Ideas, Requests, and Feedback

[Opera]

Ceridwen really wants to kill the One. She wants his secrets. It is literally driving her mad that she can't have them. Erebus is not her concern. Infinite knowledge and power is.

Speculation. She's so secretive, no one actually knows what she's doing whatever she's doing.

Lawful/Chaotic has nothing to do with 'actively rising the AC'.

I meant that it isn't because you're Chaotic that you actively raise the AC. This was an answer to PPQ's post which states things like 'chaotic good (good but actively raises the AC)' which is wrong, as Chaotic doesn't imply raising the AC intentionally/actively.

Actually there's no hint in the alignments of AC-increasing inclinations. AC increases can be the results of theoretically Chaotic Evil behaviors (razing a city, raping children) but that's only incidental, not actively/intentionally pushing the AC up.

Unless you're Sheaim or a follower of the AV, I don't see why you'd want to raise the AC.

Then I think there's maybe too few ways to raise it, or maybe I'm missing some.

 

[azzedar]

several events give the chance to raise/reduce the ac counter.
some good units (especially mazatl) reduce it, as some units increase it, some of the religious heroes modify the counter as well.
overall - its only the elohim (mazatl only in a special, limited way) and sheaim that can really activly raise and reduce the counter at will.

that may be too few, but i think its intended.

 

[Ilyes]

I find odd the current mechanic about bringing new civilizations in play, such as the Infernals, Mercurians and Frozen.

Infernals

Spoiler :

Not much here. I don't understand why would they get their capital on a random spot, on remote islands or in an enclave of another nation, instead of "stealing" a city from their summoner the way Mercurians do. I believe it would be much more fitting to sacrifice whole city to them. Still, since they are clearly not allies, it begs the question of why would someone summon a host of fiends who will one day turn against you. My experience on this is limited, do nations that summon Hyborem gain some kind of reward?

Mercurians

Spoiler :

The Mercurians are, in most of my games, bloody warmongers who do not hesitate to wage religious wars against pretty much every Evil civ -even doing so would trigger a massive world war due to multiple defensive pacts. I've never met a Basium who would not declare war on somebody in the first three turns after his summoning. Worse of all, he's a little recidive bastard who doesn not settle for long-term peaceful survival. Once finished, he gladly stomp on Neutral ones such as Fellowship and Overlords followers. Worse still, he doesn't mind declaring war on Evil or even Neutral vassals of Good civs, practically setting him against everything that they simply don't like.

Now, I admit all of this actually makes sense lorewise. I can grasp the concept of angels being creatures of such uberhuman purity and righteousness that they simply cannot abide even the mere existence of Neutral Overlords followers. What I don't get is:
1) Why do the Mercurians ally with the Civ that build the Gate, even when such civ would come short of their impossible moral standards?

2) Why would such a civ even build the Gate in the first place?

3) Do the people of Erebus know, lore-wise, how belligerent, intollerant and brutal their angelic future allies will be?

YES: summoning Basium should be tantamount to declaring war on the whole world (or at least on all non-Good nations) -that's what he'll end up doing so anyway, and other nations are not going to sit idly and wait for the Mercurians to get stronger.

NO: well, dang. What a bummer, you summon angels looking forward to benevolent, kind guardians and end up with bloodthirsty crusaders. This is probably the "true" option given how the game now handles how the AI builds the gate; still, it's quite a game breaker since someone always ends up completing it.

Suggestion:

Spoiler :

Make a major revision on how the Mercurians are handled. Give them a second leader, a female-esque angel with defensive traits and AI who is less concerned with destroying evil and more with actually protecting the innocents. Make the Mercurian Gate available only to Good nations; upon completition, prompt a choice between Basium or the second leader.
Under Basium, Mercurians enter the game as an indipendent nation, with a free city built somewhere far from civilization and HEAVILY bent on exploration & colonizing. From then on, they can forge defensive pacts and permanent alliances like everybody else. The Mercurian gate gives no particular bonus, maybe a medium-sized positive diplomacy modifier or some trade routes with the newbuilt Mercurian capital. In this scenario, Mercurians are called to cleanse Erebus from "taint" (whatever that may be) either by religious fanatics or as a last ditch effort by nations opposing the Veil. This choice is available only to Good Order worshipers, or Good & Neutral nations at war with Ashen Veil worshipers.
Under the second leader, Mercurians enter the game as Vassals, taking control of the city in which the gate was built. They have a protective-minded AI, bent on building units which are then garrisoned in their capital & in their master's cities. In this scenario, Mercurians are called on Erebus as benevolent allies, loyal protectors and enlightened mentors. This choice is available only to Empyrean worshipers, or members of the Overcouncil.

