How do you end 'cancel culture'?

[Berzerker]

My Irish ancestors fled the potato famine and came here just in time to fight in the civil war. I think they deserved gratitude, not a bill for reparations.

 

[The Civs 6]

My Irish ancestors fled the potato famine and came here just in time to fight in the civil war. I think they deserved gratitude, not a bill for reparations.

if that guy doesn't immediately turn around and admit he's wrong, there's no point talking with him because he has no idea about American Civil War history.

 

[Lexicus]

I think everyone living in the United States, even black people, should on some level be thankful and appreciative for the society we live in today. To me, kneeling communicates that you are ungrateful for everything this country has done for you. I dislike that message.

Hundreds of thousands of white northerners died in the 1860's in order to free the slaves. Would you die for any cause today? Maybe y'all are trying to make the Civil War disappear because it makes you uncomfortable.

So uh, black people should be grateful for simply being given what was theirs to begin with? You consider the freeing of the slaves to have been some kind of special favor to black people, worthy of eternal gratitude? I believe that many of the men who actually fought in the Civil War would be disgusted by that; they would tell that they did it because it was the right thing to do, not because they wanted gratitude or deference from black people forever after.
Indeed, allow me to quote Abraham Lincoln on the matter, speaking to recently freed slaves in Richmond, VA:

Don't kneel to me, that is not right. You must kneel to God only, and thank him for the liberty you will hereafter enjoy. I am but God's humble instrument...

The North did not fight for abolition.

Half-truth. The North was pretty much fighting for abolition by the end of the war. There are other problems with his argument though which I've gone into above.

I mean either you are trolling me or you just didn't understand the point I was trying to make for a long time, and when you finally got it you agreed with me.

nah, this didn't happen

My Irish ancestors fled the potato famine and came here just in time to fight in the civil war. I think they deserved gratitude, not a bill for reparations.

A bill for reparations would honor their memory by continuing the work for which they fought. This post is basically spitting on their graves, nice one

 

[The Civs 6]

So uh, black people should be grateful for simply being given what was theirs to begin with? You consider the freeing of the slaves to have been some kind of special favor to black people, worthy of eternal gratitude? I believe that many of the men who actually fought in the Civil War would be disgusted by that; they would tell that they did it because it was the right thing to do, not because they wanted gratitude or deference from black people forever after.
Indeed, allow me to quote Abraham Lincoln on the matter, speaking to recently freed slaves in Richmond, VA:




Half-truth. The North was pretty much fighting for abolition by the end of the war. There are other problems with his argument though which I've gone into above.



nah, this didn't happen

No I don't think they should treat it as a special favor any more than I or anyone else should feel like this country has especially favored me. But the country realized slavery was a horrible thing and it solved it, costing hundreds of thousands of lives. Would you die for any cause you purport to believe in?

 

[Lexicus]

the lyric is "let us die to make men free" but yea keep telling other people they don't know anything about the Civil War

 

[Lexicus]

No I don't think they should treat it as a special favor any more than I or anyone else should feel like this country has especially favored me. But the country realized slavery was a horrible thing and it solved it, costing hundreds of thousands of lives. Would you die for any cause you purport to believe in?

Oh really, because earlier it seemed like you were saying that black people should still be grateful for the people who fought in the civil war, so grateful they should refrain from continuing the work of the people who fought in the civil war by establishing a truly egalitarian society where people actually have self-government?

Like honestly how dare you invoke the memory of the Civil War to say that black people today should not protest at being subject to arbitrary state violence with no legal recourse?

 

[The Civs 6]

Oh really, because earlier it seemed like you were saying that black people should still be grateful for the people who fought in the civil war, so grateful they should refrain from continuing the work of the people who fought in the civil war by establishing a truly egalitarian society where people actually have self-government?

Like honestly how dare you invoke the memory of the Civil War to say that black people today should not protest at being subject to arbitrary state violence with no legal recourse?

Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't. I'm saying I don't agree with their message. How hard is that to understand?

