How do you end 'cancel culture'?

[GenMarshall]

Nice to know that only five pages in, we've gone off topic away from cancel culture.

 

[Seon]

Your fault of course is that objective reality is actually unknowable/unknown and that our modern consensus reality is the best-fit we have for it.

generally speaking I find consensus-driven scientific and legislative inquiries much more truthful or useful than some ‘objective truth’ that someone insists is the truth. This is why we have peer review and trial by peers.

 

[BCheek]

Do you want to ban alcohol and tobacco?

No because people don't get strung out on tobacco and banning alcohol was already tried. What is your point? Or are you just going to ask endless questions?

 

[Estebonrober]

Or perhaps I have first hand knowledge on the subject, enough to know that the article you linked is garbage "science."

Black on black crime.

First hand anecdotes is not how science works, but you just keep on digging that hole.

More racism! Yay! ./s

 

[Berzerker]

And how many of those violent crimes are drug related? Lots.

"Drug related" means what exactly? Banning drugs creates a violent black market and gangs fighting over market share. Look at what alcohol prohibition did to the homicide rate in the 20s, doubled it just like Reagan's drug war in the 80s. That wasn't because of drunk or high people, that was from wars over turf. Look at Mexico if you think drug wars reduce violent crime.

 

[Estebonrober]

Your fault of course is that objective reality is actually unknowable/unknown and that our modern consensus reality is the best-fit we have for it.

generally speaking I find consensus-driven scientific and legislative inquiries much more truthful or useful than some ‘objective truth’ that someone insists is the truth. This is why we have peer review and trial by peers.

scientific method is not their strong suite . . .

 

[TheMeInTeam]

And how many of those violent crimes are drug related? Lots.

Which causes which, however?

If we're to blame the drugs, we should expect to see massive crime rates in countries where those drugs are legal, but we do not.

If we're to blame race, we should expect similar crime rates of the same race in other countries (setting aside how asinine it is to lump people as just "white" or "black" from historical/practical perspectives). Regardless of how you define it, however, race does not effectively predict crime rate outside of the US in the post-welfare era either.

While multiple things likely contribute, we should at least be using factors that make predictions that square with observations.

generally speaking I find consensus-driven scientific and legislative inquiries much more truthful or useful than some ‘objective truth’ that someone insists is the truth. This is why we have peer review and trial by peers.

Ah yes, the glorious peer review process that gets us this kind of result: https://phys.org/news/2018-10-real-fake-hoodwinks-journals.html

And then they actually had the lack of self-awareness to go after the people who wrote these articles as if they performed "human experimentation", further shredding their own credibility. This is what's supposed to be take priority of coherent interpretation of data?

 

[Estebonrober]

It's sad how this gets ignored today as some kind of racial implication, when you consider it against demographic crime data from, say, the 1960s or even earlier (or in other countries). How well does this historic data fit peoples' models? Most don't seem to care to even consider it.

The reality of the crime rate is there, but it's like we're scared to find out why. That or the status quo is comfortable for people catering to that vote because they can play it as a card to keep that vote so long as casual relations are kept out of the discussion.

Funny how statistics proven to be gathered in a racist fashion is taken at face value but ones showing drug usage actually goes down when you focus on treatment rather than punishment is fake.

• More than one in four people arrested for drug law violations in 2015 was black, although drug use rates do not differ substantially by race and ethnicity and drug users generally purchase drugs from people of the same race or ethnicity.15) For example, the ACLU found that blacks were 3.7 times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than whites in 2010, even though their rate of marijuana usage was comparable.16)

• The highest officials in New York City had “turned a blind eye to the evidence that officers are conducting stops in a racially discriminatory manner,” Judge Shira A. Scheindlin concluded regarding the city’s stop-and-frisk tactic, declaring it unconstitutional in 2013.17) The policy, which broadly targeted male residents of neighborhoods populated by low-income people of color to uncover drugs and weapons, was shown to be ineffective, and this assessment was further validated when New York City continued its crime decline after scaling back Stop and Frisk. Yet other localities continue to deploy the practice.18)

• New York City, like many other cities, remains reluctant to scale back Broken Windows Policing, a public safety approach that relies on clamping down on petty offenses and neighborhood disorder. Between 2001 and 2013, 51% of the city’s population over age 16 was black or Hispanic. Yet during that period, 82% of those arrested for misdemeanors were black or Hispanic, as were 81% of those who received summonses for violations of the administrative code (including such behaviors as public consumption of alcohol, disorderly conduct, and bicycling on the sidewalk.).19) Yet research shows that order-maintenance strategies have had only a modest impact on serious crime rates and have caused great damage to communities of color.20) These strategies also expose people of color to a greater risk of being killed during a police encounter

https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/

 

[BCheek]

"Drug related" means what exactly?

High and/or drunk during a domestic dispute, assault, robbery, etc. that they may not have done otherwise if they were sober.

