[RD] I'm transitioning. If you've ever been confused about the T in LGBT, ask me anything

[caketastydelish]

I am not a denier that the trans community faces discrimination. I simply asked whether or not they are victims of homicide on a per capita basis more compared to CIS people. Nobody pulled up a statistic that would either prove or disprove it, so I guess we'll never know.

 

[emzie]

I am not a denier that the trans community faces discrimination. I simply asked whether or not they are victims of homicide on a per capita basis more compared to CIS people. Nobody pulled up a statistic that would either prove or disprove it, so I guess we'll never know.

I'm pretty sure you're not trying to be a jerk. So I'll try and explain.

Most of the transwomen who were murdered last year were involved in sex work, which is a dangerous job. The unemployment rate for transwomen is bad. Like, really bad. For many, getting SRS, something some of us need, requires turning to where you can make money.

I don't doubt that you'd expect a higher rate of murder among sex workers in general, but given the circumstances of most these you have to say it's reasonable to conclude it might be higher than the like, background sexworker murder rate.

And instead of taking my word on this, you're asking for statistics. I don't have those. As far as I'm aware, it's not been studied to the level of a low p value. You're asking for something I cannot produce, so instead I'm telling you what I think is likely, based on the world I live in. You, I presume, have no intention of starting up HRT and experiencing this for yourself (nor should you, obviously) so our word is the closest you can get to what it would be like to experience.

And my experience is this: I'm not afraid of being murdered, but I'm afraid of being raped or being beaten half to death because I exist. And that knowledge is always hanging around in the back of my head.

 

[caketastydelish]

I honestly have no idea what the average murder rate for sex workers is, whether we're talking about trans or cis people.

I dated a stripper (who I believe was CIS... if she's trans she never mentioned it) who claimed she'd been raped by different men multiple times. Although she's only one person, you certainly can't make across-the-board generalizations about sex workers based on only one person.

I only see three possibilities, based on your information that the majority of trans people murdered were sex workers:

1) people murder trans people who are sex workers, because they think trans people shouldn't be allowed to be sex workers.

2) trans people in general are much more likely than cis people to be sex workers, so by extension lots of the trans people who are murdered happen to also be sex workers

3) sex workers are likely to get murdered, whether they are cis or trans.

I have no data, but I'm betting the answer is somewhere between 1) and 3).

2) and 3) are the two possibilities that don't involve outright discrimination against trans people specifically because they are trans. But 2) could only make sense if literally 50% or more of trans people are sex workers, which I highly doubt is the case.

I used to regularly go to strip clubs and I know 3) is true because I've seen it with my own eyes. However, the same horrible men who would be abusive to CIS women sex workers would presumably be even worse to trans women sex workers.

 

[emzie]

Cake, I encourage you to open a thread on this topic if you should so choose, but I'd prefer you not continue asking questions on this line of conversation within this thread. This is Q&A about an uncommon experience. It's not a thread for debate.

edit: this came off a bit more bitc catty than I intended. I'm not mad, though a bit frustrated. Don't take that too personally, Cake. >.<

 

[Cheetah]

No, that really doesn't help at all, sorry. All you said seems to be "its unexpected, so therefore I did something wrong". But unexpected stuff happens to everyone and their children, and rarely the reaction is that negative. In fact, I can't think of much examples where I can think an unexpected relavation would bring that much negativity (maybe being found out your kid is a criminal? Even then I feel parents are more willing to engage in mental gymnastics to keep their perception of their sweet baby alive) There has to be something underlying to have someone question why they screwed up raising their kid after they come out as LGBT, something more than just "it's unexpected"

I don't think there is, subconsciously/instinctively speaking, though specific religious or political beliefs can surely play a part. I'm not sure I can explain it any better, so I'll just leave it for now, by saying that I don't think you or any other transgender person did anything wrong, and I don't think Darsnan thought that about his daughter either.

That's my point, actually. Transgender is an adjective. Adjectives do not have a past form. You don't say something was greened, or larged, or heavied. Likewise, we do not transgendered, because -ed is for past term verbs, not adjectives. It doesn't make grammatical sense, and the implications are rude. So please, can you just say trans(gender) person? Or even just trans if the adjectival form is too much for you? The verb form really makes you sound ignorant and is rude.

