I pledge to not buy Civ 6 until it is released

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I loved Dragon Age games, including Inquisition, almost as much as I love the Civ series. Those are the only two series I always pre-order for (well, those and WoW Xpacs). Inquisition is a great game--I have nearly 300 hours on it even though my computer struggles to run it.

Some people here are hard to please, I guess. That's fine, but I know each of these companies is responsible and trying their best, and if the product on release date has a few problems (and games always have problems), they'll get fixed. I've always gotten my money's worth from each of their games, even Civ 3 and DA:2.

I preorder because I want to be able to play the game as soon as it's released. It's exciting to load up a game at, say, midnight and give it a run, kind of like the old days when I'd take my daughters to midnight Harry Potter book release parties.

So I look upon the impassioned arguments in this thread and think "we all love Civ--we just have different ways to show that love--and that's fine." And I smile :)
 
well i pledge to preorder civ VI early september and use a VPN to download it asap.

Take my money FFFS
 
I have made this pledge about all games. When you pre-order it's basically like giving a toddler a toy when they cry. It's re-enforcing the worst behaviors.
 
the "take my money" mentality is exactly why pre-ordering works and we can't have nice things :lol:

I'm wondering where the hell it began, was it because of steam sales? every time I see that phillip j fry meme I cringe a little
 
Personally I have never spent more hours with any game than CiV... and there is no other game I love playing more together with my boyfriend. We had hoped for quite a while for CiVI and probably won't wait very long after release... maybe if we hear it being a total bug-feast during the first days of release. But other than that I will probably give CiVI the benefit of the doubt that it will most likely entertain me.
 
Pre-ordering Civ6 and then finding out it wasn't finished and having to wait for a few patch cycles before it feels complete doesn't bother me...I think there is more at stake.
If it was a one-off mistake then it wouldn't bother me either, tbh. The thing that bothers me is more the "planned failure". You know, when the devs say, "It's not ready!" and the corporate fat cat says, "Release it anyways, now, I don't care, fix it later if you must. These peasents won't know the difference. Take their money. Mwhahahahah. <lightning cracks in the background>" (Yes, this is an actual quote.)

That bothers me. A company that shows so little respect for me, my time, and my money that they do things like that. They know full well that I will lose hours to in game bugs, that I will invest hours in to a game only to have the AI do something stupid and ruin the game, etc. That really ticks me off. It isn't even the money, it's the time. Just who the hell do they think they are?

What bothers me is enough people holding off purchasing before or at release for the revenue numbers on Civ6 to drop because the bulk of purchases are made later and at discounted rate.
I think this is good. I want this. I know because if the game is good, really good, then everyone who didn't preorder won't wait for a sale. Let's be honest. If the internets are raving about Civ6 then people are going to buy it. But they will buy it after it is released.

On the other hand, if the internets are raving at the fail of Civ6 then people won't buy it.

The corporate fat cats know this (hence preorders - they don't have to worry as much about it). So if no one pre ordered they would have to be damn sure that the internets raved about it.

What bothers me is for the suits at 2K to look at the revenue for Civ6 and say, well that wasn't the best use of our investment dollars, and then either delay or cancel any expansions or even Civ7, or (my greatest fear) use the drop in revenue to start to put pressure on Firaxis to make future projects appeal more to the great masses of casual gamers.
I don't fear this, and I'll tell you why. I'd be curious to know if this waylays your fears (even a little).

Lets say that no one pre ordered Civ6. Closer to release it got some reviews from reviewers that you respected/shared similar interests with, and it was universally reviled. It was launched on time to near universal negativity. I mean, lets say even hear on Civ Fanatics there was a rare moment where everyone on the forums agreed that yes, this was a terri-bad game. As a result the sales were terrible.

The thing is that fat cat corporate overlords want to make money. They often sacrifice aspects of a game to do it, but the goal is to make money. So if they pushed out a Civ title that this unlikely chain of events happened to then they wouldn't make as much money. Its all about cutting it as close to the line as possible: Give us what will part us from our money - nothing more.

