How do you feel about situations where wife earns way more than husband?

[Cheezy the Wiz]

What is AA? Afro-Americans?

Affirmative Action. It's an American government program which mandates that a certain percentage of accepted candidates in different institutions (particularly colleges, but also government agencies) must be of African descent. When created, it was intended to counteract the tendency of these institutions to exclude Black candidates or heavily favor White ones, resulting in great difficulty for upwardly-mobile-aspiring Blacks to fulfill their goals. Allegations against AA include "reverse racism" and giving unqualified Blacks access to slots that qualified Whites are thusly denied

 

[luiz]

Affirmative Action. It's an American government program which mandates that a certain percentage of accepted candidates in different institutions (particularly colleges, but also government agencies) must be of African descent. When created, it was intended to counteract the tendency of these institutions to exclude Black candidates or heavily favor White ones, resulting in great difficulty for upwardly-mobile-aspiring Blacks to fulfill their goals. Allegations against AA include "reverse racism" and giving unqualified Blacks access to slots that qualified Whites are thusly denied

And also the fact that it is justifed on the base of crappy and meaningless statistical analysis along the lines of "white college graduates make in average $X, black college graduates make in average less than X, therefore discrimination is at play and we need to institute a policy of racial preference".

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Ah so a brown-people-quota for public institutions. Yes such quotas are usually very fertile for debate.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

And also the fact that it is justifed on the base of crappy and meaningless statistical analysis along the lines of "white college graduates make in average $X, black college graduates make in average less than X, therefore discrimination is at play and we need to institute a policy of racial preference".

Yes and that. Again, AA is not a bad policy in spirit, but the way it's implemented, such as the instance as you describe, that creates problems.

It's worth mentioning that this type of thinking is rather popular with our government. For example, I applied for a job as a technical writer with the Department of Labor a few months ago; when I called the contact for the position, he told me without telling me that I wouldn't get the job because a veteran had applied for it also. This is because military veterans who meet the qualifications are given 100% precedence for civil service jobs.

 

[civ_king]

Howdie neighbor!

My wife makes more than I do, but she works 1.5 ~ 1.75 jobs. We are both in the StageHands Union, but different locals. On an hourly basis she makes more than I do by about 15 to 20%. It's not an issue, except in perhaps a reverso way from what you might expect. She's annoyed that I don't earn more. But my job affords us the flexibility of scheduling to handle many of the tasks that she can't do due to her inflexible schedule...

Equal pay for equal work is not controversial. In the US women are still payed significantly less than people who have testicles for doing the exact same job; that's not right.

incorrect once you adjust for important factors

Too lazy to look for it, but I think I recall reading somewhere that marriages in which the woman makes substantially more than the man end up in divorce at a greater rate than average.

This is probably because the man has been taught that he must be the provider and assertive thus he feels powerless as he has no means of control

I would not be bothered, provided that the reason for her higher pay is not inherent danger of the job or unusually long working hours that don't give us much time together.



It has been said that women are only paid seventy or eighty something cents on the dollar as men for the same jobs, but such studied completely ignore important factors like how long they have been doing those jobs.

Most of the difference in pay is there because employers often base pay on experience rather than trying more sophisticated means of measuring skill. Women tend to take maternity leave just before the point that men start getting their most significant raises, and often wait long enough to return to work that their experience becomes outdated while their male peers keep going up in pay grade.

Men are also more likely to be the sort of risk takers that demand raises or promotions, but there are plenty of males who are more passive in such regards than most women. (This has also been given as a reason why Asians don't often make it past middle management.)




One thing I found somewhat amusing in the last presidential election is that while Obama's platform included making sure that women were paid as much as men, he only paid the women working for his campaign about 60% as much. McCain opposed legislation on the matter, but paid the women working for his campaign almost 20% more than he paid the men. It isn't really comparable though, as McCain had a lot more female senior advisers and a lot fewer females working at the grass roots.

Exactly

Hummm, depend. Fact is marriage and love can end, even if you are today in a deep love. So one, man or woman, should not abondon completly his or her career just to follow his or her spouse. If following you wife would completly makes your career not attractive while making hers sky rocket, than that is a little bit unfair unless you are truly sharing all the income and there are no other better and more balanced alternative.

Love can hit rough patches, but these can be worked through with effort

30 seconds on Google:
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/the-gender-pay-gap-by-industry/

You realize that that page admits that it's crap right?

And also the fact that it is justifed on the base of crappy and meaningless statistical analysis along the lines of "white college graduates make in average $X, black college graduates make in average less than X, therefore discrimination is at play and we need to institute a policy of racial preference".

I dislike affirmative action in college because in California it screws over Asians

 

[galdre]

the pay gap between men and women does exist, but it depends on the kind of job (here's and article on doctors)

As for my wife making more than me - she does (currently at least), but we've always treated our combined money as both of ours so it doesn't matter to either of us who makes more

 

[kochman]

Ah so a brown-people-quota for public institutions. Yes such quotas are usually very fertile for debate.

Not just public institutions, private business, etc...
Also, I believe in many cases east asians actually get hurt by the program due to their high level of achievement, in general, in the USA... at least for colleges this is the case.

It's stupid and defines discrimination.

 

[peter grimes]

incorrect once you adjust for important factors

..such as?

You realize that that page admits that it's crap right?

No, it doesn't say that at all. It does, however, say that there is variation between as well as within industries since it's not distinguishing between different occupations within the same industry.

That doesn't at all mean that it's "total crap."

We need to ask why, for example, there tend to be more female secretaries than male; why more male CEOs than female, etc.

If you think I'm wrong because I'm ill-informed please point me to some evidence. I'll be happy to change my opinion if it's shown to be wrong.

