How do you end 'cancel culture'?

[Patine]

That was a joke.



For anyone wondering, this is false. The Republican Party platform in 1854 did not call for the abolition of slavery, only affirmed the power of Congress under the Constitution to ban slavery from the territories. Lincoln upon being elected in 1860 said - truthfully - that he had no intention of interfering with slavery in the states where it already existed.

Not true, either. Lincoln was a "Moderate Republican," and part of the faction of the party with the views you just described. He was nominated largely after the electoral failure of Fremont, a "Radical Republican," and a hard abolitionist, who was the party's first Presidential candidate, in 1856 (the election Buchanan won). Many members of Lincoln's Cabinet, and the Republican Senators and Governors of the 1860's, including Seward, Hale, Chase, Sumner, etc., were more or less "Radical Republicans," themselves.

 

[Lexicus]

Not true, either. Lincoln was a "Moderate Republican," and part of the faction of the party with the views you just described. He was nominated largely after the electoral failure of Fremont, a "Radical Republican," and a hard abolitionist, who was the party's first Presidential candidate, in 1856 (the election Buchanan won). Many members of Lincoln's Cabinet, and the Republican Senators and Governors of the 1860's, including Seward, Hale, Chase, Sumner, etc., were more or less "Radical Republicans," themselves.

Here is the 1856 Republican platform.
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/republican-party-platform-1856

You can read it and point out where it calls for the abolition of slavery.

 

[GenMarshall]

That was a joke.

His big centrist brain can’t handle jokes.

The Executive Branch and Congressional Majority (at least Congressional Majority after the Secessions of 1860-1861) of the North were held by a political party created at a Convention in 1854 in Wisconsin that was a merger of effectively several previous parties, partial parties, bolters from standing parties, who had, as one as one of their biggest platform planks at that convention, and they ran for election openly on, was abolition of slavery (it's gobsmacking to see the United States' scheme today and think back at the completely unbelievable fact that that party was the Republican Party - things have really changed and flipped around bizarrely in the 150 years since then).

It wasn’t until the middle of the war when the Union said “ok, now we can fight for the abolishment of slavery”. As I quote Frederic Douglas “the feathers have already been ruffled!!”. Though we’re really are getting off topic and this should be debated in the history forum section.

 

[Patine]

His big centrist brain can’t handle jokes.

I've already re-addressed this "centrist," myth - a myth I'd already firmly dispelled last week (I'm still waiting on @aelf to tell me which of three self-compromised states they were in when they re-posted that myth as an accusation not far upthread), but it appears your grasp on recent corrections (and not for the first time) on such myths and faerie tales is slipping as well.

 

[GenMarshall]

I've already re-addressed this "centrist," myth - a myth I'd already firmly dispelled last week

The joke ->












You ->

but it appears your grasp on recent corrections (and not for the first time) on such myths and faerie tales is slipping as well.

I hate to break it to you, but you’ll still be known as the big brained centrist to most of us with your Obi-Wan philosophy of “ThE SiTh OnLy DeAlS wItH AbSoLoUtEs” and attack us for it.

 

[Patine]

The joke ->












You ->


I hate to break it to you, but you’ll still be known as the big brained centrist to most of us with your Obi-Wan philosophy of “ThE SiTh OnLy DeAlS wItH AbSoLoUtEs” and attack us for it.

Your humour, and those of your compatriots, frankly sucks. Modern American humour as a whole is now so lame, off-putting, and unfunny, it's pitiful. I remember back in the '80's and '90's, aside from a penchant for more tolerance for "off-colour," jokes, which I will admit to, the actual substance and style in general of American humour was actually clever, well-crafted, well-played, capable of subtlety and intimation (if not having it as it's backbone like British humour), and capitalized on turns-of-phrase, puns, and irony - instead of the low-grade, juvenile, stupid drivel it is now.

 

[GenMarshall]

Your humour, and those of your compatriots, frankly sucks. Modern American humour as a whole is now so lame, off-putting, and unfunny, it's pitiful.

You should take that stick out of your butt, I can tell you it will do wonders.

 

[Patine]

You should take that stick out of your butt, I can tell you it will do wonders.

You have become an irritating griefer with nothing valid or worthwhile to say anymore. Take more mandatory and forced binary socio-political view with only specifically American labels allowed for anyone in the world, your stereotyped and distorted viewpoints of the world, your accusing others of horribly flawed and intolerant ideal, while you and your compatriots espouse nothing but, you idiotic humour, and your WoW Elf avatars, and STOP POSTING OR RESPONDING TO ME! I will reciprocate the lack of posting and responding if this is done.

 

[Seon]

You should take your own advice and stop thinking in absolute terms, frankly.

You called out cloud for being an absolutist divisionary person for saying African Americans are dehumanized. Then brought up advancements since 1930s (something cloud strife doesn’t refuse to acknowledge) to justify your claims on cloud’s character.

