Think of it as style rather than grammar.
[RD] I'm transitioning. If you've ever been confused about the T in LGBT, ask me anything
- Thread starter emzie
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Think of it as style rather than grammar.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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This is exactly the kind of prickish reply that made me very reluctant to even ask the question in the first place. It was absolutely inevitable that certain types of people would immediately get their backs up. But it was something I didn't understand and if you don't ask, you don't find out. But yes, well done for being so cool and awesome and open about it. Utter bellend.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
This is a thread for answering questions, no? This wasn't the sole answer you got, yet you seem to have focused on the snidest reply, which I find interesting. Beyond that, I think you'll be fine. We can't eat you through the screen, and I think that your ego isn't so fragile.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
I wondered the same thing 
Like I know a transwoman who, attracted to men, also refers to herself as gay, as in the male side of gay, and identified or still does as genderfluid to some degree as well as now as a transwoman. So like, there can be individuals who aren't going to fit into one box and might want seemingly contradicting labels.
So while obviously listing both forms of pronoun makes it clear it's a pronoun discussion, it's redundant definitely opens up the question if someone, for one of a million reasons you might find articulated on tumblr half a decade ago, had a reason to be he/her or she/him or whatever.
Like I know a transwoman who, attracted to men, also refers to herself as gay, as in the male side of gay, and identified or still does as genderfluid to some degree as well as now as a transwoman. So like, there can be individuals who aren't going to fit into one box and might want seemingly contradicting labels.
So while obviously listing both forms of pronoun makes it clear it's a pronoun discussion, it's redundant definitely opens up the question if someone, for one of a million reasons you might find articulated on tumblr half a decade ago, had a reason to be he/her or she/him or whatever.
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I've always seen it as three ... he/him/his, she/her/hers, they/them/theirs, etc?
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
I've only seen it a few places. I like it.
I gave you a clear and non-hostile answer that you are choosing to ignore. Instead, you offer two dick references and a double entendre for anal sex? You protest too much.
I'm not sure what to do regarding a situation I've found myself in and would be grateful for advice.
I have/had a transgender friend over the last year, and I feel like she's been using me to validate herself as a woman. What really brought the feeling up was how she basically ghosted me after I became pregnant; at first I thought she was a friend I could talk to, since I've been there so much for her. And I realized how previously, whenever I'd try to talk to her about something going on in my life (my own depression, family problems, etc) she'd quickly change the subject back to herself after offering me a very brief note of sympathy. She did the same thing when I told her about how I was pregnant (she was one of the first people I told), and other than a quick "Congrats", I've barely heard two words from her since.
Looking back, a lot of little things she said, just makes me feel like to her I was just some woman who she could use to make herself feel like she's been accepted by female friends, without really being a friend herself. I have been very happy for her, and loved being there for her, but feel a bit drained that this friendship has been very one-sided, and I don't like being used.
I have/had a transgender friend over the last year, and I feel like she's been using me to validate herself as a woman. What really brought the feeling up was how she basically ghosted me after I became pregnant; at first I thought she was a friend I could talk to, since I've been there so much for her. And I realized how previously, whenever I'd try to talk to her about something going on in my life (my own depression, family problems, etc) she'd quickly change the subject back to herself after offering me a very brief note of sympathy. She did the same thing when I told her about how I was pregnant (she was one of the first people I told), and other than a quick "Congrats", I've barely heard two words from her since.
Looking back, a lot of little things she said, just makes me feel like to her I was just some woman who she could use to make herself feel like she's been accepted by female friends, without really being a friend herself. I have been very happy for her, and loved being there for her, but feel a bit drained that this friendship has been very one-sided, and I don't like being used.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
In such a case, I would say that you have to set your boundaries. A friendship can't be a one-way street, in my opinion, and you should set your views clear, that if she can't reciprocate the positive attention that you're giving to her, she shouldn't be your friend
Treat her the same as a cis woman who acted as she has. I suspect you're right about why she has acted the way she has (your description is common) but ultimately the issue isn't her gender identity but her behaviour.
Thanks. It's hard, and I feel really hurt, but I also don't want to hurt her. I have an unfortunate tendency to let myself be used.
This made me think of another question though, something she would talk about a lot, and that's the concept of "passing." This is something I really have a lot of difficulty understanding, and it's almost certainly because I don't know what it's like being on the receiving end of that sort of prejudice.
But a lot of things she said, made me feel like she wasn't trying to pass as a real woman, but rather was trying to pass as a man's image of what an ideal woman should be, if I'm making sense? This really bothered me a lot, because women come in all different shapes, sizes, and appearances. We don't all have hourglass figures, melodic voices, gorgeous lashes, full boobs, etc. Some of us are tall, some of us have no hips, some of us have excessive body hair and even facial hair. Some of us are flat-chested, some of us don't menstruate, some have husky voices or giant chins. And on and on.