And it is literally one example of many things about American life that we should all be thankful for. It's not the only thing. I think overall most people living in America have it pretty good. I've been to second world countries and I know how much worse it can be, even if all the worst allegations about systematic discrimination were true.

Sheesh you are really jumping to a lot of conclusions and playing up the pathos. Try arguing without emotion and only with logic, it will help you be more persuasive.

 

[Angst]

I mean either you are trolling me or you just didn't understand the point I was trying to make for a long time, and when you finally got it you agreed with me.

It's hard to understand when you write different things than you apparently mean. But anyways, I'm going to bed. Might see you later!

 

[Lexicus]

Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't. I'm saying I don't agree with their message. How hard is that to understand?

Saying they shouldn't be kneeling is synonymous with disagreeing with their message. There is a difference between saying they shouldn't kneel and saying they shouldn't be allowed to kneel. How hard is that to understand?

 

[Berzerker]

A bill for reparations would honor their memory by continuing the work for which they fought. This post is basically spitting on their graves, nice one

Someone dies saving your life and instead of showing gratitude you demand their money?

 

[The Civs 6]

Saying they shouldn't be kneeling is synonymous with disagreeing with their message. There is a difference between saying they shouldn't kneel and saying they shouldn't be allowed to kneel. How hard is that to understand?

There's a world of difference between those two things, and if you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. It's such a fundamental aspect of intellectual discourse.

 

[The Civs 6]

Someone dies saving your life and instead of showing gratitude you demand their money?

Lol because the Irish being white, of course had a fine time of it in America. No systematic racism against Irish people ever. What a privileged bunch of people. /s in case anyone's sarcasm detector is broken.

 

[Berzerker]

we weren't even welcome in Rock Ridge

 

[Lexicus]

There's a world of difference between those two things, and if you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. It's such a fundamental aspect of intellectual discourse.

I think everyone living in the United States, even black people, should on some level be thankful and appreciative for the society we live in today. To me, kneeling communicates that you are ungrateful for everything this country has done for you. I dislike that message.

I mean here is the post where you literally say people should be grateful, kneeling is ungrateful, ergo you are saying people should not kneel
This is not difficult stuff.

 

[Patine]

/r/selfawarewolves

What is this stupid and lame-sounding reference supposed to mean?

 

[cardgame]

What is this stupid and lame-sounding reference supposed to mean?

With apologies for the low resolution:

 

[Patine]

With apologies for the low resolution:

And the relevance of this little show-and-tell is? Because I find it hard to have the optimism to believe that your using this picture to make a full admission and mea culpa to your own serial displays of shameless hypocrisy...

Moderator Action: Patine. End the paranoia please. --LM

 

[cardgame]

And the relevance of this little show-and-tell is? Because I find it hard to have the optimism to believe that your using this picture to make a full admission and mea culpa to your own serial displays of shameless hypocrisy...

Keep deluding yourselves that your saying anything worthwhile, valid, or remotely sensible or true, or that those you spar with on these forums are "proven wrong," "have their flaws shown to them and their lies exposed," and are "rhetorically soundly defeated."

two for one special?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Not sure why black people should appreciate or be thankful for living in a society that at best dehumanizes them, subjects them to discrimination and goes out of its way to justify the above when not actively killing them

But then again I'm not a white centrist

 

[Patine]

Not sure why black people should appreciate or be thankful for living in a society that at best dehumanizes them, subjects them to discrimination and goes out of its way to justify the above when not actively killing them

But then again I'm not a white centrist

In case you hadn't noticed (it seems your oblivious to the fact, for some reason - perhaps deliberate tactical blindness), the United States has come a LONG way in Civil Rights and racial opportunities, relations, and treatment since the 1930's, which is about the era you're describing there. You always completely ignore all progress in Civil Rights advancement in the U.S. whatsoever, and pretend and advocate as though none has made at all, obviously to push some disingenuous ulterior social narrative. I admit, there's still a long ways to go, but blatantly denying what has been accomplished, which is very significant and meaningful and big moves forward socially, and trying to rhetorically shove that denial down everyone's throat, helps no one, ultimately, not even you.