I'm sorry if I appear rude, I have no intention of insulting you.

Seeing as how English isn't my native tongue, I suppose I should be a bit careful with my claims, but are you sure it isn't possible to append -ed to some adjectives? I thought I was using it correctly, and tried to look it up now as well:

From Dictionary.com, which is based on Random House Dictionary, it seems transgendered is a an alternative form?

transgender
[trans-jen-der, tranz&#8208;]
adjective, Also, transgendered

The usage note was also quite interesting, especially when compared to how you explained it earlier:

Usage note
The term transgender has largely replaced the older term transsexual, which is now considered outdated. Transgender is a less clinical term, referring more to gender identity and gender expression than to sexual orientation or physical sex characteristics. It is also a more general and inclusive term: a transgender person may be gay, transsexual, transvestite, or even genderqueer. Some transgender people object to the adjectival variant transgendered, because the &#8211;ed suffix could imply that something &#8220;happened&#8221; to make the person transgender. The adjective is more common than the noun; in fact, some people reject the use of transgender as a noun.

My emphasis on the last part.

So, if I'm not completely lost here, using the form transgendered as an adjective seems correct. But if it does bother you, I'll try my best to write 'transgender person' for the rest of this thread.

 

[Darsnan]

So you live in NY? D:

Where exactly are you? General location is fine; NYC, capital district, WNY, etc. Just kind of curious.

CNY.

I understand you changed, but I'm still curious what your thought process was at the time. I'm really asking because I want to be able to possibly empthaize with my parents more, maybe? I just really don't understand how you /could/ be against it, I guess is what I'm saying. Sorry if I came on too harshly.

No, I don't think you came across too harshly. However as far as trying to glean my thought processes and proscribe them to your parents, statistically speaking I don't think there is going to necessarily be a good correlation there.
My observations about society are that humans are very social animals, and we continually seek the acceptance of our peers and our peer groups (work, extracurricular activities, religious affiliations, etc.), and it is my observation that this is very much a driving force behind my generation. So some of the things which might be influencing your parents' thought processes on the subject are those peer related aspects: if your trying to understand your parents' stance on this better, it might be a good avenue to explore in regards to their peer network, especially those facets they hold in high esteem, and how those facets perceive Transgenders.

It was your job to communicate the news to your family? Was that a coordinated decision? Did both your daughter and you think it was easier that way?

I brought this up in conversation, and my daughter acquiesced. Again, it was my perceived way of protecting my child, as I was going to be the lightning rod for any backlash/ judgementalism from our family.

So, getting back to the Qs (no pun intended) and As:

Religion: how does your religion perceive Transgenders?

Since both of you seem to be relatively young and still establishing yourselves, where do you see yourselves in 5 years?

How did you decide on the names you wanted to be called after you transitioned?

My daughter has several adults she's seen as parental figures/ guiding influences while growing up, and they have been pretty neutral in response to my daughter transitioning. How have the parental figures/ guiding influences in your lives reacted to your transitioning?

Do you have acquaintances who are Transgender and who are still in high school, and if so do they see you as guiding lights/ beacons of hope that things will get better once they go to University? Reason I am asking this question is that in the Transparent meetings I attend there are a lot of discussions about the bigotry facing kids in high school who are Transgender, and I get the sense the parents' questions to me are in a roundabout way asking "please tell us things will get better".

D

 

[Hygro]

How do you feel about drag culture?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Western civilization is pretty much the only culture in which there is a gender binary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_systems

Well there's a small list of other cultures on that page, a lot of them small and/or tribal, but there's no mention of e.g., China, Russia, Islamic/Arabian culture, anywhere in Africa, Japan etc. Those are clearly not "western" by any standard definition of the term.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I honestly have no idea what the average murder rate for sex workers is, whether we're talking about trans or cis people.

You're on the internet. Google it. Nothing we're talking about here is a secret.

How do you feel about drag culture?

