Iraq war supporters: why not Burma?

[Till]

Well apparently you haven't been paying attention for a couple years.

This is the war against Islamic extremists. To try to separate Iraq/Afghanistan/Iran and even Palestine is to grossly misunderstand the situation. They are all linked at the hip.

For all the things Saddam was, an Islamic extremist he was not (nor was/is the Baath party).

 

[Princeps]

Why not Israel?

 

[Mercenary82]

Why not Israel?

Take your radical anti-semitism elsewhere, this is about whether the U.S. should attack Burma instead of Iraq. Isreal has nothing to do with that.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

The spin version of the reasons Iraq was top of the list was because it was/is thought that establishing a democracy in Iraq would have a "domino effect" with the citizens of other Middle East countries wanting to follow suit.

Iraq was also deemed to be a bigger threat to the security of the West.

IMHO, the real reasons lie between the following:

Burma wasn't in violation of 14 UN charters nor was it actively violating the agreed upon cease fire from an earlier war to liberate Kuwait.

America is not looking at it as "war against Iraq, war against Afghnistan, and the Iranian crisis." America realizes that these all are linked and fall under the same umbrella.

Burma is (to the United States) strategically unimportant.

In my view your test isn't a fair one anyway. I don't think that there are many who advocated the war who, before it's launch, believed that the only reason was to remove Saddam.

Even if the other reasons for attacking Iraq haven't panned out (which is open to debate as we have seen) it isn't fair to compare the intentions of Iraq War Hawks and possible Burma War Hawks.

 

[bigfatron]

I think this is credible enough.
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing3/witness_yaphe.htm

ROFLMFAO!!!
Have you read your own link?! The expert witness is testifying that Saddam was absolutely not a supporter of Islamist groups and that Osama BL and Saddam regarded each other as enemies.

Just a sample quote: 'I find troubling the use of circumstantial evidence and the corresponding lack of credible evidence to jump to extraordinary conclusions on Iraqi support for al-Qaida.'

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.....
BFR

If I have missed that you were trying to be ironic or to demonstrate the irrationality of linking Iraq and OBL, then I apologise for my obtuseness in not realising

 

[Princeps]

Take your radical anti-semitism elsewhere, this is about whether the U.S. should attack Burma instead of Iraq.

According to Skadistic, Iraq had violated 14 UN charters. I wonder how many hundreds of UN regulations Israel has violated.

Also, do not mock. I am not an anti-semite in the sense the word is erroneously used.

Isreal has nothing to do with that.

There are many things that Israel has to do with, especially in how US chooses the countries to invade.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

According to Skadistic, Iraq had violated 14 UN charters. I wonder how many hundreds of UN regulations Israel has violated.

Also, do not mock. I am not an anti-semite in the sense the word is erroneously used.

There are many things that Israel has to do with, especially in how US chooses the countries to invade.

But then Israel, for whatever reason, has never been subject to a UN Resolution either has it? That would make any force used against Israel illegal in International Law.

 

[Princeps]

But then Israel, for whatever reason, has never been subject to a UN Resolution either has it?

Yes, many times. It is currently in blantant violation of several UN resolutions and human rights violations are rampant in Israel.

Ironically enough, for those who claim, Israel is the bastion of democracy and human rights in ME, Israel's record of human rights violations is far greater than any of its neighbours.

 

[ShannonCT]

Pretty much the only reason I see cited any longer by Iraq war supporters is that Saddam Hussein was a superbad villain who killed his own people, and that spreading democracy to an oppressed people is a good thing.

Then you need to read people's posts more carefully. I won't repeat the other justifications already mentioned in this thread.

A "liberation" of Burma would have gone ten thousand times better than the invasion of Iraq did.

Doubtful. The American military isn't well equipped for jungle guerilla warfare.

Neither countries had or have weapons of mass destruction.

Iraq did.

So, why not Burma?

Maybe the UN should take on the job, but it will never happen. There are too many countries on the Security Council that care not about human rights violations or global security (China and Russia). As long as a undemocratic China holds veto power, military juntas will have nothing to fear from the UN.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

Yes, many times. It is currently in blantant violation of several UN resolutions and human rights violations are rampant in Israel.

I must have missed it, sorry. Which UNSC Resolution authorises sanctions or force against Israel?

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Iraq did.

I'm going to have to jump in there, cowboy. Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction prior to March 20, 2003. This is an agreed-upon fact.

 

[scipian]

Burma...
is inconvenient to attack (i.e., it would be hades trying to get troops to and in there)
is not strategically important
is in China's area of influence
is not a threat to our allies of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Israel
does not affect the global oil market
has not claimed to have WMDs
has not historically had WMDs
has shown no interest in obtaining WMDs
has not refused foreign investigation of said interest
has shown little to no interest in our affairs
has not had such a long history of refusing UN demands
it is inhabitable jungle (hard to fight in)
it is not Islamic and we are fighting Islamics
there has been no history of conflict.

These are off the top of my head. I'll look up some more.

 

[scipian]

Ironically enough, for those who claim, Israel is the bastion of democracy and human rights in ME, Israel's record of human rights violations is far greater than any of its neighbours.

