Ideas, Requests, and Feedback

[Nikis-Knight]

Okay, thanks. I'll kill it in WB then.

 

[Rapier]

So is this a Khazad specific bug when they build the cauldron? (I had an experience with this in a recent game, but as the Legion so it just fed me slaves and made the game a bit of a joke )

 

[Torugu]

Nope, it's not Khazad specific.

Normally the cauldron causes all living units to be respawned as demons (with the demon racial), demons aren't alive so they can't respawn again.
However due to a bug the demon racial isn't applied properly allowing respawned units to respawn again, and again, and again, and again....

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Here's some ai oddities I've noticed the last few games:
Hyborem was creating a lot of great healers. He has no reason to use healers, I think (unless fallow is changed).
Sheaim are building Elegy even when the counter is 100 (perhaps it should have some special effect in that case, like a minor version of world break? But currently it is a waste of production)
Amurites are casting their worldspell on turn one (or there is some other reason for casting to be blocked?)

I don't know how closely ai building or casting is controlled, but if you give the ai another look over you could consider those.

 

[Valkrionn]

Here's some ai oddities I've noticed the last few games:
Hyborem was creating a lot of great healers. He has no reason to use healers, I think (unless fallow is changed).
Sheaim are building Elegy even when the counter is 100 (perhaps it should have some special effect in that case, like a minor version of world break? But currently it is a waste of production)
Amurites are casting their worldspell on turn one (or there is some other reason for casting to be blocked?)

I don't know how closely ai building or casting is controlled, but if you give the ai another look over you could consider those.

The healer... I'm not sure what to do with, aside from add code making sure that the AI does not use healer specialists if it's city has NO need for health (which would be unlimited health, rather than fallow, thanks to the Scions and their health mechanics).

The second... We should do something interesting there. Though it's a good thing to hear that they are building it TOO much.

The third is due to the wild mana gameoption; The pyreq requires so much typed mana in the world. Needs to be changed to take that option into account.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

You could give the fallow civs unique buildings for those that give healer slots that do not, or restrict them entirely if they are only health buildings.
Is there a list of known issues? I don't want to bombard you with things that are probably fixed already as I just get into your mod.

 

[Valkrionn]

You could give the fallow civs unique buildings for those that give healer slots that do not, or restrict them entirely if they are only health buildings.
Is there a list of known issues? I don't want to bombard you with things that are probably fixed already as I just get into your mod.

There's no real list atm, sadly. We don't mind answering things though.

And yes, that works for those specific civs, but there are ways to gain unlimited health for a city for other civs as well, and those cities should not be assigning healers.

 

[Bioroid]

Valkrionn,

when will you move Rise from Erebus to CIV 5? Will anyone ever try to make FFH like mode in CIV 5? I'm so impatient waiting for this. Civ 5 battle thing are so much smarter then in CIV 4 and all the annoying stuff with pleasing and making healthy citizens are so much simplified.

 

[Valkrionn]

In short, never. We have absolutely no plans to ever recreate FfH for civ5; For one, we feel it would be wrong to do so without Kael, and for another, we are tired of working within someone else's world.

Already answered in the FAQ thread, btw.

Spoiler :

Will there be a Rise from Erebus for Civilization 5?

• In short, no. We feel that without Kael, recreating Fall from Heaven is in poor taste. However, much of the Rise from Erebus and Fall Further teams are involved in creating a new mod, titled Eden; It will be a fantasy mod, but I cannot say more on the subject at this time. ETA is unknown, as we need DLL access.
• The Eden Team is made up of Grey Fox (as lead design), myself, Opera, Xienwolf, and Warkirby. We also already possess a (private) team forum, first for a Civilization 5 mod on CfC.

Even if we did want to do it, it would not happen for months; DLL access would be extremely necessary. And is what we are waiting on for Eden.

 

[Bioroid]

Valkrionn

Or no ...not "Eden". Please, think of other epic dark fantasy name. Eden sounds very "anime" and "happy" like. I think FFH was so popular mainly because it is DARK fantasy world. SADNESS from FFH is so sweet !! Even the name fascinates and attracts you from the very first moment: "Fall from Heaven". Just read this title. The title itself is pure music. Sadness makes games to be epic. Gothics, Arcana music, abominations, desolations, undead thombs, daemons speaking latin..... things like that ...

Did you ever played Disciples II? If you did, then you know what I mean.
I will give you the idea of conceptual arts and atmosphere with screanshots :

 

[Valkrionn]

Valkrionn

Or no ...not "Eden". Please, think of other epic dark fantasy name. Eden sounds very "anime" and "happy" like. I think FFH was so popular mainly because it is DARK fantasy world. SADNESS from FFH is so sweet !! Even the name fascinates and attracts you from the very first moment: "Fall from Heaven". Just read this title. The title itself is pure music. Sadness makes games to be epic. Gothics, Arcana music, abominations, desolations, undead thombs, daemons speaking latin..... things like that ...

