How many riots does it take...

[Timsup2nothin]

So you are basically saying it is okay to attack innocents just to further your own agenda? I don't care how noble your agenda may be, that is an absolutely disgusting way to achieve it. What you are talking about is essentially mob rule, and that's no better than a police state.

EDIT: And you are wrong to say directly attacking the police doesn't work. Just look at the Euromaidan riots in the Ukraine and the numerous uprisings in the Arab Spring.

There are no innocents. You either support the police or you don't.

Note that your examples did not occur in the US. Direct assault on the police will in fact lead to military intervention, and if you think anyone in the US is actually equipped for a sustained conflict with the national guard you are mistaken.

Attack the police directly, the police put you down, the problem is solved and everything goes back to normal. Once again, the riot, by it's very existence, demonstrates that the police have failed in their function. And all the people who rely on the police see that failure and become concerned.

 

[madviking]

Link to video.

warning: language


Link to video.

 

[Commodore]

There are no innocents. You either support the police or you don't.

Spoken like a true extremist.

Note that your examples did not occur in the US. Direct assault on the police will in fact lead to military intervention, and if you think anyone in the US is actually equipped for a sustained conflict with the national guard you are mistaken.

The military was called in in Egypt, Libya, and Syria. In two of those the rebels were victorious and in the third the rebels are winning.

Also, I have always been a huge believer in the concept of you only have as many rights as you can successfully defend. I also firmly believe that might does, in fact, make right. So if this movement is incapable of winning in a direct conflict with the authorities, then the cause has absolutely no legitimacy in my eyes. So come talk to me when you guys can beat the police and military in a direct conflict.

Attack the police directly, the police put you down, the problem is solved and everything goes back to normal. Once again, the riot, by it's very existence, demonstrates that the police have failed in their function. And all the people who rely on the police see that failure and become concerned.

Yeah, but as stated by others, this only drives people right into the polices' arms. People want an ordered and peaceful society. Just look at the comments being made about these riots just about anywhere else on the internet. The overwhelming majority of comments are people encouraging the police to crack skulls. Even the ones that don't want the police to crack skulls still come out vehemently against any kind of violent protest. Why? Because people in general do not like chaos and disorder and they will flock to any entity that promises to restore order.

 

[BvBPL]

There are no innocents. You either support the police or you don't.

Terrorist.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yeah, but as stated by others, this only drives people right into the polices' arms. People want an ordered and peaceful society. Just look at the comments being made about these riots just about anywhere else on the internet. The overwhelming majority of comments are people encouraging the police to crack skulls. Even the ones that don't want the police to crack skulls still come out vehemently against any kind of violent protest. Why? Because people in general do not like chaos and disorder and they will flock to any entity that promises to restore order.

Statements by others don't trump demonstrated effect. The LAPD didn't get cleaned up after the LA riots because suddenly the city government developed a conscience. It got cleaned up because the business community told the mayor "no more [deleted] riots you [deleted] idiot!"

The "I wanna be an innocent bystander" crowd can "come out" with whatever they want on the internet, as vehemently as they want. At the end of the day people want an effective police force, and the riots indicate clearly that they do not have one.

 

[Kozmos]

On one side we have a group of people with nothing at stake whose jimmies are rustled by all the brawling and rumbling and are quite disturbed by the Idea that such might happen in their own neighborhoods.

On the other side we have a group of people who have suffered from the immense disinterest of the government in their plight and have turned to predictable avenues to dealing with it.

Both sides however realize, consciously or unconsciously that the only way something gets done or at least gets a quick response is to endanger and halt economic activity, the domain of the Third Side with considerable interests, but rarely advertised out loud. Nowhere is this more true in America, where the dollar is sacred and almighty.

So we should celebrate. Issues are going to be resolved. One way or another. You will either grind them into the dust like Palestinians or improve their living standards. Hooray.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Curfew enacted, National Guard called in, 159 fires, 15 officers injured, 200 arrests

National Guard troops fanned out through the city, shield-bearing police officers blocked the streets and firefighters doused still-simmering blazes early Tuesday as a growing area of Baltimore shuddered from riots following the funeral of a black man who died in police custody.

The violence that started in West Baltimore on Monday afternoon - within a mile of where Freddie Gray, 25, was arrested and placed into a police van earlier this month - had by midnight spread to East Baltimore and neighborhoods close to downtown and near the baseball stadium. The streets were calm Tuesday morning.

Monday's rioting was one of the most volatile outbreaks of violence prompted by a police-involved death since the days of protests that followed the death of Michael Brown, an unarmed black man who was shot and killed during a confrontation with a white police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, last summer.

At least 15 officers were hurt, including six who were hospitalized, police said. There were 144 vehicle fires, 15 structure fires and nearly 200 arrests, according to numbers provided Tuesday morning by Howard Libit, a spokesman for the mayor's office.
...
U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch, in her first day on the job, said she would send Justice Department officials to the city in coming days. A weeklong, daily curfew was imposed beginning Tuesday from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m., the mayor said, and Baltimore public schools announced they would be closed Tuesday.

Sounds like a warzone.

 

[warpus]

It's a shame, but a society that is so divisive, segregated, and unjust, is every once in a while going to have to pay for the inequality. Unfortunately this means human losses and injuries as well.

I hope that the riots stop, but it's not like the next one isn't just around the corner..

