How do you end 'cancel culture'?

[NinjaCow64]

In case you hadn't noticed (it seems your oblivious to the fact, for some reason - perhaps deliberate tactical blindness), the United States has come a LONG way in Civil Rights and racial opportunities, relations, and treatment since the 1930's, which is about the era you're describing there. You always completely ignore all progress in Civil Rights advancement in the U.S. whatsoever, and pretend and advocate as though none has made at all, obviously to push some disingenuous ulterior social narrative. I admit, there's still a long ways to go, but blatantly denying what has been accomplished, which is very significant and meaningful and big moves forward socially, and trying to rhetorically shove that denial down everyone's throat, helps no one, ultimately, not even you.

This is like celebrating an abusive husband who has decided to only beat his wife every second day. While the advancement of civil rights is a good thing and should be celebrated, it should have never needed to happen in the first place. And it is nowhere near enough.

 

[Patine]

This is like celebrating an abusive husband who has decided to only beat his wife every second day. While the advancement of civil rights is a good thing and should be celebrated, it should have never needed to happen in the first place. And it is nowhere near enough.

No, that analog is entirely inappropriate and only meant for disingenuous and incendiary screeds, like many of the obscene analogs more radical Republicans are often excoriated for. And, I didn't say once it was to be considered an endpoint or fully satisfactory (more words being put in my mouth) - just that utterly denying the progress that HAS been made to create a false narrative for ulterior rhetorical purposes is not at all productive - in fact, it's a disingenuous manipulation. And your defense of this manipulation with a disgustingly out-of-line analog, and the three "like-drones," who liked your defense of this manipulation and the accompanying shameless analog show a completely out-of-touch view by you all, as well as a reaffirmation to your dedication to self-sabotaging and ruinous tactics that kill any gains or achievements in the long-term for dubious and fleeting short-term victories - a mentality that is at the heart of what is behind, "cancel culture."

 

[NinjaCow64]

just that utterly denying the progress that HAS been made to create a false narrative for ulterior rhetorical purposes is not at all productive

But nobody is denying that progress has been made, I haven't said that, Cloud_Strife didn't say that in the post that you quoted, you haven't said it. Maybe someone has said that somewhere, but I don't know where (I have not been keeping up with the thread since it had like five new pages since I last went to sleep). If someone has said something like that I would disagree with them.

out-of-touch

Maybe I'm out-of-touch. IDK. I know many of my ideas aren't particularly popular. I've come to peace with that.

(more words being put in my mouth)

I'm sorry if I misrepresented you. I don't have any real beef with you and I hope that there is no ill will towards me either.

 

[Patine]

I haven't said that, Cloud_Strife didn't say that in the post that you quoted, you haven't said it.

Cloud_Strife clearly portrayed the United States' atmosphere on Civil Rights TODAY as though it were, in her descriptive, as it was in the 1930's, not as it is today. If that is NOT denying progress has been made, it's some kind of rhetorical ploy or hyperbolic misrepresentation for some purpose.

 

[Seon]

That seems like misrepresentation of her words to me.

 

[Patine]

That seems like misrepresentation of her words to me.

Her statement was VERY much a description of the U.S. in the 1930's in terms of Civil Rights and race relations, not today. How would you interpret it?

 

[Seon]

She did not mention 1930s anywhere in her statement. You did that. You might disagree with her by claiming that United States does not dehumanize the black population anymore, but that doesn't mean you can assert that Cloud_Strife does not believe there have been no progress since 1930s.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

It is entirely possible for things to have improved for a group and for the material lot of said group within said improved society to still be bad. These are not contradictory things @Patine and nothing you can conjure up in your mind will ever make it so.

 

[Patine]

She did not mention 1930s anywhere in her statement. You did that. You might disagree with her by claiming that United States does not dehumanize the black population anymore, but that doesn't mean you can assert that Cloud_Strife does not believe there have been no progress since 1930s.

How can one say the United States AS A WHOLE SOLID NATION, and not just certain institutions and political and social factions within, who are receding in power and influence in the long-term view, dehumanizes it's Black population anymore. That's a massive scale and ABSOLUTIST charge and an intimation of guilt and complacency completely unjustifiable and unbackable - and a level of insulting audacity to make of gob-smacking proportions. Also, the living standards, opportunities in life and career, educational and self-awareness, and vocal presence in socio-political and cultural globally of African-Americans, on average, compared to Anglo-Caribbeans and Sub-Saharan Africans in majority Black countries where Blacks actually run the Government is completely and ridiculously lopsided in any sort of comparison in favour of African-Americans. Nowadays, injustices that were done casually to African-American prior to the 1960's and little said or done about them are now not only FAR rarer, but when they do happen, the media's all over it and there's a firestorm demanding metaphorical blood over it. Cloud_Strife always seems to be living in some alternate timeline and dimension where things are notably worse, socio-politically, though.