Ehhhhhhhhhhh. I don't really care about it, but I definitely understand trans people who feel mocked by it. Tbh I'm personally more annoyed by cis gay white men who claim to have an "inner Black woman" and simultaneously mock us (derisive sneers about t***ies are not uncommon) while hiding behind their identity as a shield for their male chauvinism. Like, we got your back and all against homophobic violence and persecution, but you gotta remember who takes the brunt of it: trans women.

Well there's a small list of other cultures on that page, a lot of them small and/or tribal, but there's no mention of e.g., China, Russia, Islamic/Arabian culture, anywhere in Africa, Japan etc. Those are clearly not "western" by any standard definition of the term.

I don't think that's really a small list, on the other hand it is also not an exhaustive one (here is a longer one, that oh look, took two seconds to Google and was the second hit: http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Gender-variant_identities_worldwide). Anyway, in the context of this discussion, yes they are Western in that they are dominated by the capitalist mode of production. The origin of gender binarism is pre-Christian, which is why much of the Muslim world close to Europe shares in it; however even there there are Third and Fourth Genders in some places.

Nonetheless the point is made: gender binarism is not a universal to be taken for granted, as there are clearly a plethora of human civilizations that do not abide by it.

 

[Hygro]

Ehhhhhhhhhhh. I don't really care about it, but I definitely understand trans people who feel mocked by it. Tbh I'm personally more annoyed by cis gay white men who claim to have an "inner Black woman" and simultaneously mock us (derisive sneers about t***ies are not uncommon) while hiding behind their identity as a shield for their male chauvinism. Like, we got your back and all against homophobic violence and persecution, but you gotta remember who takes the brunt of it: trans women.

Wait so you're a black woman?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Wait so you're a black woman?

lol no. Bad wording on my part. They mock trans women.

 

[dusters]

How much do you think transitioning is about fitting in the society versus being at peace with yourself versus "I want to be pretty" ?

How much make-up, if any, do you plan to use on daily basis? Do you plan to get any plastic surgeries?

Is being mtf affecting your job prospects?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

How much do you think transitioning is about fitting in the society versus being at peace with yourself versus "I want to be pretty" ?

Do you mean to ask how much trouble we go through to "pass" as our gender?

How much make-up, if any, do you plan to use on daily basis? Do you plan to get any plastic surgeries?

I've never used makeup, but once my friend teaches me how I might. I'm not a big colorful makeup person though, so if I did use it it would just be to highlight features and such. I don't plan on getting any surgery.

Is being mtf affecting your job prospects?

It would be preferable if you did not use the formula "male to female" or "female to male" as it implies that we have changed our gender; that we once were male but now are female. It's an outdated understanding of what being transgender means. The vast majority of us feel (although I cannot speak for everyone of course, but the point about nomenclature stands) that we were always this gender, and were simply playing the part forced upon us by society, according to the gender assigned to us at birth. Because of this, many in the transgender community prefer to use the terms AMAB and AFAB (Assigned Male/Female At Birth) to indicate that this transgender identity is in response to a decision made for us to which we could not consent and were never consulted. Our gender was assigned to us by someone else, based purely on the appearance of our genitalia. But the truth is that this was never our gender, and our self-actualization as male/female/nonbinary is rebellion against that imposition, to be who we really are.

Anyway, yes, being trans affects job prospects. There is little to no protection from discrimination against LGBTQIA people, especially in hiring/firing. Labor unions are making strides to win additions to their contracts that protect queer workers from discrimination and targeting, but only a minority of the workforce is organized, so most of us remain vulnerable. It's entirely up to the employer's whim, if they are tolerant or understanding then we might be okay, but if they are bigoted then we have no chance.

The same is true of other things like health care and housing. Discrimination and bigotry is very high against transgender people.

 

[Borachio]

I am very much cis, but I did read that trans-men frequently look younger than other men of the same age, because people with XX chromosomes tend to have faces that are less "craggy" than those with XY chromosomes.

Oh.

Well, yes, I suppose so.

But I thought the people transitioning and participating in this thread were trans-women.

I do apologize if I've made an unwarranted assumption.

