I agree with the first half, but representation can matter insofar as resonating with a particular audience. Much like Black Panther did by devoting time (and therefore accuracy) to things like clothing and the like. Or how CDPR did in developing the Witcher games (by basing their adaptation not specificaly on Poland, but a kind of archetype of cultural heritage throughout the greater region).
I think I covered this by pointing out I feel it's the casting that's important, and that depends on a bunch of stuff. Did it fit the story well? Do the characters make sense? Do the actors fit the roles and the story?
In both Black Panther and the Witcher the casting was done with existing material in mind that was being adapted for the big screen. As such it seems to me that the casting for both movies was successful to some degree, but I'm not super familiar with either franchise so I can't say how successful exactly. But the characters seem to fit the story at least and they do not look out of place in the settings presented on screen. So that seems like a success to me.
It does make sense to me that the sensibilities of the audiences need to be kept in mind as well, but don't you do that by casting actors that fit the characters? So if you are a superhero fan, and you go to watch Black Panther, you probably have a good idea in your head of what the casting is going to be like, as a fan of the franchise. If all white actors played the characters that would not have been faithful to the original comicbooks and fans would notice and probably complain about it. Same with the Witcher, if the characters and the mythology did not match up to the books and the games, the fans would complain.
Does that cover what we are both saying pretty much, or are my points leaving something out? I agree that if you are already targeting a movie at a specific ethnic group, then playing that up a bit also makes sense. And that might be something you are hinting at re: Black Panther. That seems separate from casting though
Ultimately things will be decided by the success of the product in question, but I feel like that's kind of working backwards. For example, what is a good casting decision? Is it something that results in the success of a movie, or is it something that can be identified in a single casting choice regardless of the quality of the movie?
How do we measure "good", here? This is a genuine question that I'm interested in hearing from you about. For me it's sometimes as simple as "did I like the movie". If I did, it's often because of the cast personally, moreso than the plot. I engage with the individual performances even as I appreciate whatever plot is being built (or not built, haha). That's just how I click with movies (and games, I think).
What makes a good casting decision? I feel that I am not really academically trained to put forth detailed ideas about this, but I can speculate. I'd have said the same thing if you asked what makes a good screenplay - I have thoughts and ideas, but in the end screenplay writing is probably much better analyzed by an English professor or... somebody who has experience writing screenplays I guess. I can imagine how writing a screenplay might go down, but there's probably all sorts of nuances I am not seeing, and all sorts of dimensions to the process that I am not appreciating. So yeah, I could say that you need a protagonist, a climax, a crisis, yadda yadda, but there's probably well understood dynamics here that can be much better summarized by an expert (and not me).
Having said that, this is not a prelude to me getting out of answering the question. I guess I've never really thought about it in much detail though. If an actor works very well for the role you can just.. feel it? They fill the shoes so well you just believe that they are the character and not an actor. Jean Luc Picard is totally believable as a character, but I don't really know if that's an example of good casting? He is supposed to be French and he speaks with a British accent. How to analyze that? You could make up a background story for uhh the Federation enslaving all French people or uhm something a bit more believable about Picard's family being somewhat mixed and maybe some sort of upbringing in some posh British school for the bald. I don't know. In the end in this case I don't think it matters. Picard just works so well and the actor is so good. It works very well for the story and I think that's the main thing for me. The accent thing was too minor to stand out too much in the end.
So I guess for me it's a "feeling". If a casting is off the character just feels.. clunky.. doesn't look right.. doesn't speak right.. doesn't interact with other characters right.. things feel off all over the place.
How much do ethnicity and gender matter here? IMO it depends on the story. If you are making a movie about medieval Poland it would probably be best to cast all white actors, although it would not be out of place to have some Mongolians there too perhaps, and you could probably easily get away casting somebody from the Middle east or what have you. In the end, if the actor is skillful enough, if the makeupwork and the costumework were put together by a competent crew, and if everything "feels" right, then it's good. If it doesn't feel right, then it's not
In most movies ethnicity doesn't really seem to matter. I mean, if you are making a movie about an African-American man in jail, then you probably shouldn't cast a white guy. That doesn't feel right at all and it doesn't make any sense. Both ethnicities would have a different experience in an American jail (and with the legal system) and that needs to come across in the character, otherwise the story falls apart.
But if you are making a sci-fi action movie like the Matrix, who the hell cares, cast the actors that best fit the characters and forget the ethnicity. I could be wrong but the screenplay does not make any such demands on any of the main characters. The uhh French douchebags in the sequels probably make the most sense being played by white actors, that's the only exception I can think of. I mean, they don't have to be really, but it just "feels" right to me. You could probably find a black French actor who can speak with that accent and play the role well enough as well though. So hey, I don't know. I'd have to see it and "feel" it.
I've written too much, probably. Characters are the most important part for any story to me though, they drive everything. For me everything else is secondary. The characters, their personalities, and the interactions between them, and the drama and other interactions that leads to..
That's the story. The spaceships, the giant worms, the space colonies.. that's all secondary. It's important to get right too, but if you don't have interesting characters & relationships between them, then the rest doesn't matter - your story sucks already. Sadly this is why I dislike the Mars trilogy. The characters are all copies of the same person and feel like cardboard cutouts. Yawn.
I'll wrap this up by mentioning Liet Kynes. When the casting was first announced, I was skeptical. I thought Fremen society wouldn't have allowed a woman to be in charge. That felt weird to me. It didn't "feel" right, but I wasn't really sure. I needed to see it.
When I saw this character in action, I was convinced. This Kynes felt more like Kynes than the one from the 1984 movie. It just "felt" right. So whatever DV saw in the actor to cast her for the role, I have no idea really cause I'm just a casual.. but whatever he saw and pounced on, and decided to make this slightly controversial change - it worked. I have no idea what sort of considerations he made and what the thought process was, but I assume he went through some sort of academic-like process, in part using his intuition and experience and so on, and we ended up with a very solid Kynes.
And that's the thing, I have no idea how to cast properly, I don't have the education or experience. I can only "feel" the final product and tell you what I think about it after. If it feels good I'll say it's good, but if it feels off I'll say it doesn't feel quite right, or bad, or horrible, or whatever.
We've had a thread here about some sort of historical show that was casting actors of the completely wrong ethnicity for a role. Now I'm not an expert on British history or whatever it was, but that "feels" wrong to me. I haven't watched it, but that's my first impression. I know a lot more about Polish history - and my perspective is that if Jan Sobieski III was played by Samuel L. Jackson it would be amazing, but it wouldn't feel right as a historical drama. As a comedy - sure why not.
Okay now I promise this is the end. Sorry for the essay