Frozen

Spoiler :

Now, this baffles me: why on earth would someone ever think about summoning the Frozen on Erebus? I can't remember if they are Evil or Neutral with some evil tendencies, but their mere presence turns the world to ice. The way I see it, only Illians, Doviello, Jotnars and Cualli would have something to gain from this and yet I constantly find my games plagued by them, summoned by Amurites or Ljosafar or whatever -_-

As a more general question, how does the AI decide whether it's worth or not to summon this problem-spawning trinity?

 

[Valkrionn]

I find odd the current mechanic about bringing new civilizations in play, such as the Infernals, Mercurians and Frozen.

Infernals

Spoiler :

Not much here. I don't understand why would they get their capital on a random spot, on remote islands or in an enclave of another nation, instead of "stealing" a city from their summoner the way Mercurians do. I believe it would be much more fitting to sacrifice whole city to them. Still, since they are clearly not allies, it begs the question of why would someone summon a host of fiends who will one day turn against you. My experience on this is limited, do nations that summon Hyborem gain some kind of reward?

Mercurians

Spoiler :

The Mercurians are, in most of my games, bloody warmongers who do not hesitate to wage religious wars against pretty much every Evil civ -even doing so would trigger a massive world war due to multiple defensive pacts. I've never met a Basium who would not declare war on somebody in the first three turns after his summoning. Worse of all, he's a little recidive bastard who doesn not settle for long-term peaceful survival. Once finished, he gladly stomp on Neutral ones such as Fellowship and Overlords followers. Worse still, he doesn't mind declaring war on Evil or even Neutral vassals of Good civs, practically setting him against everything that they simply don't like.

Now, I admit all of this actually makes sense lorewise. I can grasp the concept of angels being creatures of such uberhuman purity and righteousness that they simply cannot abide even the mere existence of Neutral Overlords followers. What I don't get is:
1) Why do the Mercurians ally with the Civ that build the Gate, even when such civ would come short of their impossible moral standards?

2) Why would such a civ even build the Gate in the first place?

3) Do the people of Erebus know, lore-wise, how belligerent, intollerant and brutal their angelic future allies will be?

YES: summoning Basium should be tantamount to declaring war on the whole world (or at least on all non-Good nations) -that's what he'll end up doing so anyway, and other nations are not going to sit idly and wait for the Mercurians to get stronger.

NO: well, dang. What a bummer, you summon angels looking forward to benevolent, kind guardians and end up with bloodthirsty crusaders. This is probably the "true" option given how the game now handles how the AI builds the gate; still, it's quite a game breaker since someone always ends up completing it.

Suggestion:

Spoiler :

Make a major revision on how the Mercurians are handled. Give them a second leader, a female-esque angel with defensive traits and AI who is less concerned with destroying evil and more with actually protecting the innocents. Make the Mercurian Gate available only to Good nations; upon completition, prompt a choice between Basium or the second leader.
Under Basium, Mercurians enter the game as an indipendent nation, with a free city built somewhere far from civilization and HEAVILY bent on exploration & colonizing. From then on, they can forge defensive pacts and permanent alliances like everybody else. The Mercurian gate gives no particular bonus, maybe a medium-sized positive diplomacy modifier or some trade routes with the newbuilt Mercurian capital. In this scenario, Mercurians are called to cleanse Erebus from "taint" (whatever that may be) either by religious fanatics or as a last ditch effort by nations opposing the Veil. This choice is available only to Good Order worshipers, or Good & Neutral nations at war with Ashen Veil worshipers.
Under the second leader, Mercurians enter the game as Vassals, taking control of the city in which the gate was built. They have a protective-minded AI, bent on building units which are then garrisoned in their capital & in their master's cities. In this scenario, Mercurians are called on Erebus as benevolent allies, loyal protectors and enlightened mentors. This choice is available only to Empyrean worshipers, or members of the Overcouncil.

Frozen

Spoiler :

Now, this baffles me: why on earth would someone ever think about summoning the Frozen on Erebus? I can't remember if they are Evil or Neutral with some evil tendencies, but their mere presence turns the world to ice. The way I see it, only Illians, Doviello, Jotnars and Cualli would have something to gain from this and yet I constantly find my games plagued by them, summoned by Amurites or Ljosafar or whatever -_-

As a more general question, how does the AI decide whether it's worth or not to summon this problem-spawning trinity?

They do not choose to spawn the Infernals, it's done as AV is researched (Well, AV's second tech, but if you have AV you want that tech).