Did you ever played Disciples II? If you did, then you know what I mean.
I will give you the idea of conceptual arts and atmosphere with screanshots :

There is a reason it's called Eden, and it's far from a "happy" setting. It's not as dark as FfH, but it is far from fluffy bunnies.

Think about what Eden is, what it symbolizes, and you may be able to get a few clues.

 

[Bioroid]

Valkrionn
For me Eden symbolizes paradise garden: beautiful eternal trees, fruits, animals ... and fluffy bunnies. Really. And it is something "Bible" like.

The title and concept is about 40% of success I would say. Please speak about it with Grey Fox.

Other things of dark atmosphere: rain, mist, vampires, tombs... Neverwinter Nights with beautiful music of Jeremy Soule, Ravenloft: prisoners of the mist, Silent Hill. FFH 2 contains many sounds from Neverwinter Nights and Disciples 2. Kael had a very nice taste how it should be.

 

[Tschuggi]

"Eden" alone means for me sth in bright, holy light, green, Adam and Eve... Maybe Eden should only be a part of the name, like Heaven was only a part of Fall from Heaven. It is the "fall" that gives all the feeling, that gives "Heaven" its counterpart, its real meaning.
In english, garden of eden comes to my mind. But: too bright.
Maybe: Tombs of eden. Edens' end. Nightmares in Eden. Edens' Inferno. Tombs in Eden.
An alliteration would be good (sounds good: Fall from Heaven. Never Winter Nights.
So "Edens' End"? End of Eden. Ejection from Eden. Dark Eden.

Ideas? Suggestions?

 

[Torugu]

Eden is just fine, I don't know why you chose this name but for the word "Eden" is inevitably associated with the concept of distortion and corruption.
Take the biblical Eden for once, if you look past the butterflies you'll find that it has some frightening similarities to North Korea (no free will, a hermetically isolated world). And it get's worse, after all the genesis doesn't exactly have a happy ending, man is thrown and the "perfect" world of Eden is ultimately doomed.
And this doesn't even take into account the negative connotations which many modern authors have added to the word.

tl;dr: I think Eden is an excellent name.


PS: I'm not entirely sure why you would associate "anime" with "happy".

 

[PPQ_Purple]

PS: I'm not entirely sure why you would associate "anime" with "happy".

Try watching Neon Genesis Evangelion and you will understand.

 

[Valkrionn]

Valkrionn
For me Eden symbolizes paradise garden: beautiful eternal trees, fruits, animals ... and fluffy bunnies. Really. And it is something "Bible" like.

The title and concept is about 40% of success I would say. Please speak about it with Grey Fox.

Other things of dark atmosphere: rain, mist, vampires, tombs... Neverwinter Nights with beautiful music of Jeremy Soule, Ravenloft: prisoners of the mist, Silent Hill. FFH 2 contains many sounds from Neverwinter Nights and Disciples 2. Kael had a very nice taste how it should be.

Dig deeper. The name implies much more.

"Eden" alone means for me sth in bright, holy light, green, Adam and Eve... Maybe Eden should only be a part of the name, like Heaven was only a part of Fall from Heaven. It is the "fall" that gives all the feeling, that gives "Heaven" its counterpart, its real meaning.
In english, garden of eden comes to my mind. But: too bright.
Maybe: Tombs of eden. Edens' end. Nightmares in Eden. Edens' Inferno. Tombs in Eden.
An alliteration would be good (sounds good: Fall from Heaven. Never Winter Nights.
So "Edens' End"? End of Eden. Ejection from Eden. Dark Eden.

Ideas? Suggestions?

Again, the name implies much more. It's a nice little twist, but I doubt anyone who didn't already know would get it.

Eden is just fine, I don't know why you chose this name but for the word "Eden" is inevitably associated with the concept of distortion and corruption.
Take the biblical Eden for once, if you look past the butterflies you'll find that it has some frightening similarities to North Korea (no free will, a hermetically isolated world). And it get's worse, after all the genesis doesn't exactly have a happy ending, man is thrown and the "perfect" world of Eden is ultimately doomed.
And this doesn't even take into account the negative connotations which many modern authors have added to the word.

tl;dr: I think Eden is an excellent name.


PS: I'm not entirely sure why you would associate "anime" with "happy".

All good reasons, though actually not the reasons we used.

 

[Actuarian]

I like the concept of the hawk, but I don't think it works all that well in its current form. There are two main problems as I see it. First, the hawk seems to me to be overpowered at scouting when attached to a hunter. Secondly, it doesn't make sense that a hunter with a hawk suddenly can't board a boat (unless there is some boarding trick I don't know about).