And that's fine. I don't begrudge them that - they are fat cats and it's what they do. However, left unchecked the fat cat will continue to cut, and cut, and cut and give less, and less, until the game you are playing may have "Civilizations" on the box - but it is anything but a shell of it's former glory.

That's what I fear the most (thanks for helping me articulate it). Civ6/7/8 become an unrecognizable pablum of the gaming world. The only "power" the franchise holds is in it's title, and as the next generation comes through that will be lost as well. Even people that throw down their money at the mention of the word "Civilization" will eventually come around. But if we wait that long then think of all the hours of Civ-gaming we would have missed!

The Civilization franchise is one of the exceedingly few "brilliant" games out there. I would hate to see that happen.

In that scenario, eventually, because Capitalism, another company would make a game called "Nations". It would be the true spiritual successor to the original iterations of Civilizations. We would all buy it. EA would then aquire them. They would promise it wouldn't change anything, but it would, And then the whole thing would happen again.

The alternative to this bleak, dystopian future is that we say "No, the line must be drawn here" to the fat cats. They, recognizing that their precious money is at stake, then surrender - let the game be uncut - and remain content with their earnings.

Don't kid yourself. These fat cats are smart. They rely on us being passive idiots to make more money, but if we say, "No" they still make money.

At the moment we have a pretty nice balance between, what is still with Civ5, a satisfyingly complex strategy game and, what is also, a game that appeals to, and is fun for, the casual bulk of purchasers.
This is where we have the disagreement the most I think. Civ5, for non-game related reasons I went in to elsewhere, should have been the red flag for all of us. Even if you love what Civ5 has become there were bad business (fat cat) decisions in the mix.

I could get in to how it has become too casual, or the like, but that is all personal opinion and irrelevant to the discussion.

Any campaign that reduces the revenue for Civ6 (as any successful attempt at discouraging pre-purchasing inevitably would) will, in my opinion, have the exact opposite effect that OP intends.
I would challenge your assumption. If you are hell-bent on buying anything and everything that has the "Civilizations" title on it because of the title alone then you are having the exact opposite effect. How long will it take for business people to catch on to this and stick the label on a steaming pile of crap? I have more respect for the Civilizations franchise then to let that happen.

In anycase - I enjoyed your point. All the best.
 
I feel the same way about DAI that some on here seem to feel about 5. Awards, whatever; it was very shiny and completely empty...

Also, I adored Mass Effect 3 unreasonably. So clearly I'm fighting an uphill battle with my video game tastes. :p

That was my experience with DA:I as well. It gave a solid first impression (which is no doubt why it won so many awards), but 20 hours in you start to get bored with the empty world and endless fetch quests--and by 80 hours you're seriously wondering when you'll stumble upon the story that seems to have gone missing. :( There were elements I liked--I'm a huge fan of Alix Wilton Regan, so I adored having her voice the main character--but the game just had too many problems: bad gameplay, decent but not extremely memorable companions (overall probably better than DA2 other than Merrill, but nothing like DA:O), and a disjointed story buried beneath hours and hours of filler.

I have a love-hate relationship with ME3. I overall love the game, and it's not even the ending I don't like (I never wanted a happy ending): my chief issue is that they ruined the Reapers. What happened to "each of us is a nation unto itself"? :( ME3's Reapers were sorely disappointing after Sovereign. In my experience, BW has been going steadily downhill since DA2, with a brief rise in ME3 (but down again with its DLC), and crashing downward with DA:I. *sigh* On the plus side, I no longer want a Jade Empire 2. :cringe: Actually, I do want a Jade Empire 2, but I want Obsidian to make it. Not that I expect that Obsidian would ever work with BioWare assets again after KotOR2.
 