Banning drugs creates a violent black market and gangs fighting over market share. Look at what alcohol prohibition did to the homicide rate in the 20s, doubled it just like Reagan's drug war in the 80s. That wasn't because of drunk or high people, that was from wars over turf. Look at Mexico if you think drug wars reduce violent crime.

You're taking a multi-faceted issue and reducing it to two variables. You're cherry picking and making assumptions about the causes and effects.

 

[BCheek]

scientific method is not their strong suite . . .

Show me the citations from the article then? And where they've considered things like the crime rates, homelessness, property values, social services, average income, etc. in these communities where they have these centers and injection sites, or was all of that exuded from the article and omitted from their "study"? Where's their protocol, what was their methodology?

Yeah, thought so. A google search genius.

 

[Robert Can't]

Given the amount of racism on display here I guess it makes sense why you're all so worried about getting cancelled.

 

[Berzerker]

No because people don't get strung out on tobacco and banning alcohol was already tried. What is your point? Or are you just going to ask endless questions?

Millions have died from tobacco within my lifetime and thats just the USA, the number of people strung out pales in comparison. So how did alcohol prohibition work out? Stronger booze, wood alcohol poisoning, more violent crime and the birth of the Mafia.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Given the amount of racism on display here I guess it makes sense why you're all so worried about getting cancelled.

???

Where's the racism? It's actually true that the vast majority of violent crime against any particular group of people comes from members of own race. It's not like crime rate stats are a secret. The motivations aren't racist then obviously, and the causes aren't either (if they were, we should expect to see different outcomes).

 

[stinkubus]

You can't end "cancel culture". If someone who is expected to entertain an audience pisses them off instead they will always run the risk of losing their job.

 

[Arwon]

???

Where's the racism? It's actually true that the vast majority of violent crime against any particular group of people comes from members of own race. It's not like crime rate stats are a secret. The motivations aren't racist then obviously, and the causes aren't either (if they were, we should expect to see different outcomes).

The bloke in this thread (and others) regurgitating white supremacist canards would be a good place to start.

 

[Seon]

We do literally have a guy arguing that there are only four races on earth

 

[BCheek]

Millions have died from tobacco within my lifetime and thats just the USA, the number of people strung out pales in comparison.

Strung out?? Who the hell smokes a cigarette then beats the holy hell out of their girlfriend?

So how did alcohol prohibition work out? Stronger booze, wood alcohol poisoning, more violent crime and the birth of the Mafia.

I already agreed it went poorly, but I don't want to ban alcohol. How is this even relevant?

Given the amount of racism on display here I guess it makes sense why you're all so worried about getting cancelled.

Bronys and discord boys should be cancelled.

 

[Robert Can't]

We're coming for your jobs and you won't be missed

 

[Estebonrober]

Show me the citations from the article then? And where they've considered things like the crime rates, homelessness, property values, social services, average income, etc. in these communities where they have these centers and injection sites, or was all of that exuded from the article and omitted from their "study"? Where's their protocol, what was their methodology?

Yeah, thought so. A google search genius.

lol such clowning!

