

Well as much as I hate to spend my expensive billable time looking back at older posts to refresh your memory, I must remind you that you mischaracterized my position as denying any person's right under free speech to protest/speak out against/not purchase things of something or someone with which they disagree.

I read your posts.

I pointed out that denouncement or even firings or social exclusion are a necessary possibility under free speech. Sure, you said that you wanted people to think what they wanted, but you also wrote a lot of other things that made it very questionable that you actually believed that. So let's go: You said no to witch hunts. Literal witch hunts, as in lynching, does not fall under free speech, but metaphorical ones do to a degree. You wanted no judgment or control, which are both within social enforcement. And if we follow through on your logic of boycotts, someone getting fired because of an angry consumer base is just market mechanics caring about the angry 10%, which if actually being 10% is definitely a sizable consumer base I'd want myself, not "crypto-communism" as you claimed, nor is it thought policing when it's not state enforced. I guess I should have answered the crypto-communism post itself, but I guess I am not as experienced a debater as you, I tend to spend time remembering what people write, myself included, and may not refer to it directly. But my time isn't that expensive or billable.

Like, you could literally just skip back a few pages and see my whole position outlined in a single post, but it would be unfair to your expensive billable time. I understand that. It's important to stop the crypto-communist Twitter thought police, but I'd suggest that if your billable time is so expensive, and if you don't actually think what I made a short prompt about, maybe don't write it.

 

[The Civs 6]

I read your posts.

I pointed out that denouncement or even firings or social exclusion are a necessary possibility under free speech. Sure, you said that you wanted people to think what they wanted, but you also wrote a lot of other things that made it very questionable that you actually believed that. So let's go: You said no to witch hunts. Literal witch hunts, as in lynching, does not fall under free speech, but metaphorical ones do to a degree. You wanted no judgment or control, which are both within social enforcement. And if we follow through on your logic of boycotts, someone getting fired because of an angry consumer base is just market mechanics caring about the angry 10%, which if actually being 10% is definitely a sizable consumer base I'd want myself, not "crypto-communism" as you claimed, nor is it thought policing when it's not state enforced. I guess I should have answered the crypto-communism post itself, but I guess I am not as experienced a debater as you, I tend to spend time remembering what people write, myself included, and may not refer to it directly. But my time isn't that expensive or billable.

Like, you could literally just skip back a few pages and see my whole position outlined in a single post, but it would be unfair to your expensive billable time. I understand that. It's important to stop the crypto-communist Twitter thought police, but I'd suggest that if your billable time is so expensive, and if you don't actually think what I made a short prompt about, maybe don't write it.

I mean how much more clear can I be? There is a difference between me saying "NFL players shouldn't kneel" and me saying "I'm fine with NFL players kneeling but I don't agree with the message they are sending". How do you not get this?

I dislike the ideology they are espousing, very much. That should be clear. But that doesn't mean I think they should stop espousing it.

And your sarcasm detector is off.

 

[Angst]

I mean how much more clear can I be? There is a difference between me saying "NFL players shouldn't kneel" and me saying "I'm fine with NFL players kneeling but I don't agree with the message they are sending". How do you not get this?

And your sarcasm detector is off.

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot to turn it back on. When you're not an experienced debater, you tend to forget these things.

Moment.

There.

Now that we both have our sarcasm detectors on, we shouldn't be wasting your expensive billable time anymore!

Hooray for the big bad rightists.

Anyhow. I'm saying that your two examples are both statements that are necessarily possible within free speech. It's part of its primary mechanism. I happen to like free speech. Or maybe I pretend to because I'm a crypto-communist?

 

[The Civs 6]

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot to turn it back on. When you're not an experienced debater, you tend to forget these things.

Moment.

There.

Now that we both have our sarcasm detectors on, we shouldn't be wasting your expensive billable time anymore!

Hooray for the big bad rightists.

Anyhow. I'm saying that your two examples are both statements that are necessarily possible within free speech. It's part of its primary mechanism. I happen to like free speech. Or maybe I pretend to because I'm a crypto-communist?

I don't think you are getting the point at all. I'm saying the former statement, that NFL players "shouldn't be allowed to kneel" (which you are accusing me of saying, essentially, with regards to cancel culture) I agree is a problematic one because it is opposed to the spirit of free speech. But the latter statement, is not a problematic one. And time and time again I have said I am of the latter mindset.

I can't believe I had to spell that out dude.

 

[Patine]

Dude, nobody is calling you or anyone else Alt-Right. Get over yourself.

Do you want to bet? Do I have to dig up the literal treasure trove on this OT forum of posters presumptuously declaring, right out of whole cloth, with no evidence, and often ignoring evidence to the contrary, other posters being "Trumpists," or "Alt-Right," to their virtual faces, seemingly as a brazen tactic of slander, disingenuous discreditation, and even rhetorical invective and personal insult. You might be amazed at how many such posts I could dig up without too much effort. And, I believe that you were the author of a number of said posts.

 

[Angst]

I don't think you are getting the point at all. I'm saying the former statement, that NFL players "shouldn't be allowed to kneel" (which you are accusing me of saying, essentially, with regards to cancel culture) I agree is a problematic one because it is opposed to the spirit of free speech. But the latter statement, is not a problematic one. And time and time again I have said I am of the latter mindset.