Well, sadly this thread proves hands on that educated gamers and educated consumers are two different things.
I found this article from the biz very illucidating: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-12-19-buggy-games-deserve-much-harsher-treatment
Also, read the comments section. 1) Pre-Ordering diminishes the quality of games on release because it adds to the pressure on releasing at the announced date, regardless of bugs. 2) It diminishes the quality after release because the pressure from angry consumers is high on the devs to fix the bugs- which means need for speed and thus an increase in chances to generate more bugs. 3) Plus, when peak sell is over and done with, dev teams get reduced and devs get reassigned, decreasing the chances of sustained bug hunting. 2) and 3) may be on regardless of ppl pre-ordering or not, but it is easy to see that pre-ordering does nothing to remedy that, but rather the exact opposite.
I'm kinda :( right now, seems I expected something else from the average civfanatic. Count me in @OP.
 
I don't see the link between that article and preordering.
It's about accepting flawed software. It is not related to preordering. The exact problems described there existed far before preordering even existed.
As for (1) I disagree with too. Preordering also means getting more money, so putting more in the game (typically kickstarter stretch goals).
Preordering allows the game to be developped. It allows the developper to rely more on its own funds than on banks to grant loans, and so it amounts to giving money to the developpers rather than the banks. If the company has a decent reputation, I seeno reason you should not preorder. It will make for a better game in my opinion. Now, preordering a game that is almost released and finished like Civ VI, won't make it better because there's no time left. But for quite a few other games (typically preordered through kickstarter) it makes a difference.
 
Let me re-shake the lines of thinking here a little:

The worst enemy against pre-ordering Civ6 right now is Gazebo. :D

It's easy to assume that the huge majority of people willing to pre-order Civ6 are people that enjoy(ed) Civ5. If you enjoyed Civ5 and you are enjoying Vox Populi right now, there is absolutely no incentive to rush into Civ6. If you enjoyed Civ5 and don't know what I am talking about, get out of your under-rock and download Vox Populi, and after trying it, you will have no incentive to rush into Civ6.

Reasoning is simple: Gazebo and Ilteroi have managed to create a superb Civ experience with the Civ5 engine, including and most importantly, a superb AI (combat included). There is no way in my mind that Civ6 developers will have an AI on pair with Vox Populi's at launch, not even if they directly "steal" Gazebo/Ilteroi's AI code improvements. Just no way.

Therefore, I am comfortably happy that my Civ5 experience will last well beyond Civ6 launch thanks to Gazebo et al, and will make me enjoy Civ 6 much more because I will be able to easily wait until Civ6 is at least on pair with Vox Populi, AI included.

Don't believe me? Try it. :D
 
I swear to God, I have seen this thread on every forum for an upcoming game I've ever visited. TBH, I find this "cause" a little silly. The gaming industry has been using preorders for years and there are still good games coming out, somehow.

If you don't want to preorder, don't - but don't make it sound like you're saving the world because of that.
 
Let me rephrase: What would you accept as evidence?
Well, I was mostly clarifying what you were responding to and why the concept of proof as an ideal is irrelevant. I'm not really even sure of the extent of the claimed effects. I don't think games being bad is evidence of anything without being able to link those negatives with the result of pre-ordering.

For example, people are saying that pre-ordering results in a rushed buggy game. I agree games are rushed and buggy, but would people not pre-ordering lead to delays in release which would in turn lead to games being less buggy at launch? Ignoring the fact that some people want the game sooner despite bugs (because they still enjoy playing it), would this be something publishers would do? Would they opt to delay getting money from consumers that would have purchased on the original day 1? I don't think logic alone can demonstrate the answer. You would need knowledge of publishers decisions in the past and their reasoning or, at least, a clear sense of all of publisher's decision-making processes.

I know that that level of detail on publisher decisions is difficult to obtain, but that doesn't mean we should just accept any non-evidence-based argument as the truth just because it's the best we can come up with with our lack of information. It's valid to just accept that we don't know the effects.
 