 

[Terran Empress]

AMAB and AFAB (Assigned Male/Female At Birth)

I've also seen it as MAAB or FAAB (Male/Female assigned at Birth) - I was thinking this is more common but AMAB and AFAB work as well

Labor unions are making strides to win additions to their contracts that protect queer workers from discrimination and targeting, but only a minority of the workforce is organized, so most of us remain vulnerable.

yaaaaaaay for Neo liberal economics, taking wealth and rights from the workers and middle class and giving it to the rich since the 1970s :/

 

[Arakhor]

But I thought the people transitioning and participating in this thread were trans-women.

I do apologize if I've made an unwarranted assumption.

Well, I assume you're not and I'm definitely not, but I thought I'd share a relevant fact nonetheless.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I've also seen it as MAAB or FAAB (Male/Female assigned at Birth) - I was thinking this is more common but AMAB and AFAB work as well

Yeah there are a bunch (some people add a C for Coercively), but they all convey the same idea, and the idea is the point.

 

[emzie]

Religion: how does your religion perceive Transgenders?

I'm an atheist. I have been since I was 12 or 13. I became a lot less hostile towards religion after I started HRT.

Since both of you seem to be relatively young and still establishing yourselves, where do you see yourselves in 5 years?

Using my BSc or attending grad school. Neither of those things seemed remotely doable before I transitioned. I thought whatever was wrong with me was too much for me to be able to handle the world. Once I knew what to do about it, things got better.

How did you decide on the names you wanted to be called after you transitioned?

I ruled out the names of any relatives and friends. The first name that rang true for me was Emily. I mulled over some others and realized that I wanted three syllables. Nothing really felt as good as Emily. I think I can trace that to a song and a singer I like :X

My daughter has several adults she's seen as parental figures/ guiding influences while growing up, and they have been pretty neutral in response to my daughter transitioning. How have the parental figures/ guiding influences in your lives reacted to your transitioning?

My mother lives in Alabama. I'm in Ontario. My dad died in 2007. I adopted peers and some of the older transwomen in peer support group as role models.

I've really had no negative reactions yet, but I cut off my nutter family years in 2012 and have no intention of telling them.

Do you have acquaintances who are Transgender and who are still in high school, and if so do they see you as guiding lights/ beacons of hope that things will get better once they go to University? Reason I am asking this question is that in the Transparent meetings I attend there are a lot of discussions about the bigotry facing kids in high school who are Transgender, and I get the sense the parents' questions to me are in a roundabout way asking "please tell us things will get better".

It does get better.

I don't really interact with teenagers who identify as trans. I've tried to be, and it's just messy. I have myself to work on, and I can't spend 5 hours a week counseling someone. I flatout will not discuss sexual stuff with anyone under 18. I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing sex with teenagers in an objective way, but I do not want to get accused of something improper and merely being trans would make many people see that conversation as improper.

How do you feel about drag culture?

Don't give a damn. I'm friend with a transguy who does a drag preformance as a drag king. He's awesome at it.

I dislike how people assume drag culture is the same as trans, but that's on other's ignorance not on the drag performers.

How much do you think transitioning is about fitting in the society versus being at peace with yourself versus "I want to be pretty" ?

If your goal is to be pretty, you're likely to be disappointed. If you transition after puberty, there's some things that just cannot be undone and if you focus on being pretty, you will always be aware of things you can't change. Boat feet? Height? Voice? Manner of walking? Gestures? It's hard to be 100% deep stealth and it requires money, something not everyone has. So I don't care about being a pretty woman as much as just female in the eyes of strangers.

I do think I'm moderately cute though with an ass to kill for >.>

How much make-up, if any, do you plan to use on daily basis? Do you plan to get any plastic surgeries?

Foundation daily. Some mild eye shadow / liner. Some neutral lipstick. I go for a soft look.

Is being mtf affecting your job prospects?

Well, I had once wanted to be a biology teacher. That's not gonna happen. I think it'd be unhealthy to put myself in front of a classroom of teenagers.

 

[emzie]

Gonna go through this thread when I get home and pull out answers for a FAQ. If those who are participating in this thread would like, I'd also like to edit in a short introduction for each of you.

 

[Omega124]

I don't think there is, subconsciously/instinctively speaking, though specific religious or political beliefs can surely play a part. I'm not sure I can explain it any better, so I'll just leave it for now, by saying that I don't think you or any other transgender person did anything wrong, and I don't think Darsnan thought that about his daughter either.