References
1 For example, in 2011, 81% of all cases were suspended by the commissions: European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (2013) ‘National report 2012: Portugal’, p. 102.
2 Domosławski, A. (2011) ‘Drug Policy in Portugal: The Benefits of Decriminalizing Drug Use’, Open Society Foundations Global Drug Policy Program, p. 30.
3 Stevens, A. (2012) ‘Portuguese drug policy shows that decriminalisation can work, but only alongside improvements in health and social policies’, LSE European Politics and Policy Blog, 10/12/12.
4 Rosmarin, A. and Eastwood, N. (2013) ‘A Quiet Revolution: Drug Decriminalisation Policies in Practice Across the Globe’, Release.
5 European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (2011a) ‘Drug policy profiles — Portugal’, p. 20.
6 Balsa, C., Vital, C. and Urbano, C. (2013) ‘III Inquérito nacional ao consumo de substâncias psicoativas na população portuguesa 2012: Relatório Preliminar’, CESNOVA – Centro de Estudos de Sociologia da Universidade Nova de Lisboa, p. 59.
7 Hughes, C. E. and Stevens, A. (2012) ‘A resounding success or a disastrous failure: Re-examining the interpretation of evidence on the Portuguese decriminalisation of illicit drugs’, Drug and Alcohol Review, vol. 31, pp. 101-113.
8 Balsa, C., et al. (2013) op. cit., p. 52.
9 Concurrent trends in neighbouring countries are discussed in Hughes, C. E. and Stevens, A. (2010) ‘What can we learn from the Portuguese decriminalization of illicit drugs?’, British Journal of Criminology, vol. 50, pp. 999-1022.
10 United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (2010) ‘Methodology—World drug report 2010’, p. 12.
11 European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (2010) ‘2010 Annual report on the state of the drugs problem in Europe’, p. 10.
12 See references 7 and 8.
13 Balsa, C., et al. (2013) op. cit., p. 52.
14 European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (2013) op. cit., pp. 65-67.
15 Three data sets used:
ECATD data taken from Instituto da Droga e da Toxicodependência (2009) ‘Relatório Anual 2008 – A Situação do País em Matéria de Drogas e Toxicodependências’, p. 21 and Instituto da Droga e da Toxicodependência (2013) ‘Relatório Anual 2012 – A Situação do País em Matéria de Drogas e Toxicodependências’, p. 32.
ESPAD data taken from Instituto da Droga e da Toxicodependência (2007) ‘Relatório Anual 2006 – A Situação do País em Matéria de Drogas e Toxicodependências’, p. 14 and Instituto da Droga e da Toxicodependência (2013) op. cit., p. 31.
INME data taken from Feijão, F. (2011) ‘Inquérito Nacional em Meio Escolar, 2011 – Secundário. Consumo de drogas e outras substâncias psicoactivas: Uma abordagemintegrada. Síntese de resultados’, SICAD, p. 3 and Feijão, F. (2011) ‘Inquérito Nacional em Meio Escolar, 2011 – 3.º Ciclo. Consumo de drogas e outrassubstâncias psicoactivas: Uma abordagemintegrada. Síntese de resultados’, SICAD, p. 3.
16 Instituto da Droga e da Toxicodependência (2013) op. cit., p. 21.
17 European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (2011b) ‘Looking for a relationship between penalties and cannabis use’.
18 Reuter, P. and Stevens, A. (2007) ‘An Analysis of UK Drug Policy’, UK Drug Policy Commission.
19 Degenhardt, L. et al. (2008) ‘Toward a Global View of Alcohol, Tobacco, Cannabis, and Cocaine Use: Findings from the WHO World Mental Health Surveys’, PLoS Medicine, vol. 5, no. 7, pp. 1053-1067.
20 See, for example, Melanie Phillips’ claim at: Full Fact (2012) ‘What effect has decriminalising drugs had in Portugal?’, 31/01/12.
21 European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (2011a) op. cit., p. 20.
22 European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (2014) ‘Data and statistics’.
23 Ibid.
24 European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (2012) ‘Country overview: Portugal’.
25 Hughes, C. E. and Stevens, A. (2010) op. cit., p. 1015.
26 Pinto Coelho, M. (2010) ‘Decriminalization of drugs in Portugal – The real facts!’, World Federation Against Drugs, 02/02/10.
27 Hughes, C. E. and Stevens, A. (2012) op. cit., pp. 106-108.
28 Data for year 2001 taken from Hughes, C. E. and Stevens, A. (2012) op. cit., p. 107; data for year 2012 taken from Instituto da Droga e da Toxicodependência (2013), op. cit., p. 64.
29 Pinto Coelho, M. (2010) op. cit.
30 Phillips, M. (2011) ‘Drug legalisation? We need it like a hole in the head’, MailOnline, 17/11/11.
31 Tavares, C. and Thomas, G. (2008) ‘Statistics in focus: Crime and criminal justice’, Eurostat, p. 3.
32 United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (2009) ‘World Drug Report 2009’, p. 168.
33 Clarke, S. (2013) ‘Trends in crime and criminal justice, 2010’, Eurostat, p. 8.
34 Pinto Coelho, M. (2010) op. cit.
35 Data taken from Hughes, C. E. and Stevens, A. (2010), p. 1009, and European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (2013) op. cit., p. 106.
36 Data for 1999 taken from Instituto da Droga e da Toxicodependência (2004) ‘Relatório Anual 2003 – A Situação do País em Matéria de Drogas e Toxicodependências’, p. 141. Data for year 2012 taken from Instituto da Droga e da Toxicodependência (2013) op. cit., p. 105.
37 Hughes, C. E. and Stevens, A. (2010) op. cit., p. 1010.
38 Von Sydow, K. et al. (2002) ‘What predicts incident use of cannabis and progression to abuse and dependence? A 4-year prospective examination of risk factors in a community sample of adolescents and young adults’, Drug and Alcohol Dependence, vol. 68, no. 1, pp. 49-64.
39 Hannon, L. and Cuddy, M.M. (2006) ‘Neighborhood Ecology and Drug Dependence Mortality: An Analysis of New York City Census Tracts’, The American Journal of Drug and Alcohol, vo. 32, no. 3, pp. 453-463.
40 Najman, J.M et al., (2008) ‘Increasing socio-economic inequalities in drug-induced deaths in Australia: 1981-2002’, Drug and Alcohol Review, vol. 27, no. 6, pp. 1-6.
41 Stevens, A. (2012) op. cit.
42 Khalip, A. (2012) ‘Once a model, crisis imperils Portugal’s drug program’, Reuters, 13/08/12.
43 Pinto, M. S. (2012) ‘The Economic Crisis is a Danger for Harm Reduction in Portugal’, Drogriporter, 06/02/12.

 

[BCheek]

We're coming for your jobs and you won't be missed

Doubt. Most of you cant even figure out which bathroom you need to be in.