Give proof. I didn't know that Israel purposely targeted civilians. I didn't know that Israel persecutes religiously, racially, politically, sectarianly (is this a word?) differing groups. I didn't know that Israel had purposely massacred thousands of civilians.

Israel has been engaged in a war very much like our war. They attempt to pull out and the Palestinians automatically engage in civil war or attack Israel. Considering the war they are fighting, they probably have the best civilian record ever. Fighting urban combat, with willing martyrs and civilians who want to die, they have done better than any other similar military. And they are FAR better than their neighbors in human rights.

 

[Bast]

I am not an anti-semite in the sense the word is erroneously used.

How is it erroneously used?

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Burma...
is inconvenient to attack (i.e., it would be hades trying to get troops to and in there)
is not strategically important
is in China's area of influence
is not a threat to our allies of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Israel
does not affect the global oil market
has not claimed to have WMDs
has not historically had WMDs
has shown no interest in obtaining WMDs
has not refused foreign investigation of said interest
has shown little to no interest in our affairs
has not had such a long history of refusing UN demands
it is inhabitable jungle (hard to fight in)
it is not Islamic and we are fighting Islamics
there has been no history of conflict.

These are off the top of my head. I'll look up some more.

But it is one of the world's worst violators of human rights, and to spread democracy, freedom, liberty, human rights, unicorns, and rainbows was supposedly the main reason for invading Iraq, or at least that's what pro-war pundits have been saying since we've found out what we already knew: Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, no connection to terrorism, and posed no threat to American interests.

Also, at least one of your reasons is blatantly incorrect: the UN held elections, which the NLD won over 80% of the vote in, and was promptly stripped of its assets, its prominent members including the PM-elect jailed, and election results ignored by the ruling junta. I'd say that's a pretty clear violation of UN will.

That said, from the second last reason you gave, I can see I'm not responding to the most rational person in the world.

 

[scipian]

We went to war for democracy and freedom? That's news to me. That is the stuff that you say in public. "We fight the Nazis to bring democracy and freedom." In both cases, that is a factor but a fairly small factor. The biggest factor is your own benefit.

No, my statement was not incorrect. I said "long history of refusing UN demands". Iraq has been doing this for many years many times. Burma has one case.

I disagree but I must go to school. carpool.

And I don't know that I'm the irrational one if you claim that Israel is worse than her neighbors.

 

[Princeps]

How is it erroneously used?

An anti-semite would mean "one that is against semitism" or opposes favouring semitic cultures above others... I think. Jews aren't the only semites either, Arabs and majority of Muslims are Semites as well, while not nearly all Jews are semites.

We went to war for democracy and freedom? That's news to me.

So it was a cynical and aggressive conquest.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

We went to war for democracy and freedom? That's news to me. That is the stuff that you say in public. "We fight the Nazis to bring democracy and freedom." In both cases, that is a factor but a fairly small factor. The biggest factor is your own benefit.

I'm not asking policymakers. I'm asking pro-war mouths, such as some that we have on this forum. You know, Bill O'Reilly/Sean Hannity type people.

No, my statement was not incorrect. I said "long history of refusing UN demands". Iraq has been doing this for many years many times. Burma has one case.

Almost twenty years ago. Where was Iraq in 1989? Still in the West's good books. Burma's been an international pariah much longer than Iraq has.

And I don't know that I'm the irrational one if you claim that Israel is worse than her neighbors.

You said that this is a war against Islam and its adherents, one of the few people with the balls to actually say what they're thinking.

 

[Bast]

An anti-semite would mean "one that is against semitism" or opposes favouring semitic cultures above others... I think. Jews are the only semites either, Arabs and majority of Muslims are Semites as well, while not nearly all Jews are semites.

Anti-semitic

Theory, action, or practice directed against the Jews. Hence anti-{sm}Semite, one who is hostile or opposed to the Jews; anti-Se{sm}mitic a.

Source: Oxford English Dictionary

In any case, what is your point? That you're not anti-semitic because you like arabs rather than you don't dislike jews?

What's with all the obsession with semantics? Are you doing it so you can still hate whilst detaching yourself from the "anti-semitic" label? Is that the agenda?

Also, please educate yourself with the real meanings of words such as above. If you can't be bothered, please use another language.

 

[skadistic]

An anti-semite would mean "one that is against semitism" or opposes favouring semitic cultures above others... I think. Jews are the only semites either, Arabs and majority of Muslims are Semites as well, while not nearly all Jews are semites.



So it was a cynical and aggressive conquest.

Right so instead of antisemite you'd rather be called what you are, A jew hater.

Tell me oh haters of jews (and before you say you hate Israelis and not jews, your persistant ranting of the evil jews and the way the theocracy of Isreal treats the non-jew Israelis so horribly shows its just the jews in Israel you hate) Have the pallies commited any human rights violations? Of all those UN resolutions against Israel ( you should realy post then for all to see) how many are actionable? How many are the UN saying "we don't like you"? How many can actualy be violated the way they are writen? How many are nothing but condemnations?

Do us all a favoure and open another thread to answewr those questions.

In the mean time lets get back to Burma.