I get she wants to be beautiful, I totally feel that. I feel like it just really, really bothered me to keep hearing that to be a woman, you have to be some kind of sexualized ideal. Honestly, the way I heard her (and other transwomen online) talk about it was probably the most male-ish thing, and made me really uncomfortable.
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on what I'm sure is a very complex issue. I'm sorry if I seem insensitive, I'm just trying to offer my point of view as a ciswoman.
This made me think of another question though, something she would talk about a lot, and that's the concept of "passing." This is something I really have a lot of difficulty understanding, and it's almost certainly because I don't know what it's like being on the receiving end of that sort of prejudice.
But a lot of things she said, made me feel like she wasn't trying to pass as a real woman, but rather was trying to pass as a man's image of what an ideal woman should be, if I'm making sense? This really bothered me a lot, because women come in all different shapes, sizes, and appearances. We don't all have hourglass figures, melodic voices, gorgeous lashes, full boobs, etc. Some of us are tall, some of us have no hips, some of us have excessive body hair and even facial hair. Some of us are flat-chested, some of us don't menstruate, some have husky voices or giant chins. And on and on.
I get she wants to be beautiful, I totally feel that. I feel like it just really, really bothered me to keep hearing that to be a woman, you have to be some kind of sexualized ideal. Honestly, the way I heard her (and other transwomen online) talk about it was probably the most male-ish thing, and made me really uncomfortable.
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on what I'm sure is a very complex issue. I'm sorry if I seem insensitive, I'm just trying to offer my point of view as a ciswoman.
MaryKB said:
It shouldn't be terribly surprising, since most trans women are socialized as boys. In my opinion, you should tell her this bit you've laid out here: "women come in all different shapes, sizes, and appearances. We don't all have hourglass figures, melodic voices, gorgeous lashes, full boobs, etc. Some of us are tall, some of us have no hips, some of us have excessive body hair and even facial hair. Some of us are flat-chested, some of us don't menstruate, some have husky voices or giant chins. And on and on."
That's how patriarchy do, though. And you get the same opinion from cis women too, see: American Samoa's introduction to Barbie and subsequent girls' body issues.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
I hate to break this to you but even cis women fail to pass; it's a hundred percent subjective and fluid.
That's a big part of why I hate the whole "passing" thing. Who gets to decide who passes and who doesn't? Whether you're cis or trans, you should never feel you're not woman enough because you don't meet male expectations of attractiveness.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
People want validation.
The concept of passing is undoubtedly toxic, but I and other transpeople desperately wish for a day where gender isn't treated like a binary option (which it isnt) but us instead viewed as a spectrum.
The need to pass and live "stealth" isn't just about feeling validated but also for reasons of safety, which is why we covet and obsess over it, even if it means reinforcing the same system that ultimately harms us.
In the past you literally had too in order to access help and you can still see that in the views of transmedicalists/truscum
Right, sometimes you get in an It’s Pat type situation when you really don’t know but I think that’s more unusual with cisgender women. There are a lot of unfeminine cisgender women who most people would still assume are women.
I don’t think it’s just male expectations. There are feminine women who are considered plain or unattractive and women like Annie Lennox and Grace Jones who have an androgynous look but are still considered attractive.
Oh the irony ...
Each of us decides who passes. Someone passes for me if what I think about their identity matches what they think about their identity. It doesn't have anything to do with attractiveness nor, I think, with femininity or masculinity. I don't know what triggers the identification for me. I'm neither self-aware nor observant, though.
I'm a cis-woman, but I'm also a 6 foot tall, athletic, short-haired lesbian. I get misgendered a lot at first glance, but it isn't about expectations of attractiveness so much as about expectations of size, I think. With kids it is often an expectation that since my kids have two parents, they have a mom and a dad. Clearly I'm the dad since I'm the tall one. With elderly women feeling anxious in a restroom, it is that I'm twice their size. (I would never know about these women, except that they like to talk about it with my wife; this I don't understand.)
On-Topic Question:
As a teacher, I have students who I assume are trans because the name they use in class seems differently gendered than the name on the official roster. I use the name a student gives me (rather than the roster name), and it doesn't cause any problems - the "official name" never comes up. However, we are now using Microsoft Teams for class, with some students attending virtually and some attending in person. We are stuck with "official names" as our labels there, and I have no control over that. Are there things that I can do to help students feel more comfortable in my class when the computer insists on using the wrong name for them, besides consistently using the correct name?
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Best practice, I think, would be to consistently use their name in the classroom, of course, and just ignore their deadname. But if it is possible to influence the technical side of it (it sounds like the 'official names' are put up by school administration?), I would recommend that you pressure them to resolve this, if you could. If it is really a purely technical issue with Microsoft Teams (sidenote: I have never used said program), is it possible to register alternative accounts with their actual names and admit them in your classroom?
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