 

[aelf]

Yeah, property is totes more important than lives.

That's Capitalism 101, no?

 

[warpus]

Also, destroying property shows just how selfish and immature these "protestors" really are. They are basically telling the world they feel it is perfectly okay to destroy someone else's livelihood and rob, loot, and set buildings on fire simply because they are angry at the system.

It's something they can do, so they do it. Should tell you something about the sad state of affairs, if they resort to violence and the destruction of property.

If you stick a wounded animal in a cage and poke it with a stick, eventually it's going to react. And if there's only one way it can possibly react, that's very well what might happen...

 

[MobBoss]

Well, when the mayor says 'we will give you space to destroy....' what do you expect to happen?

Another case of a black man with a rap sheet a mile long getting hurt/killed during the process of being arrested/detained. Facts are still being collected as to whether he was injured during the arrest or injured during transport. Cops involved were immediately taken off duty pending an investigation. What more is the Mayor and police Chief (both black apparently) supposed to do? Drag the cops involved out and execute them publically?

 

[Berzerker]

do you have a link for that quote, Mobby?

from what I understand she said giving the protestors space to protest also gave rioters and looters space to destroy

 

[thecrazyscot]

Space to destroy comments:

What no one expected is what Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake admitted in a press conference on Sunday: that she asked the Baltimore Police Department to “give those who wished to destroy space to do that.”

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well, when the mayor says 'we will give you space to destroy....' what do you expect to happen?

Another case of a black man with a rap sheet a mile long getting hurt/killed during the process of being arrested/detained. Facts are still being collected as to whether he was injured during the arrest or injured during transport. Cops involved were immediately taken off duty pending an investigation. What more is the Mayor and police Chief (both black apparently) supposed to do? Drag the cops involved out and execute them publically?

That would have prevented the riot, probably.

So as to avoid such extremes though, the cops nationwide are going to have to change the perception that people dying in the course of being taken into custody is just business as usual. The fact that I have personally heard numerous cops refer to such "taking off duty pending investigation" as "bonus vacay" doesn't help, because I'm sure I'm not unique.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Space to destroy comments:

I'm sure that will be a large comfort to the businesses that were burned down. They'll know exactly where to direct their lawsuits!

 

[MobBoss]

do you have a link for that quote, Mobby?

from what I understand she said giving the protestors space to protest also gave rioters and looters space to destroy

Space to destroy comments:

Yeah, later that night she blamed media for twisting her words and taking them out of context...but how do you take that out of context?

She said what she said, and it was obviously taken as a open license to loot and burn the city.

That would have prevented the riot, probably.

So as to avoid such extremes though, the cops nationwide are going to have to change the perception that people dying in the course of being taken into custody is just business as usual. The fact that I have personally heard numerous cops refer to such "taking off duty pending investigation" as "bonus vacay" doesn't help, because I'm sure I'm not unique.

Except that element will always, ALWAYS be a factor in law enforcement. Why? Because its dangerous as hell to restrain someone willing to fight with you tooth and nail. That simply is not going to change no matter how much people wish it to be so.

Why should also be focused on just as much as the cops is why this career criminal was still on the streets with a rap sheet of 20 or so narcotics and assault arrests?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The last LA riot the LAPD fought the rioters for days. Since the LAPD is what the rioters were mad about in the first place, every time they showed up the rioters got angrier. When the LAPD just withdrew to a safe distance the rioters destroyed some stuff, got tired, and went home. If the demonstration is protesting something else a "police presence" can keep the peace. If the police are what is being complained about it just adds fuel to the fire every time you send them in.

She was clumsy about how she said what she said, but her directive will make for a much shorter riot than there would have been otherwise, and there will be a lot less injury and loss of life.

 

[Berzerker]

Space to destroy comments:

That isn't what she said, the actual quote appears in your link

The mayor’s original quote follows (emphasis and clarification added):

“I’ve made it very clear that I work with the police and instructed them to do everything that they could to make sure that the protesters were able to exercise their right to free speech. It’s a very delicate balancing act, because, while we tried to make sure that they were protected from the cars and the other things that were going on, we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well. And we worked very hard to keep that balance and to put ourselves in the best position to deescalate, and that’s what you saw.”

I removed the little bit of clarification

She said respecting the protestors right to protest also gave rioters and looters the space to destroy and their job was trying to balance the two, allow the former and suppress the latter

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Except that element will always, ALWAYS be a factor in law enforcement. Why? Because its dangerous as hell to restrain someone willing to fight with you tooth and nail. That simply is not going to change no matter how much people wish it to be so.

Maybe the cops need to consider that before they set out to restrain someone. It is really hard to live as a fugitive in America, so where is the guy who "gets away" going to go? Cops are always willing to escalate things from conversation to confrontation to fight to killing, because they know at the end of the day they face no consequences.

 

[civvver]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/03/america-s-2014-murder-capital.html

People get so bent out of shape over the death of a drug dealer who let's face it, no one's gonna miss him. There were over 200 other murders in baltimore last year not perpetrated by police. Where's the outcry over those? I don't have stats in front of me but for all police brutality cases in the news, your chances as a black man of being hurt by another black man are drastically higher. Black on black crime is the highest percentage in these areas. People act like the police are a militant faction like isis or something going around raping and pillaging.