Thanks for trying to help, at least.

I'm sorry if I appear rude, I have no intention of insulting you.

Seeing as how English isn't my native tongue, I suppose I should be a bit careful with my claims, but are you sure it isn't possible to append -ed to some adjectives? I thought I was using it correctly, and tried to look it up now as well:

From Dictionary.com, which is based on Random House Dictionary, it seems transgendered is a an alternative form?The usage note was also quite interesting, especially when compared to how you explained it earlier:My emphasis on the last part.

So, if I'm not completely lost here, using the form transgendered as an adjective seems correct. But if it does bother you, I'll try my best to write 'transgender person' for the rest of this thread.

No, the bold actually backs me up 100%. We, the actual transgender people, dislike it when people use trasgendered due to the connotations of the -ed suffix (which is mostly a verbal suffix anyways), and even some object to it being used as a noun (ex. The transgender walked into the store).

I guess you're right in that -ed can be used for adjectives, but they are used when to modify something in the past tense. For example, I was saying in my orgional response a certain racial slur that ends in -ed was antiquated at best, which made me realize it is grammatically ok to use -ed for certain contexts. However, none of these contexts include "transgendered", since the state of us being transgender is not time contextual. We always are transgender, at any given time. It's, again, why we don't say something is greened.

So, no, it's not really correct. It's a variant that's common enough to be included, but it's not a correct variant.

CNY.

Ah, the part that no one cares about

I've been to Syracuse a few times, most notably for a video game tournament. Very neat place. I think I might have went to Utica a few times as a kid for school stuff (tbh I don't remember the exact city) but I not sure if that counts as CNY or extreme edge of capital district.

No, I don't think you came across too harshly. However as far as trying to glean my thought processes and proscribe them to your parents, statistically speaking I don't think there is going to necessarily be a good correlation there.
My observations about society are that humans are very social animals, and we continually seek the acceptance of our peers and our peer groups (work, extracurricular activities, religious affiliations, etc.), and it is my observation that this is very much a driving force behind my generation. So some of the things which might be influencing your parents' thought processes on the subject are those peer related aspects: if your trying to understand your parents' stance on this better, it might be a good avenue to explore in regards to their peer network, especially those facets they hold in high esteem, and how those facets perceive Transgenders.

Yep, I think I already touched upon this earlier on the thread, but if I didn't, the first reaction my mom had when I came out was really "how do I explain you to the family?" She was... embarrased of me, which to be honest still really hurts. Makes me feel unloved, to be honest.

My extended family is big to my mother, and we are a catholic, Italian American family with no LGBT anything that I am aware of. If I were out as trans to them, I legimitlly might be the only LGBT member of my family at all. Considering how much LGBT peers I know (more so the first three letters than the fourth), it's kind of staggering to think.

Maybe one of my cousins are gay or lesbian and they're facing social pressure to shut up about it too? Never thought of it until now

So, getting back to the Qs (no pun intended) and As:

Religion: how does your religion perceive Transgenders?

As I said before, I don't have a religion; I'm an atheist. Instead of repeating myself from earlier, I'm going to change this question to "How does the religion I was raised in views me" so I can better awnser it.

Catholicism does not have good relations with LGBT people in general. Most of that energy is definitely invested towards homosexuality, which I do believe the church considers a more important issue than transgenderism (numbers being a big reason, also how marriage is so important in Catholicism and how the church believes it has a monopoly over how to define it; see how long it took before divorce became a legal right in many Catholic countries and iirc still isn't in the Phillipines).

That being said, Pope Francis, the supposed reformist pope, has said that transgender people pose the same risk to the world as nuclear weapons, and subsequently condemned us. I'd hate to hear what Benedict had to hear about us if he was still in power.

Now, I know as a large organization, not every catholic priest shares the same views as the pope (see: Liberation theology, which is almost Catholic communism). I'm so divorced from my local church that I honestly don't know their personal views on trans people are. I liked my priest on a personal level; he was actually a really nice guy and I think it would be out if character for him to be a transphobe? But I can't really say I know for certain.