 

[Patine]

It is entirely possible for things to have improved for a group and for the material lot of said group within said improved society to still be bad. These are not contradictory things @Patine and nothing you can conjure up in your mind will ever make it so.

Every society is bad in many areas, and all have a lot of work to do. I'm not saying things are hunky-dory for African-Americans yet, and they haven't achieved full equal opportunity, on average, as Whites or Asian in the U.S., that much is true. But your depictions of affairs are just incendiary hyperbole that is not really true, but a gross exaggeration. Relative thinking is far superior to absolute thinking.

 

[Seon]

You are being hysterical and exaggerating/extrapolating meanings from her words. You are also comparing the living standard of an imperial state to bunch of nations which, less than a century ago, were colonies directly exploited by bunch of said imperial states.

Have you ever considered the possibility that you are the one making giants out of windmills in these situations?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Every society is bad in many areas, and all have a lot of work to do. I'm not saying things are hunky-dory for African-Americans yet, and they haven't achieved full equal opportunity, on average, as Whites or Asian in the U.S., that much is true. But your depictions of affairs are just incendiary hyperbole that is not really true, but a gross exaggeration. Relative thinking is far superior to absolute thinking.

People are literally dying and suffering as a result of this Patine.

 

[Patine]

People are literally dying and suffering as a result of this Patine.

And your exaggerations, hyperbole, absolutist demographic thinking, collective guilt indictments, and ruinous ideas for how things a lot should be bettered are not saving lives or alleviating suffering - and never will. But I obviously cannot makes you see this.

 

[GenMarshall]

And your exaggerations, hyperbole, absolutist demographic thinking, collective guilt indictments, and ruinous ideas for how things a lot should be bettered are not saving lives or alleviating suffering - and never will. But I obviously cannot makes you see this.

How hard is it to understand where Cloud is coming from? Or are you being obtrusive and choosing to ignore Cloud’s own testimonials and concerns?

Ironic that you call Cloud making exaggerations and hyperboils when you’ve done that yourself with her words and others.

 

[Crezth]

In case you hadn't noticed (it seems your oblivious to the fact, for some reason - perhaps deliberate tactical blindness), the United States has come a LONG way in Civil Rights and racial opportunities, relations, and treatment since the 1930's, which is about the era you're describing there. You always completely ignore all progress in Civil Rights advancement in the U.S. whatsoever, and pretend and advocate as though none has made at all, obviously to push some disingenuous ulterior social narrative. I admit, there's still a long ways to go, but blatantly denying what has been accomplished, which is very significant and meaningful and big moves forward socially, and trying to rhetorically shove that denial down everyone's throat, helps no one, ultimately, not even you.

It also doesn’t help anyone to pretend those rights were happily given by an enlightened rule, and not demanded by Black protesters who were killed over it. Kind of like what happens today with people protesting police brutality. Something to think about.

 

[Patine]

It also doesn’t help anyone to pretend those rights were happily given by an enlightened rule, and not demanded by Black protesters who were killed over it. Kind of like what happens today with people protesting police brutality. Something to think about.

And where did I say these rights were granted by benevolent and enlightened rulers? Where? I hope you have an answer, or a quick apology and retraction of that vicious lie...

 

[Crezth]

Vicious lie? You mean the wild extrapolation you’re doing? Where did I say it was you pretending that? If you’ve got a positive line to say about people protesting for rights, say it, don’t throw a churlish tantrum about how mean people in the thread are. Everyone knows it’s gotten better. But apparently it’s not good enough that people don’t get their eyes shot out by pig cops on the streets.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

meanwhile Police detain and handcuff a black mother and her four children after mistaking their SUV for a stolen motorcycle from another state:

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...amily-after-mistaking-their-vehicle-as-stolen

Ah yes, clearly an "improved" system, clearly a system that has systemically changed for the better and clearly a system worthy of keeping.

this is the kind of stuff that black comedians joke about pointedly when they bring it up to mainly white audiences, but it's happening in real life

 

[Patine]

meanwhile Police detain and handcuff a black mother and her four children after mistaking their SUV for a stolen motorcycle from another state:

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/ne...amily-after-mistaking-their-vehicle-as-stolen

Ah yes, clearly an "improved" system, clearly a system that has systemically changed for the better and clearly a system worthy of keeping.

this is the kind of stuff that black comedians joke about pointedly when they bring it up to mainly white audiences, but it's happening in real life

You, of course, know that in the "old days," far worse would have potentially happened to that mother and her children - and the press would have been silent on the issue, and thus you'd never it know it even happened unless you personally knew the family or lived in their community. That's part of my point you're so determined to ignore and take irrational offense to.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

What an improvement that is, right?