EDIT:
Here's a better source:
http://www.bls.gov/cps/wlftable18-2010.htm

I find it worth noting that there are only 4 occupations where women average more pay than men, and those are still within 10% of men's earnings. This is out of close to 100 occupations.

 

[Dida]

I found a pretty interesting article in the NYer this very same topic, here is the link:
http://nymag.com/print/?/nymetro/news/features/n_9495/index1.html

It appears that the issue they highlighted doesn't really apply to me, as the men in the article seem to be truly losers (artist-wanna-be's, failed actors and other such men who couldn't make it in their respective fields). The women were also less than likable, they appeared to be insufferable prestige-whores who need alpha husband to further augment their existing prestige. Not surprisingly, they all love the high-roller NYC lifestyle which my wife and I find disgusting.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

If my wife made more than me, we'd be halfway to millionaires, so I approve of this. If you have a marriage where you share, you don't view your spouse's achievements with envy.

But on the topic of wages, the data suggest that women make less than men due to time diverted to child rearing. There is also a prejudice in the US against men to take off time for child rearing, because while women do get maternity leave, paternity leave is a weekend. Such prejudice doesn't exist in other countries, such as in Scandinavia, where both are entitled to a long parental leave, and in those nations, the difference in pay between genders is far less.

I would be surprised if employers were deliberately underpaying women in the US for the sake job. To do so is a federal crime and is taken very seriously by the EEOC.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I think that even in the US men typically can take as much as much paternity leave as women take maternity leave, but almost no one actually does that. The letter of the law and of employment contracts would support it, but it is not quite so socially acceptable.

 

[Traitorfish]

My girlfriend is going to be a civil engineer. I am going to be a history graduate. I'm sure I'll find out how I feel about this in due time.

 

[JerichoHill]

Nano,

You have a very healthy view on what marriage entails. Sad that some folks here don't share it. You are correct also, in that the pay gap appears to be, in some significant proportion, caused by cultural norms and values with regards to women.

(For example, Women tend to work jobs that are closer to their residence than men do, and there is economic evidence that workers who commute farther tend to earn more money to compensate for the long commute). Whether there is intentional discrimination (illegal) would depend on finding whether, for my example above, if women have options to work further away from home and decide not to, or whether said options are not available.

 

[Artifis]

There should be no moral value on which spouse earns more. 'Nuff said.

Nano,

You have a very healthy view on what marriage entails. Sad that some folks here don't share it. You are correct also, in that the pay gap appears to be, in some significant proportion, caused by cultural norms and values with regards to women.

(For example, Women tend to work jobs that are closer to their residence than men do, and there is economic evidence that workers who commute farther tend to earn more money to compensate for the long commute). Whether there is intentional discrimination (illegal) would depend on finding whether, for my example above, if women have options to work further away from home and decide not to, or whether said options are not available.

Interestingly enough, there is evidence to show that in professions which women have entered in large numbers, the wage across the board has been driven down. I'm honestly still not sure what to make of this piece of information.

 

[luiz]

To answer the OP, I would not mind at all having a wife that makes more than me. In fact, it would be great. I would mind it, though, if she was the one paying for our lifestyle, that is, if I were only able to live as I do because of her. That would make me feel like a parasite and a loser.

An interesting fact: my girlfriend currently makes about 20% less than I do. And we're both the same age and graduated on the same thing on the same college. But she graduated one year later, because she did one of those college exchange programs in Paris during one year. She makes about the same as I did when I had her work experience, perhaps a bit less adjusting for inflation. But it's easy to see how this could be spinned as "evidence" of a gender wage gap, depending on which facts I tell and which facts I don't.

 

[Silurian]

My girlfriend is going to be a civil engineer. I am going to be a history graduate. I'm sure I'll find out how I feel about this in due time.

Why do you assume that she will earn more than you.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

I think that even in the US men typically can take as much as much paternity leave as women take maternity leave, but almost no one actually does that. The letter of the law and of employment contracts would support it, but it is not quite so socially acceptable.

I don't think so. Not only is paternity leave far shorter but, as far as I know, neither paternity nor maternity leave is paid. Some employers do allow their employees to collect pay for a limited time while on maternity leave, but, as far as I know, this is not legally mandatory. It's just a perk offered by some jobs to attract labor. So what this means is that not only is there discrimination against men for child leave, but there is also discrimination against single mothers. Single mothers, having no support at all, become even more imperiled by child rearing since they end up becoming destitute just to care for a child, and then require public assistance just to survive. (The statistics on single mothers being on public assistance also bears this out.)

If you compare the treatment of child care leave to Sweden, for example, it is allowable for both parents to take leave for up to 2 years, and continue to collect a portion of their salary. They can even space this out as much as they want, going in and out of employment as their needs arise.

Whether there is intentional discrimination (illegal) would depend on finding whether, for my example above, if women have options to work further away from home and decide not to, or whether said options are not available.

I would argue that if there was widespread illegal discrimination for so long, it would not be a mystery. Everyone would be aware of it and since it is illegal, would be taking legal action against it. In the US, as you know, people litigate actions far more trivial than wage discrimination.

 

[Traitorfish]

Why do you assume that she will earn more than you.

Engineer. History graduate. How could she not?

 

[Quackers]

You could fit the niche probably bigoted David Starkey role. Lots of Tudor documentaries nobody watches and lots of fame.

 

[Mise]

Engineer. History graduate. How could she not?

Pretty easily. You could get onto a graduate scheme at a big company, earn more than her in starting salary, and probably get promoted faster too. Or she could say "sod engineering, I'm going to work in my home-town putting on band nights for barely above minimum wage", like one of my friends did.

That's probably not something either of you want to do, but it's wrong to say that History graduates can't earn as much as an engineer. On average they don't, but the average is merely the centre of a distribution of salaries, along which you and she could lie at any point.