And then you went off and admitted that you do think that African Americans are still exploited, sent to camps to work for free, etc, which means you actually do agree with cloud that African Americans are still dehumanized to some degree in America.

So the only reason why you think cloud strife is a divisive figure and you, not, is because you Think she’s an absolutist and a divisive figure, and are reacting with hysterical extrapolation of every word to match your agenda about her.

This is actual McCarthyism.

 

[Patine]

You should take your own advice and stop thinking in absolute terms, frankly.

You called out cloud for being an absolutist divisionary person for saying African Americans are dehumanized. Then brought up advancements since 1930s (something cloud strife doesn’t refuse to acknowledge) to justify your claims on cloud’s character.

And then you went off and admitted that you do think that African Americans are still exploited, sent to camps to work for free, etc, which means you actually do agree with cloud that African Americans are still dehumanized to some degree in America.

So the only reason why you think cloud strife is a divisive figure and you, not, is because you Think she’s an absolutist and a divisive figure, and are reacting with hysterical extrapolation of every word to match your agenda about her.

This is actual McCarthyism.

African-Americans do indeed still get less thrift than they deserve, after all these years, in the United States. But institutionally, universally, and nationwide dehumanized? Do you or her even understand what that means? I will tell you. Jews, Romani, Homosexuals, Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Quakers in Nazi Germany, Homosexuals in Chechnya, the Tunjur and Fur Peoples of Darfur, Non-Moslems in Iran and Saudi Arabia, Karens, Kachins, Rakhine, and Shan Peoples in Myanmar, political dissidents in the PRC, and other examples such as that. Do African-Americans in the Modern United States come close to THAT level of injustice and suffering? This is why I called Cloud_Strife's post an exaggeration and out-of-proportion and DIDN'T actually say it had no grain of truth. The thing is, though, and another part of my point, that such overplayed hyperbole is not helpful, and only harmful, in the long run, to such activism.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

You should take your own advice and stop thinking in absolute terms, frankly.

You called out cloud for being an absolutist divisionary person for saying African Americans are dehumanized. Then brought up advancements since 1930s (something cloud strife doesn’t refuse to acknowledge) to justify your claims on cloud’s character.

And then you went off and admitted that you do think that African Americans are still exploited, sent to camps to work for free, etc, which means you actually do agree with cloud that African Americans are still dehumanized to some degree in America.

So the only reason why you think cloud strife is a divisive figure and you, not, is because you Think she’s an absolutist and a divisive figure, and are reacting with hysterical extrapolation of every word to match your agenda about her.

This is actual McCarthyism.

Please read this @Patine and allow for the wisdom contained within to enter your mind and percolate

 

[GenMarshall]

You have become an irritating griefer with nothing valid or worthwhile to say anymore.

Excuse me, but I don't go around blowing up other people's creations in Minecraft. I offer valid points and opinions, I will state that it is you who dont have anything valid to offer the table, only moving the goal posts, being paranoid about people talking about you when no one is talking about you, and clutching your pearls when you're called out on an issue. I recalled that you refused to offer any evidence to offer up any historical evidence of history being distorted and modified when I plainly stated "Don't use evidence from post Revolutionary Russia and the Chinese Cultural Revolution because they've been used to death by the right and the Alt-Right". But then you gone into a conniption fit of you being called an alt-right and started clutching your pearls and refused to offer up any other evidence of historical revisionism. Pearls before swine my butt, that's just a cop out to me that you don't even have any evidence to show for it because you're afraid that your precious historical sources would be eaten up by the wolves.

Take more mandatory and forced binary socio-political view with only specifically American labels allowed for anyone in the world, your stereotyped and distorted viewpoints of the world, your accusing others of horribly flawed and intolerant ideal,

I'm not the one that want's to strip away rights for minorities here. I'm not the one here that want's to strip away rights for the LGBTQ+ community. I'm not the one peddling abhorrent ideals that segments humans into subhuman categories and dehumanizes them.

You my friend, are actually playing one of the chapters of the Alt-Right Playbook: Never Play Defense. And before you go into another conniption fit on how you're being called an alt-right, I and others are not, I repeat not calling you an alt-right nazi. It's evident, even in this thread, that you change subjects in the middle of the debate when someone makes a counter point as Seon has demonstrated in his post.

while you and your compatriots espouse nothing but, you idiotic humour, and your WoW Elf avatars, and STOP POSTING OR RESPONDING TO ME! I will reciprocate the lack of posting and responding if this is done.

Now the shoe is on the other foot when you harassed Cloud, How does it feel? This is something that has grated me for a while now with your constant harassment of Cloud and other left leaning posters. You should have a hard look at yourself before casting stones. The fact that you had to resort to trashing my avatar (Which absolutely has nothing to do with the subject at hand) is a real new low for you.