Mercurians are a little bit different, yes, but I rather like them as they are. What bothers me is the way they gain angels (best off killing Good units... Ugh), but that will change. And no, they will not gain angels from killing neutral or evil units; That's just as stupid.

The Frozen will become a White Hand only ritual.

 

[Sjru]

Here's a good idea:

We all know the AI sckks when we talk about battling and keeping hero's alive. (They of course excel at economy, in most cases).
Making a good battle AI is very hard, and it is impossible for an AI match a competent player in the field.

But there's also "challenge" option when you create your custom game, and then I had an idea: Why not add another "challenge" button that gives the AI a free and steady amount of units when at war?. I'm not talking about let the AI get free SoD, but to give them 5 Axeman (or Champions/warriors, depending on the tech) every 10 or 15 turns. Something like the "Art of defense" Bts scenario.
However, of course, those units should be applied when they're facing a war against a Human (otherwise, AI-vs-AI wars could last forever) and should be used against human (Is a challenge option, right?).
The main goal should be to give the AI more advantage in term of battling with more units. That's all.

I hope someone like this.

I'd prefer to make the AI more intelligent (something actively being done) than allow it to cheat more.

But, mister Valk, -no offense - there would be a lot of time until we can see a competitive AI, and I'm calling a challenge option, purely optional, when you create a game, to make harder games, being a challenge.
There is a lack of "challenge" options, and one more would not hurt.

Mostly this could be a short term answer, until we can find ourselves battling an AI that do not kill their heroes 5 turn after being created.

 

[Ilyes]

They do not choose to spawn the Infernals, it's done as AV is researched (Well, AV's second tech, but if you have AV you want that tech).

I'm ok with the Infernals appearing being more like an aftereffect of the Infernal Pact than a end unto itself, but I still think the AI is too casual on summoning them on Erebus -even if it is an unwanted effect. It's like they either believe they will be best friends forever, or they have the power to stop Hyborem and the Hell Terrain should they chose.
If it's a "pact", I believe it could be more... tempting if it granted some kind of defense on the human part. Making Hyborem a vassal would be perfect, and it would also allow him to turn on his summoner should he become more powerful.

Mercurians are a little bit different, yes, but I rather like them as they are. What bothers me is the way they gain angels (best off killing Good units... Ugh), but that will change. And no, they will not gain angels from killing neutral or evil units; That's just as stupid.

Can't their appearance at least be tied on the Armageddon Counter, adding a prerequisite to the Mercurian Gate? What in-game reason is there to complete it (and for the angels to enter the world) without a considerable "evil" to fight?

The Frozen will become a White Hand only ritual.

And that's good.

 

[Valkrionn]

But, mister Valk, -no offense - there would be a lot of time until we can see a competitive AI, and I'm calling a challenge option, purely optional, when you create a game, to make harder games, being a challenge.
There is a lack of "challenge" options, and one more would not hurt.

Mostly this could be a short term answer, until we can find ourselves battling an AI that do not kill their heroes 5 turn after being created.

You want it, you code it. I have no interest in spending what time I have on something I do not want.

I'm ok with the Infernals appearing being more like an aftereffect of the Infernal Pact than a end unto itself, but I still think the AI is too casual on summoning them on Erebus -even if it is an unwanted effect. It's like they either believe they will be best friends forever, or they have the power to stop Hyborem and the Hell Terrain should they chose.
If it's a "pact", I believe it could be more... tempting if it granted some kind of defense on the human part. Making Hyborem a vassal would be perfect, and it would also allow him to turn on his summoner should he become more powerful.



Can't their appearance at least be tied on the Armageddon Counter, adding a prerequisite to the Mercurian Gate? What in-game reason is there to complete it (and for the angels to enter the world) without a considerable "evil" to fight?



And that's good.

The infernals are more something that they didn't expect.

And the Gate used to require the Infernals in game. However, the AI failed at building it with that requirement, so it was removed from FfH.

 

[Nero-Angelo]

Maybe it's just an graphically error, but as it seems the AI never ever builds palisades, walls, etc.
Just a graphic-glitch or working as intended?
Every game a play (hence, no one still works after turn ~100 or so, CTD, CTD, CTD ;__; ) one to three of them die very early, even with advanced start :/

 

[Ilyes]

The infernals are more something that they didn't expect.

And the Gate used to require the Infernals in game. However, the AI failed at building it with that requirement, so it was removed from FfH.

Ah. Now I get it, it more like a "What have we done?!" scenario.
That will actually make me feel less simpathy when slaughtering them to a man.