Definitely screw the leaders of the church, however. Bunch of bigots they are.

Since both of you seem to be relatively young and still establishing yourselves, where do you see yourselves in 5 years?

See my last big post:

Is it bad that I don't? Because that's my awnser; I really don't. I have a hard time seeing myself in the future six months from now due to my present situation; decades down the road is unfathomable to me.

Decades isn't five but point still stands.

How did you decide on the names you wanted to be called after you transitioned?

I have already addressed that question here

That being said, I do have something to add since I initially wrote. I actually found a third name I really liked. It's a Japanese name, so I am pretty much certain I won't go with it (feels like cultural appropriation tbh), but I currently use it as my steam name because I think it's pretty and I love its etymology (actually more the latter. I seriously love it's meaning).

The name is &#38918;&#23376;, or in Romanji, Junko. The first character, Jun, means obedience, and the second, ko, literally means child but in practice is just the Japanese equilivent of -ette. So, in all, it means "obedient child" or "obedient girl" depending if you wat to take ko literally or not.

Yeah, as I said before, I have a huge submissive streak. A really, really huge one.

(Side note: Japanese names can have multiple etymologies depending on the kanji used, which is why I specified them. Not every girl with the name Junko uses that first kanji in particular. Any girls name with a ko ending is pretty much garunteed to be using the child kanji, however)

My daughter has several adults she's seen as parental figures/ guiding influences while growing up, and they have been pretty neutral in response to my daughter transitioning. How have the parental figures/ guiding influences in your lives reacted to your transitioning?

Parents? Terribly.

Anyone else? Probably don't know. Not in contact with most of them anymore. Some of my professors know, including my advisor, but I've known them for less than a year.

Do you have acquaintances who are Transgender and who are still in high school, and if so do they see you as guiding lights/ beacons of hope that things will get better once they go to University? Reason I am asking this question is that in the Transparent meetings I attend there are a lot of discussions about the bigotry facing kids in high school who are Transgender, and I get the sense the parents' questions to me are in a roundabout way asking "please tell us things will get better".

D

The only friend I know in the meatsphere who is trans, was in the same grade as me. That being said, I do think I was a big inspiration in getting her to come with terms with herself and becoming trans. After all, if I could try to transisition, this much less masculine looking person could too. Like I said, she can pass without HRT and just ugh >_>

How do you feel about drag culture?

In one word? Envious.

I envy that they can do the stuff I can only dream about, be more socially accepted for it (key word more), and never have to worry about passing. They can just be themselves, while I sit in my room silently moping about my own body.

That being said I know a certain friend on CFC does do drag and checks this thread frequently and I just want to say please take that the wrong way; it's more self loathing than anything else. You do what makes you happy.

How much do you think transitioning is about fitting in the society versus being at peace with yourself versus "I want to be pretty" ?

Can both be an acceptable awnser? Because both is really the correct awnser here.

I don't want to be seen as just a man as a dress. There's a lot of underlying reasons for my fear of that, some of it is the bad reaction society gives for trans women, but I can't deny I personally want to be attractive is not a huge reason in itself either. I do know the media pushes a desire for (unrealistic) attractiveness on women to sell products, but that doesn't mean I can't also want to be pretty myself, for myself.

How much make-up, if any, do you plan to use on daily basis? Do you plan to get any plastic surgeries?

Realistically, I will probably have to use a lot of make up to cover my facial hair alone. I was cursed with a really fast growing and dark beard, which seems to get worse and worse as time goes on. It kills me the most of anything in terms of dysphoria, and I was hoping I could get on hormones so it wouldn't grow as fast but

I do plan on getting facial feminization work done, as I have seen pictures of trans women who've gotten it done and you legitimately could never tell they were trans. It really does work, makes them look attractive, and probably younger too

As I said before, I don't really care about breasts as long as I have them. I'm probably too used to a flat chest to really want a big rack.

Is being mtf affecting your job prospects?

I'm unemployed even without being socially out so

Gonna go through this thread when I get home and pull out answers for a FAQ. If those who are participating in this thread would like, I'd also like to edit in a short introduction for each of you.

Cool beans. Can you tell me what you're looking for in terms of the introduction?