Let me re-shake the lines of thinking here a little:

The worst enemy against pre-ordering Civ6 right now is Gazebo. :D

It's easy to assume that the huge majority of people willing to pre-order Civ6 are people that enjoy(ed) Civ5. If you enjoyed Civ5 and you are enjoying Vox Populi right now, there is absolutely no incentive to rush into Civ6. If you enjoyed Civ5 and don't know what I am talking about, get out of your under-rock and download Vox Populi, and after trying it, you will have no incentive to rush into Civ6.

Reasoning is simple: Gazebo and Ilteroi have managed to create a superb Civ experience with the Civ5 engine, including and most importantly, a superb AI (combat included). There is no way in my mind that Civ6 developers will have an AI on pair with Vox Populi's at launch, not even if they directly "steal" Gazebo/Ilteroi's AI code improvements. Just no way.

Therefore, I am comfortably happy that my Civ5 experience will last well beyond Civ6 launch thanks to Gazebo et al, and will make me enjoy Civ 6 much more because I will be able to easily wait until Civ6 is at least on pair with Vox Populi, AI included.

Don't believe me? Try it. :D
Mods don't work for all of us. :(

I swear to God, I have seen this thread on every forum for an upcoming game I've ever visited. TBH, I find this "cause" a little silly. The gaming industry has been using preorders for years and there are still good games coming out, somehow.

If you don't want to preorder, don't - but don't make it sound like you're saving the world because of that.
Agreed. Though at least this discussion is much more civil than what you'd find in your average Steam community.
 
The worst enemy against pre-ordering Civ6 right now is Gazebo. :D

Reasoning is simple: Gazebo and Ilteroi have managed to create a superb Civ experience with the Civ5 engine, including and most importantly, a superb AI (combat included).

Agree, but will they implement Civ VI features that I like so much? No? Hopefully, they will get into Civ VI modding. That will be perfect. I enjoy CIV 6 graphics style (and engine) a lot more than I thought, too.
 
Well, sadly this thread proves hands on that educated gamers and educated consumers are two different things.
I found this article from the biz very illucidating: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-12-19-buggy-games-deserve-much-harsher-treatment

That article isn't remotely about preordering, it's about buggy games. In my experience this is the typical argument against preordering: pointing to problems and then arbitrarily blaming them on preorders without any good evidence (or even reason) to back up the claim.

Also, read the comments section. 1) Pre-Ordering diminishes the quality of games on release because it adds to the pressure on releasing at the announced date, regardless of bugs.

Publishers have always released buggy games before they were ready. Preordering has done nothing to change the situation.

2) It diminishes the quality after release because the pressure from angry consumers is high on the devs to fix the bugs- which means need for speed and thus an increase in chances to generate more bugs.

This doesn't make sense. Patches have always risked creating more bugs...that's code for you :) Preordering, again, hasn't changed the situation. Developers have always been under the gun when a buggy game is released...they want to release patches as quickly as possible to avoid bad press from reviewers and gamers alike.

3) Plus, when peak sell is over and done with, dev teams get reduced and devs get reassigned, decreasing the chances of sustained bug hunting.

Again...nothing to do with preordering but rather with a long-standing industry practice.

I'm kinda :( right now, seems I expected something else from the average civfanatic. Count me in @OP.

You're average civfanatic in this thread is perfectly willing to be convinced, but no on has actually brought any evidence to the table.
 
So far I've gotten 945 hours out of CiV.

So I have no qualms about giving Firaxis money on a Civ game. (Note - I do not consider 'BE' a 'Civ' game and did not buy it).
 
I am going to hold out until Steam has it for a major discount via Steam Sale 50% off.

Wrapping up my last game this week and will start playing EU4 which I bought last Christmas with all DLC's but yet to play.

Might wait it out a full year to play CIV 6. Guessing there will be updates and fixes in the first 12 months of the release. Civ 5 went through a lot of updates.

I am will eventually buy it with all expansions etc. My Civ 5 account has me playing 3000 plus hours. Love BNW with all goodies.

Brew God
 
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