 

[Viatos]

Mercurians

Mercurians are not angels, they are trolls. I love the Mercurians. If you want to edit art files, a fun thing to do is change Basium's leader art to have the /b/ face or the troll face over his own. It makes everything so much better. Summoning them is a joy and a pleasure every time, and I wouldn't change them for the world.

 

[Sjru]

You want it, you code it. I have no interest in spending what time I have on something I do not want.

That's OK, fine then... nobody cares about making the game like those scenarios when you are swarmed by enemies... buh... no... I didn't mean that...

Mercurians are not angels, they are trolls. I love the Mercurians. If you want to edit art files, a fun thing to do is change Basium's leader art to have the /b/ face or the troll face over his own. It makes everything so much better. Summoning them is a joy and a pleasure every time, and I wouldn't change them for the world.

Please, could you share that with us? I'd like to see that.

 

[Calavente]

As for Infernals :
you gain a lot by summoning them : access to the second tech, can build the Infernal grimoire (+1 free tech) + the sacrifice the weak civic... + demon altar to sacrifice your mutated units that are too weak. über good for a AV civ.

Mercurians : the are lorewise how they should be.
They are not benevolent angels.
They are angels that live for eradiquating all demons. and all follower of evil fall angels. Thus they declare war.
Having them as allies is always a good plan. True you'll get some wars... but you'll also get powerful allies. Angels are powerful !
Normally the gate should be buildable only if infernals are created, in order to be a counter to them. But the AI never summoned them then.

Frozen.. no Ideas.

 

[Nicopol]

well, the Mercurians are stupid whor***s because they always give my tech lead away - lol (is there a way to prevent them from doing this without using the NO TECH TRADE option?)

also if i research a tech that will give me the chance to build a new wonder ( or ritual ) the mercurians ALWAYS try to build this wonder before i even have a chance to select it and have it in the build queue of one of my cities. because we are in the same team i cant build that wonder if hes trying to build it - I HATE THIS!! ( so i have to cheat -> remove that tech from out team and on the next turn i give that tech back to me and i can select the wonder to be build in my capital ...)
Question Nr2: is there a way that the mercurians have a one turn delay to select a chertain wonder or ritual so that the human player has a chance to build it without using the world builder?

 

[Sjru]

well, the Mercurians are stupid whor***s because they always give my tech lead away - lol (is there a way to prevent them from doing this without using the NO TECH TRADE option?)

also if i research a tech that will give me the chance to build a new wonder ( or ritual ) the mercurians ALWAYS try to build this wonder before i even have a chance to select it and have it in the build queue of one of my cities. because we are in the same team i cant build that wonder if hes trying to build it - I HATE THIS!! ( so i have to cheat -> remove that tech from out team and on the next turn i give that tech back to me and i can select the wonder to be build in my capital ...)
Question Nr2: is there a way that the mercurians have a one turn delay to select a chertain wonder or ritual so that the human player has a chance to build it without using the world builder?

Actually, happens with everyone when you are teamed.
Recently I came up with an idea (that nobody cared, as usual) to remove the "wonder rush" between teammates.
So, if you build Cathedral of Tali, your teammate should get that wonder benefits also (in their capital).
Or if you complete Blood of the phoenix, they also gets the benefits. And so on.
This way, it doesn't matter who build the wonders, because you will get benefits anyway.
Is a good idea? Or it is not?

 

[arcticnightwolf]

also if i research a tech that will give me the chance to build a new wonder ( or ritual ) the mercurians ALWAYS try to build this wonder before i even have a chance to select it and have it in the build queue of one of my cities. because we are in the same team i cant build that wonder if hes trying to build it - I HATE THIS!!

iirc, there is workaround for that case ... one turn before researching the tech, ask Merucians to switch tech research to something else (( via Diplomacy -> I want to discuss something else -> What do you think of researching )), this way AI won't have access to that wonder when it's their turn, and you get the tech just when your turn starts

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Well since most of the wonders bust the city they are built in no, it is not particularly bright. Especially since a player will want to chose a specific city for the wonder, not just randomly get it in some city. I mean, even wonders like the Guild of Hammers would still ruin the GPP preparations in a badly chosen city.

But for rituals and some of the things (like the mentioned Blood of the phoenix) it is quite a good idea. As long as it is not an actual one city only benefit (like those given by most wonders).


But you should do what I did, take up modding. Stop waiting for others to do it for you.

 

[Torugu]

Actually the Guild of Hammers and the Cathedral of Tali already work this way, every team member will get the free buildings.

 

[Milaga]

I'm ok with the Infernals appearing being more like an aftereffect of the Infernal Pact than a end unto itself, but I still think the AI is too casual on summoning them on Erebus -even if it is an unwanted effect. It's like they either believe they will be best friends forever, or they have the power to stop Hyborem and the Hell Terrain should they chose.

