Well hypothetical situations in which we don't know the gender of the person involved is something everyone is going to come across regularly. However most people aren't bothered by gendered pronouns and I think even many transgender people may prefer the pronoun they transitioned to so I think the majority of society may not get used to using they as a total substitute for he/she in all situations.
[RD] I'm transitioning. If you've ever been confused about the T in LGBT, ask me anything
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Well hypothetical situations in which we don't know the gender of the person involved is something everyone is going to come across regularly. However most people aren't bothered by gendered pronouns and I think even many transgender people may prefer the pronoun they transitioned to so I think the majority of society may not get used to using they as a total substitute for he/she in all situations.
You are agnostic.
Use the pronoun of how the individual is presenting. If it's not obvious, ask us politely. We'll tell you.
The best exchange I had when I was starting out went something like this,
Me: "Hello."
Him: "Hi."
Me: "[question]?"
Him: "Yes, I'd be happy to help you with that. But first, prefered pronouns?"
Me: "Female"
Him: "Okay. [Proceeds to start answering question]"
If you return right to the conversation using the right pronoun, it will probably one of the nicest interactions the individual has ever had. I still remember that guy.
_random_
Jewel Runner
I asked this a while back and I think you missed it, although if you just chose not to answer it I apologize for dragging it back up.
I missed it, sorry.
She was agnostic and ambivalent for a few years before I started my transition.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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That did occur to me. But I'm not sure even that is true.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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But doesn't that just make it very obvious that he noticed you were transgender? I can't imagine he asks all people that. You found that really nice, but I could imagine other people possibly finding that insulting. (I'm imagining that this was a complete stranger in a shop or a library or something whom you were asking for help by the way, but maybe I got the context wrong.)
That's basically saying "I'm not sure whether you are a man or a woman". Many people will definitely find this insulting.
Well, if it's just two people, yeah. Introduce a third person and you want to reference me to the third party you're going to have to use a gendered pronoun or become very creative with your language. Avoiding saying s/he is so conspicuous that if you try that, the individual is likely just going to come right out and say "I prefer ____"
Oh god, I don't mean ask every trans individual you meet! I mean ask in a situation where you're honestly unsure how the person is trying to present.
Imagine you meet an individual and your first, honest-to-god thought is, "that dude's wearing a dress" (which happens to me too, sometimes). As you listen, you notice she's speaking with a falsetto. You don't need to ask, you can assume female pronouns.
You ask when you meet someone who you honestly cannot tell which way they're transitioning, if they're transitioning at all.
I wanna clarify, it's not the first question I'd ask. I'd not recommend walking up to someone, offering your hand and saying, "Hi, I'm Manfred Belheim. What pronouns do you use?"
A good strategy can be to continue the conversation without asking. Many people will offer up their preferred pronoun ("Rachael and I are like sisters omg") or you'll be able to put pieces together. Unless we're stupid jerks, we deal with this situation enough to read you better than you read us. We'll help you out if you need it.
Well, there are jerks everywhere. Some people want to be offended as a way to control an interaction or perhaps just to inflict pain on others instead of feeling it themselves. You can't do much about that. As long as you make an effort to treat people as human beings, don't worry if crazy people yell
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
What I do is basically.. Well, I look at the person, if this person looks like a she, I call her a she. If he looks like a he, I call him a he. If I can't tell, I try not to use any pronouns, but this has never ever happened. And if I think that the person is transgendered and it could go either way in terms of self-identification, I would probably be too embarrassed to ask, so I would avoid using pronouns as well, but mainly because I'm conditioned to think that asking someone whether they prefer "he" or "she" is rude. I realize that in this case this is not so, but I probably wouldn't ask. I figure they would tell me if our conversation went on longer than a simple exchange. Is that reasonable enough?
A few times I met people whose gender I honestly was unable to identify. But usually there are no problems with pronouns in conversations with strangers. You don't use "he" or "she" addressing a person, you use "you". Verbs and adjectives in English are gender-neutral too.
I have seen people whose gender I couldn't identify including one of the cleaners where I work, which is very unusual in this culture. However all of these people I've had minimal interaction with and don't really talk about them with other people so I don't have to use a pronoun.
I would certainly use whichever pronoun someone wanted if it was he or she but if someone wants me to use xe or ze, well if ze really wanted me to use it I suppose I'd go along but I'd feel it was pretty ridiculous.
I would certainly use whichever pronoun someone wanted if it was he or she but if someone wants me to use xe or ze, well if ze really wanted me to use it I suppose I'd go along but I'd feel it was pretty ridiculous.
I'd think so.
I got off track in answering questions like this. I answered how I handle these situations. However, since I'm in support groups for trans people and have a few trans friends (who themselves have other trans friends), I run into these situations a lot more often than any of you. Don't give my answers more weight than the opinions of one woman, because that's all they are. If you're respectful and polite -- you know, if you act like a human and treat the other person as a human -- you'll be okay.
I have never personally met someone who used non-standard pronouns. I find the concept bizarre, though if someone stated that was their preference, I would try and respect their wishes.
Wrymouth3
Emperor
Sorry if I missed it earlier, but would you consider yourself a lesbian or heterosexual at this point in time? I think it's an interesting concept to look at philosophically, and to get many perspectives on that.
Lesbian.
Omega124
Challenging Fate
I've mentioned before that I said I consider myself a gynosexual. That just means I'm attracted to women, without nessecairly indicating my own gender in relation to my attraction.
Honestly I believe it'd be a lot better if we switched over to describing our sexual orientation by what were actually attracted to, and not nessecairly by relation to our own gender identity. Androsexual is the male equilivent of gynosexual, which means you like men. And then bisexual still means you like both.
Of course I can't force people to change how they talk. Besides myself (since I'm still at a gender limbo since I'm not physically female no matter how hard I try, but I'd rather die than call myself male), I still end up using the more commonly used gay/straight since I prefer people understanding what I mean over being right.
Akka
Moody old mage.
Pretty interesting thread. For many of us, I'm sure it's a unique occasion to have a glance into the window of a completely different experience and point of view, into a world that is really "foreign".
I've also find it both fascinating and perplexing to see the conflicted issues of significant other's and sexual attraction - both Contre's wife defining herself as heterosexual, and Omega talking about gynosexuality, and yet both ending up with someone who is the opposite of their professed preferences. Well, human behaviour is all but binary obviously.
As the ever curious one, a thing that I wonder but am a bit wary to ask, because it could be something that is a sensitive spot : what do you think, and how do you deal, with people who consider that a trans is not a "real" woman ? With people who have a hard time calling you "she/her" and see you still as a man ? I'm not really talking about social interaction (I suppose you just try to avoid talking to them or the like), but more how you perceive this point of view and how it differs from yours.
I've also find it both fascinating and perplexing to see the conflicted issues of significant other's and sexual attraction - both Contre's wife defining herself as heterosexual, and Omega talking about gynosexuality, and yet both ending up with someone who is the opposite of their professed preferences. Well, human behaviour is all but binary obviously.
As the ever curious one, a thing that I wonder but am a bit wary to ask, because it could be something that is a sensitive spot : what do you think, and how do you deal, with people who consider that a trans is not a "real" woman ? With people who have a hard time calling you "she/her" and see you still as a man ? I'm not really talking about social interaction (I suppose you just try to avoid talking to them or the like), but more how you perceive this point of view and how it differs from yours.
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