STOP POSTING OR RESPONDING TO ME!

Complains about cancel culture, yet demands others to not freely speak.

African-Americans do indeed still get less thrift than they deserve, after all these years, in the United States. But institutionally, universally, and nationwide dehumanized? Do you or her even understand what that means? I will tell you. Jews, Romani, Homosexuals, Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Quakers in Nazi Germany, Homosexuals in Chechnya, the Tunjur and Fur Peoples of Darfur, Non-Moslems in Iran and Saudi Arabia, Karens, Kachins, Rakhine, and Shan Peoples in Myanmar, political dissidents in the PRC, and other examples such as that. Do African-Americans in the Modern United States come close to THAT level of injustice and suffering?

Have you ever talked with minorities in the streets, outside of your office? Have you seen it with your own eyes outside of your ivory tower?

This is why I called Cloud_Strife's post an exaggeration and out-of-proportion and DIDN'T actually say it had no grain of truth. The thing is, though, and another part of my point, that such overplayed hyperbole is not helpful, and only harmful, in the long run, to such activism.

Yet you yourself do make things overly exaggerated and out of proportions and routinely attack her and others that side with her.

 

[Patine]

Please read this @Patine and allow for the wisdom contained within to enter your mind and percolate

It's not wisdom. It's waspish scolding from a self-righteous position. If you read my post right after, I explain a lot of my I originally took you to task with the WORDING and PRESENTATION of your original post in this debate, upthread, if not the core sentiment.

 

[cardgame]

African-Americans do indeed still get less thrift than they deserve, after all these years, in the United States. But institutionally, universally, and nationwide dehumanized? Do you or her even understand what that means? I will tell you. Jews, Romani, Homosexuals, Communists, Socialists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Quakers in Nazi Germany, Homosexuals in Chechnya, the Tunjur and Fur Peoples of Darfur, Non-Moslems in Iran and Saudi Arabia, Karens, Kachins, Rakhine, and Shan Peoples in Myanmar, political dissidents in the PRC, and other examples such as that. Do African-Americans in the Modern United States come close to THAT level of injustice and suffering? This is why I called Cloud_Strife's post an exaggeration and out-of-proportion and DIDN'T actually say it had no grain of truth. The thing is, though, and another part of my point, that such overplayed hyperbole is not helpful, and only harmful, in the long run, to such activism.

[targeted peoples] in Nazi Germany were killed by the state, and the state was okay with this killing.

Black people in America are being killed by the state, and the state is okay with this killing in many circumstances.

Are they the same? No, and nobody should be saying they are the same. Are they comparable? I don't know, read my italicized and tell me if they are or are not comparable. Yes, George Floyd's killer is being brought to justice, perhaps - time will tell - but Philando Castile's killer is free and will remain free. So will Breonna Taylor's, most likely. Elijah McClain's killer is free and will remain free.

There are many more names to list, but I think this conveys my point.

It's not wisdom. It's waspish scolding from a self-righteous position.

selfawarewolf.jpg

 

[Cloud_Strife]

It's not wisdom. It's waspish scolding from a self-righteous position. If you read my post right after, I explain a lot of my I originally took you to task with the WORDING and PRESENTATION of your original post in this debate, upthread, if not the core sentiment.

Let the wisdom wash over you, @Patine and please stop being so needlessly aggressive to me, you're making me feel quite uncomfortable and I'd hate to think you're doing so intentionally

 

[Patine]

I'm not the one that want's to strip away rights for minorities here. I'm not the one here that want's to strip away rights for the LGBTQ+ community. I'm not the one

You my friend, are actually playing one of the chapters of the Alt-Right Playbook: Never Play Defense. And before you go into another conniption fit on how you're being called an alt-right, I and others are not, I repeat not calling you an alt-right nazi. It's evident, even in this thread, that you change subjects in the middle of the debate when someone makes a counter point as Seon has demonstrated in his post.

I have NEVER ONCE advocated for rights to taken away from anyone. You will not find me saying that ANYWHERE. But it seems to be a toxic and highly warped and disingenuous fad here now to make up and conjure vile statements that I have never said, and then declare, by false fiat, that they are beliefs I have espoused. This tactic - the most LOATHSOME and VILE on these forums, kill all credibility and respect that any poster using such (like you have now) has remaining at all with me - and with anyone who has any self-respect and brain in their skull. This tactic, which you have just sunk to, is the bottom of the barrel in my tolerance here. Insulting my intelligence and education would be more forgivable!

Now the shoe is on the other foot when you harassed Cloud, How does it feel? This is something that has grated me for a while now with your constant harassment of Cloud and other left leaning posters. You should have a hard look at yourself before casting stones. The fact that you had to resort to trashing my avatar (Which absolutely has nothing to do with the subject at hand) is a real new low for you.