I can't believe I had to spell that out dude.

Except that free speech entails being able to say that you think someone shouldn't be allowed to do something. I get that you're probably spending a lot of time to spell out things, but it's also fruitful spending time to read. Since, you know. That's what I wrote.

 

[The Civs 6]

Except that free speech entails being able to say that you think someone shouldn't be allowed to do something. I get that you're probably spending a lot of time to spell out things, but it's also fruitful spending time to read. Since, you know. That's what I wrote.

You're just not getting it. You need to work on your reading comprehension especially if you claim to be in university.

 

[Angst]

You're just not getting it. You need to work on your reading comprehension especially if you claim to be in university.

That's probably useful. Especially in this situation, since I actually study free speech and public debate. It's good you're willing to spend your expensive, billable time to teach me.

Or more seriously, maybe you should just accept the consequences of a system with downsides and not berate liberal democracy with being crypto-communist. Or like, it's up to you. It's a free country.

 

[The Civs 6]

That's probably useful. Especially in this situation, since I actually study free speech and public debate. It's good you're willing to spend your expensive, billable time to teach me.

Happy to help.

 

[GenMarshall]

With all due respect, that's exactly what you just did. Maybe you should do a stealth edit to prove us wrong.

You’re wrong on all parts with this. It’s not what did. At this point you’re just resorting to ad homs because you conflate Trumpism with Alt-Right. I just don’t agree with the redorich because is the same dog and pony show many on the right throw out that I’ve seen with my own eyes. In the future, don’t take having your views called out as a personal attack on you as a person.

Next time, try attacking the argument and not the person KTHX.

Do you want to bet? Do I have to dig up the literal treasure trove on this OT forum of posters presumptuously declaring, right out of whole cloth, with no evidence, and often ignoring evidence to the contrary, other posters being "Trumpists," or "Alt-Right," to their virtual faces, seemingly as a brazen tactic of slander, disingenuous discreditation, and even rhetorical invective and personal insult. You might be amazed at how many such posts I could dig up without too much effort. And, I believe that you were the author of a number of said posts.

How’s the air up there, must be hard to see us peons down here flying with BIG BRAIN centrism? This isn’t the place to do this. Stop having your views being called out as a personal attack on you as a person.

 

[Angst]

Happy to help.

Then please explain to me, how is practicing free speech opposed to free speech?

 

[The Civs 6]

You’re wrong on all parts with this. It’s not what did. At this point you’re just resorting to ad homs because you conflate Trumpism with Alt-Right. I just don’t agree with the redorich because is the same dog and pony show many on the right throw out that I’ve seen with my own eyes. In the future, don’t take having your views called out as a personal attack on you as a person.

Next time, try attacking the argument and not the person KTHX.


How’s the air up there, must be hard to see us peons down here flying with BIG BRAIN centrism? This isn’t the place to do this. Stop having your views being called out as a personal attack on you as a person.

Just dig yourself deeper into your hole.

 

[Lexicus]

No but as someone who values, you know, other people's free will, a lot of people do a lot of things I don't think are good. But I try my best not to judge them or control them.

as for people shouting down entertainers or whatever, it's not really a question of when people will stop doing that. idiots will always be idiots

the brutal reality that cancel culture is commanded by crypto communists who just want to boss others around and tell them how to live their lives.

Story doesn't check out

 

[GenMarshall]

Just dig yourself deeper into your hole.

I’m already out of the hole thank you very much .

 

[The Civs 6]

Then please explain to me, how is practicing free speech opposed to free speech?

Let me try another time. If I say "I don't think NFL players should be allowed to kneel", I would agree that someone saying that is opposed to free speech. But that's not what I think. I'm fine with NFL players kneeling. Go ahead and kneel. But when they kneel they have a message. And I disagree with that message. So I dislike seeing them kneel. But I don't think they should be banned from kneeling.

Likewise, I don't like cancel culture. I don't agree with the message of cancel culture. But I don't think cancel culture should be banned or stopped.

I'm honestly trying hard to explain this but really I can't put my point any more clearly than that.

 

[The Civs 6]

Story doesn't check out

Nice hit and run, but actually that is all consistent. I dislike the message, dislike the nefarious people behind it, but I have no problem with them spouting it off.

 

[Patine]

You’re wrong on all parts with this. It’s not what did. At this point you’re just resorting to ad homs because you conflate Trumpism with Alt-Right. I just don’t agree with the redorich because is the same dog and pony show many on the right throw out that I’ve seen with my own eyes. In the future, don’t take having your views called out as a personal attack on you as a person.

Next time, try attacking the argument and not the person KTHX.


How’s the air up there, must be hard to see us peons down here flying with BIG BRAIN centrism? This isn’t the place to do this. Stop having your views being called out as a personal attack on you as a person.

Since you have obviously ceased with any meaningful or sincere posts on this topic, I'm going to engage in something productive this evening.

 

[The Civs 6]

Since you have obviously ceased with any meaningful or sincere posts on this topic, I'm going to engage in something productive this evening.

He's flustered because he knows he's wrong. Trying to distinguish Trumpism from the alt-right is the last act of a desperate man.