First I just want to point out that Hyborem has the ability to, once per game, convert any AV city to his own. At least I think he still has that ability. I haven't seen it in a while because I usually play "Compact Enforced." If you don't select that option, any game that can have the Infernals will. And I usually find the smaller games that I've been playing recently don't quite have that apocalytic feel to them. More of a regional conflict rather than the battle for all creation. I suggest using this option in some of your games. There is nothing more boring than always playing against the same civs.

If it's a "pact", I believe it could be more... tempting if it granted some kind of defense on the human part. Making Hyborem a vassal would be perfect, and it would also allow him to turn on his summoner should he become more powerful.

I believe the Infernal Pact is really an exchange of power for a way for Hyborem to enter Erebus. Hyborem might have implied he would behave once there, but he never agreed to it. I don't think he would show up as a vassal.

Can't their appearance at least be tied on the Armageddon Counter, adding a prerequisite to the Mercurian Gate? What in-game reason is there to complete it (and for the angels to enter the world) without a considerable "evil" to fight?

Basium is unpredictable, so it's kind of a good thing that there are no real prerequisites to him entering the game. However, I cannot remember the last time I played a game that he did not enter before Hyborem. Perhaps the gate could use more beakers in techs as a prerequisite.[/QUOTE]

also if i research a tech that will give me the chance to build a new wonder ( or ritual ) the mercurians ALWAYS try to build this wonder before i even have a chance to select it and have it in the build queue of one of my cities. because we are in the same team i cant build that wonder if hes trying to build it - I HATE THIS!!
...
Question Nr2: is there a way that the mercurians have a one turn delay to select a chertain wonder or ritual so that the human player has a chance to build it without using the world builder?

You could do what I do. A turn* before you are about to complete a tech, talk to your partner and suggest he switches research paths. This will ensure that you will get the tech at the start of your turn. You will then have all of that turn to start building wonders, heroes, whatever. Incidentally, this will also make sure that you found the religion or get the great person that comes along with that tech.

* Sometimes two or three turns to be safe. The AI tweaks their science percentage regularly, so you don't want to get caught losing out on a tech because the AI decides to crank it.

 

[Nicopol]

iirc, there is workaround for that case ... one turn before researching the tech, ask Merucians to switch tech research to something else (( via Diplomacy -> I want to discuss something else -> What do you think of researching )), this way AI won't have access to that wonder when it's their turn, and you get the tech just when your turn starts

[...]
You could do what I do. A turn* before you are about to complete a tech, talk to your partner and suggest he switches research paths. This will ensure that you will get the tech at the start of your turn. You will then have all of that turn to start building wonders, heroes, whatever. Incidentally, this will also make sure that you found the religion or get the great person that comes along with that tech.

* Sometimes two or three turns to be safe. The AI tweaks their science percentage regularly, so you don't want to get caught losing out on a tech because the AI decides to crank it.

that's a big help, thx a lot!!

i think there is no solution for the tech trade problen, isn't it? well, i think i just will not build the gate...

 

[Tsukasa]

i dont know if it was asked before:
is there any chance that you will merge the more events mod?
i love the elven hamlet event! that would keep the events a bit more interesting

Not only is there a chance... With 1.31 it has been converted to a fully modular format.

Thank you for that!

I think one of the problems now with 1.30 is the repetitive nature of events. I realize these are 'random,' however, in my current game I got the event that caused me to lose 1 population 4 times - all in the early going of the game. I never use the option that gives more events.

I think by adding more different events to the mix, it becomes less likely you will get the same event over and over again.

Also, please remember the Hunter's Catch event is still broken and it would be nice to be fixed (so you could purchase an animal), or taken out of the game.

Thank you.

Thank Black_Imperator and Jemon.

BI is the author, and converted it to RifE (and is actively developing it). Jemon took the non-modular version and made it modular.

Oh, and Snarko, for fixing the issue with modular events.

"fixing the issue with modular events" seems to be exactly what i was looking for

i also made a modular mod of "FFH More Events ModMod" and "FFH More Events Modmod Expanded" (lol) because they where part of "Moderator Action: Mana Flares and Unique Events Add-On" which i made compatible with 1.30 in a more or less modular way...

The problem i had with modular events (and which i hope are solved now):
If there was an event that had its own mouse over python help text there was no problem.
But if there was an event without the mouse over help text it showed me a buged python event help text from the first event that was made in the modular way.
The event worked as intended but it was an ugly graphic effect.
Is this problem solved?
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889