Complains about cancel culture, yet demands others to not freely speak.


Have you ever talked with minorities in the streets, outside of your office? Have you seen it with your own eyes outside of your ivory tower?


Yet you yourself do make things overly exaggerated and out of proportions and routinely attack her and others that side with her.

My criticism of Cloud_Strife's post, as I said just above, was about proportion and presentation, and the self-sabotage and damage to a message that such melodramatic hyperbole do to one's message (which I do admit, I have been guilty of - and hence how I know, FIRST HAND, the shooting of oneself and one's message in the foot by such tactics.

 

[GenMarshall]

It's not wisdom. It's waspish scolding from a self-righteous position. If you read my post right after, I explain a lot of my I originally took you to task with the WORDING and PRESENTATION of your original post in this debate, upthread, if not the core sentiment.

Instead of plugging you ears going "LALALALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU!!!!" and pearl clutching. Actually read what myself, Seon, and others are saying. What you don't get are there are people who are absolutely pissed with you because you want everyone to conform to your views and attack them because you view them as absolutism. You routinely change subjects when a counter point is presented (again, as Seon brought up) and ending up moving goal posts.

Let the wisdom wash over you, @Patine and please stop being so needlessly aggressive to me, you're making me feel quite uncomfortable

My guess is that he's never going to let the wisdom wash over him, he's just going to be an easy target for the alt-right to snatch up.

 

[Seon]

You are still thinking of things in absolute terms, rather than relative. You are claiming since dehumanization is something that happened to other people’s in history in these very specific happenstances, what is happening to the African American people are not dehumanization.

In other words, the only reason why you insist upon cloud strife being an absolutist thinker is because you have defined, very absolutely, what dehumanization means, despite the fact that cloud strife may have a different and more relative criteria of dehumanization. And then going nuclear with hyperbolic accusations against anyone who raises an eyebrow.

Which is what you accuse other people of doing, funnily enough.

 

[GenMarshall]

I have NEVER ONCE advocated for rights to taken away from anyone. You will not find me saying that ANYWHERE. But it seems to be a toxic and highly warped and disingenuous fad here now to make up and conjure vile statements that I have never said, and then declare, by false fiat, that they are beliefs I have espoused.

You make it sound that I'm accusing you of something of which I did not even stated. If you bothered to even take a closer look at what I am quoting you "your accusing others of horribly flawed and intolerant ideal", I took that as being a decent human being and not dehumanizing people as being flawed and intolerant in your eyes. I wouldn't be surprised if you told me to my face that holding views of being a decent human being and treating other people, including minorities, with the respect they deserve is abhorrent, flawed, intolerant, and absolutist thinking.

This tactic - the most LOATHSOME and VILE on these forums, kill all credibility and respect that any poster using such (like you have now) has remaining at all with me - and with anyone who has any self-respect and brain in their skull. This tactic, which you have just sunk to, is the bottom of the barrel in my tolerance here. Insulting my intelligence and education would be more forgivable!

I'm not the one here that's changing subjects and topics each time my argument has been proven debunked

My criticism of Cloud_Strife's post, as I said just above, was about proportion and presentation, and the self-sabotage and damage to a message that such melodramatic hyperbole do to one's message.

Ever stop to think that there may be a grain of truth in her statements? While I don't see that sort of stuff Cloud posts up around me (I live in the Northeast of the US), it doesn't mean I should rest my laurels since it can happen anywhere and not just in the deep south or the middle east.

 

[Patine]

the alt-right to snatch up.

The Alt-Right is a pitiful, whining, self-serving, self-righteous, delusional, warped, and distorted band of nihilists whose ideals and policies would destroy their own civilization for no appreciable gain. Traits they have in common with the more extreme and vocal groups of the 2010's American Social Progressives. And, neither are operational in those forms here in Canada (pet your parochial American mind didn't guess that other nations' political schemes aren't just clones of the American one - joke's on you and your crappy American educational and media systems). But I don't have time for destructive, ruinous malcontents who have absolute no view or care of the long-term, but only care about spiteful and sabotaging short-term victories with no appreciable in the long-term. I am, however, not "a pro-status quo moderate or centrist," either. I have a very Reformist point of view - a fair amount of it quite radical. I just view a lot of things that are failures, injustices, and just don't work, but are ignored as issues in the modern zeitgeist, as NEEDING major reform, and, in areas in major discourse, that there needs to be a more wholistic and viable manner of addressing affairs, than the chaotic and piecemeal way things are being done that have no sustainability, and are bringing injustices and damage of their own. But, since doubling down on the most loathsome tactic the post after I had just brought it up, is obviously your shameless modus operandi, than everything you post will have to be at a DEFAULT of lies, slander, slagging, and such, and have to be proven otherwise.