Here's my idea. Leave the hawk unit as is when it is based in cities, but don't allow it to board hunters. Instead give it a hawk-blood-like spell. The hawk would be destroyed if the spell were cast and a 'falcon' equipment would be created.

For any unit that can currently have hawks board them, instead have them start with the 'falcon trainer' promotion. Make any unit with the 'falcon trainer' promotion be able to equip the 'falcon' and get a 'falconer' promotion. This promotion would give the unit a +2 increased line of sight and allow it to see through any terrain. This way the hawk could be passed between hunters. Alternatively you could just give a promotion directly to a hunter instead of creating equipment for a hunter to use; it couldn't be passed from hunter to hunter. In combination with other promotions a hunter could still end up with a really good scouting ability, but it would have to be a goal for that unit.


Here's another idea for animals - I know I'm late to the game but I'll suggest it anyway - it might also be something to incorporate with your Civ V modding. You could explore the concept of turning higher level animals into 'companion' promotions. Give higher level animals the opportunity to get the 'exceptional animal' promotion. This would allow them to sacrifice themselves and grant the 'companion' bonus to certain types of units. Each animal would grant a different bonus, like movement, attack, resistance, etc. to a unit of a certain class. These would be better than the 'blood' promotions since you would need to sacrifice a high level animal to get them. You probably wouldn't want to allow more than one companion promotion for a single unit. Here are a few examples. A wolf could be a 'wolf companion' for a scout unit and grant +1 movement, +1 attack and a 50% bonus against other animals. A tiger could be a 'tiger companion' for a melee unit and grant +1 attack, +1 defense and 25% bonus in forest and jungles. A stag could be a 'spiritual guide' for a clerical unit and grant +1 defense, +10% healing and extra spell effacy. A scorpion could be a 'familiar' for a magic user and grant posion resistance and +2 defense. A griffon could be an 'aerial scout' for archers and improve their archery abilities, defense and withdrawal ability.

 

[Valkrionn]

I like the concept of the hawk, but I don't think it works all that well in its current form. There are two main problems as I see it. First, the hawk seems to me to be overpowered at scouting when attached to a hunter. Secondly, it doesn't make sense that a hunter with a hawk suddenly can't board a boat (unless there is some boarding trick I don't know about).

Here's my idea. Leave the hawk unit as is when it is based in cities, but don't allow it to board hunters. Instead give it a hawk-blood-like spell. The hawk would be destroyed if the spell were cast and a 'falcon' equipment would be created.

For any unit that can currently have hawks board them, instead have them start with the 'falcon trainer' promotion. Make any unit with the 'falcon trainer' promotion be able to equip the 'falcon' and get a 'falconer' promotion. This promotion would give the unit a +2 increased line of sight and allow it to see through any terrain. This way the hawk could be passed between hunters. Alternatively you could just give a promotion directly to a hunter instead of creating equipment for a hunter to use; it couldn't be passed from hunter to hunter. In combination with other promotions a hunter could still end up with a really good scouting ability, but it would have to be a goal for that unit.

It's possible. Honestly, I just don't use hawks. Never found them interesting.

Here's another idea for animals - I know I'm late to the game but I'll suggest it anyway - it might also be something to incorporate with your Civ V modding. You could explore the concept of turning higher level animals into 'companion' promotions. Give higher level animals the opportunity to get the 'exceptional animal' promotion. This would allow them to sacrifice themselves and grant the 'companion' bonus to certain types of units. Each animal would grant a different bonus, like movement, attack, resistance, etc. to a unit of a certain class. These would be better than the 'blood' promotions since you would need to sacrifice a high level animal to get them. You probably wouldn't want to allow more than one companion promotion for a single unit. Here are a few examples. A wolf could be a 'wolf companion' for a scout unit and grant +1 movement, +1 attack and a 50% bonus against other animals. A tiger could be a 'tiger companion' for a melee unit and grant +1 attack, +1 defense and 25% bonus in forest and jungles. A stag could be a 'spiritual guide' for a clerical unit and grant +1 defense, +10% healing and extra spell effacy. A scorpion could be a 'familiar' for a magic user and grant posion resistance and +2 defense. A griffon could be an 'aerial scout' for archers and improve their archery abilities, defense and withdrawal ability.

This is more or less already in, though it applies specifically to Recon units, and is not available for other unitcombats.

Check the [Animal Name Here] Blood promotions.

 

[Opera]

I say, screw them hawks.

(not that way)

 

[Actuarian]

I say, screw them hawks.

(not that way)

They are extemely overpowered - in the current form it makes a sneak attack almost impossible. Maybe you could just get rid of the hawks.