Is a hamburger a sandwich?

[Gori the Grey]

Just as one ought not just switch “which” and “witch,”
So too, that thing in your hand, which
Has meat between bread,
If the meat’s beef’s instead
A hamburger and not a sandwich.

 

[Lohrenswald]

I'm with Owen on this Schawambla thing being a wrap rather than a sandwich
Which of course means that sausages are wraps as well:

Spoiler :

 

[warpus]

There was once a sandwich,
which after some drinking made the switch,
Two sesame seed buns,
spherical like two suns,
"I ain't no sandwich no mo'" said the @%*!ch

 

[warpus]

I'm with Owen on this Schawambla thing being a wrap rather than a sandwich

Shawarmas aren't popular where you are? They are super tasty! Best thing to be wrapped up, ever.

Mind you I don't think they're sandwiches either, but technically they appear to be sandwiches. And I don't consider hamburgers to be sandwiches either - but technically they appear to be sandwiches.

 

[Lohrenswald]

I've only heard about wraps, is the thing.

It might be different in Oslo and the Westland, for all I know

But I'ma tell you: don't eat sandwiches, that's just silly.

 

[classical_hero]

I am with Warpus on this one. I believe it's like calling a cat a dog, because they both walk on four legs and have a tail. Hamburgers and sandwiches are similar but different enough to be separate.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So for breakfast I had a hot pastrami sandwich from the local Tom's Burger. Served hot, on a sort of a roll thing that is more like a bun (just elongated) than it is like sliced bread. Also on their menu is the Colossal Burger, which is a hamburger with a pile of the same hot pastrami on it. Slight differences in the vegetation, and the one has a patty of additional meat, but these two things seem very similar overall, so calling one a sandwich and claiming that the other is not would be pretty strange to me.

 

[Sommerswerd]

For lunch I had a wrap with grilled chicken grilled onion and green pepper, mushrooms and lettuce. I really wanted a schwarma, but they didn't have lamb... so I had the guy improvise. I'm pretty open about what qualifies as a sandwich. If it has bread around it, then it pretty much qualifies.

 

[schlaufuchs]

I am with Warpus on this one. I believe it's like calling a cat a dog, because they both walk on four legs and have a tail. Hamburgers and sandwiches are similar but different enough to be separate.

Why? What specifically about a hamburger makes it not a sandwich?

With cats you can point to: tail, ear shape, dental arrangement, claws, fur, facial structure. All of these things make cats decidedly not dogs. So what about a hamburger is not sandwich-like?

 

[warpus]

It's convention. It's different in different places.

Technically speaking a tomato is a fruit, but you can for some reason only ever find it in the vegetable aisle..

 

[Borachio]

Why? What specifically about a hamburger makes it not a sandwich?

With cats you can point to: tail, ear shape, dental arrangement, claws, fur, facial structure. All of these things make cats decidedly not dogs. So what about a hamburger is not sandwich-like?

Burgers are inevitably in a bun, not two slices of bread.

Think of a burger in fact made with two slices of bread. Is it a burger? Is it really a burger? Could Macdonald's sell you one?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It's convention. It's different in different places.

Technically speaking a tomato is a fruit, but you can for some reason only ever find it in the vegetable aisle..

Grocery stores operate by culinary definition rather than botanical definition, expecting more of their customers to be cooks than botanists.

 

[Borachio]

Cucumbers are fruit as well.

But what are onions? Fruit or vegetable? Hmm.

I think fruits are all vegetables.

 

[Traitorfish]

Why? What specifically about a hamburger makes it not a sandwich?

With cats you can point to: tail, ear shape, dental arrangement, claws, fur, facial structure. All of these things make cats decidedly not dogs. So what about a hamburger is not sandwich-like?

Perhaps a better analogy is "calling a human an ape": empirically true, but likely to make Classical Hero uncomfortable.

Burgers are inevitably in a bun, not two slices of bread.

Think of a burger in fact made with two slices of bread. Is it a burger? Is it really a burger? Could Macdonald's sell you one?

That's a peculiarly British thing, I think, using "sandwich" to refer specifically to something between two slices from a loaf. Americans use it in a broader sense to describe anything between sliced bread, so a filled sub roll is a "sandwich", in which context it doesn't make sense to exclude hamburgers other than a intuitive sense that it doesn't fit.

That said, I do wonder exactly how the slicing of the bread decides the sandwich-ness. A hot dog is not a sandwich, because the bread is merely opened and filled; if we cut the bun all the way through, does it then becomes a sandwich? It makes sense insofar as it better describes how the food is prepared and eaten, where the British conventions seems arbitrarily hung up on the original shape of the bread, but the details seems to fray around the edges.

 

[warpus]

Grocery stores operate by culinary definition rather than botanical definition, expecting more of their customers to be cooks than botanists.

But how did the tomato become a culinary vegetable, when it's a fruit? Well, it doesn't matter, right? What matters is that that is now the convention, which is what I was driving at - some people will call a burger a sandwich, and others won't, no matter what the "proper" definition is.

 

[Borachio]

I think it's something to do with the low sugar content.

When they first brought the tomato to Europe people were very reluctant to eat it at all. It's related to deadly nightshade after all.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Cucumbers are fruit as well.

But what are onions? Fruit or vegetable? Hmm.

I think fruits are all vegetables.

Fruit have seeds. I think that's the difference.

 

[Borachio]

Ah. So pine cones are fruit. Yummy.

And ears of wheat. And maize.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But how did the tomato become a culinary vegetable, when it's a fruit? Well, it doesn't matter, right? What matters is that that is now the convention, which is what I was driving at - some people will call a burger a sandwich, and others won't, no matter what the "proper" definition is.

The culinary definition of 'fruit' derives from usage. Fruit is used to provide sweetness, and things that are savory like a mushroom or acidic like a tomato are therefore not fruit by the culinary definition...while the stem of a rhubarb or sugar plant which a botanist would certainly say has absolutely no relationship to fruit is in fact a fruit by culinary definitions.

So you're right that there is convention at work, but in the case of sandwiches I can't find the origins of the convention. It seems to be geographical, with North Americans generally having a much broader application for it than Europeans. The 'bread must be slices' or 'must be served cold' and other stipulations are certainly not familiar to me.

 

[Borachio]

There's no reason not to have a toasted sandwich. Plenty of people do. Though I'm not a fan.

But if you ask for a sandwich in a pub in the UK, you're going to get, and would expect two slices of bread with stuff between them.

Anything else is what it is. Like a bap, or baguette. Or a wrap.