Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Flying Pig]

I wonder how much a 5% cut in corporation tax will cost the tax payers, bearing in mind that even if the magical millions do eventually materialise from leaving the EU, that's not going to be for months on end at the very least.

Is there not an argument to be made similar to the one that goes through the landlord's mind when he calls happy hour? You can cut the price of beer or lower taxes, and yet still take in more money, if that price/tax change causes more beer to be drunk or more business to be done.

 

[Arakhor]

Is there not an argument to be made similar to the one that goes through the landlord's mind when he calls happy hour? You can cut the price of beer or lower taxes, and yet still take in more money, if that price/tax change causes more beer to be drunk or more business to be done.

Well, given that the tax drop was announced in response to (at least partially) justified fears that companies would abandon the UK if it leaves the EU, I'd imagine that it's more akin to a landlord throwing out half his customers and then declaring happy hour because he realises that takings will be low.

 

[Snerk]

Low tax rates is less of an incentive for companies these days anyhow. Stable markets and a competent environment for business is currently much higher prized. A race to the bottom where UK tries to emulate Guernsey or something will not result in a net profit for Brits in any scenario.

 

[Arakhor]

The Tories are the party of big business, don't you know?

 

[Akka]

Oh, our suspicions are proven right once again.

Is it believable or is it just PR crap ?
I'm not familiar enough with british politician to really know, but it sounds pretty dubious and more a cop-out to me.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Low tax rates is less of an incentive for companies these days anyhow. Stable markets and a competent environment for business is currently much higher prized. A race to the bottom where UK tries to emulate Guernsey or something will not result in a net profit for Brits in any scenario.

I agree.


George Osborne's statements are interesting:

Before the Vote: If you vote Leave; there will be tax increases

After the Vote: Now you have voted Leave, there will be tax decreases.

If it is not actually lying; it is hardly consistent behaviour from a Remain supporter.


More generally, I recollect:

Before the Vote: If you vote, Leave; there will be interest rate rises.

After the Vote: Now you have voted Leave, there is talk about cutting the bank rate.

 

[EnglishEdward]

EU had nothing to do with Yugoslavia, you're just witnessing the rabid buffoons of the forums trying to grasp at straws to find reason to blame it.
They were the same clowns who celebrated the UK's vote as "a country liberating itself from the yoke of the EU" before quieting down when it became more apparent that what they accused the EU of, was actually stemming from the UK (making all their celebration and rhetoric of liberation look increasingly stupid and ignorant).

Well now I suppose 'buffoons', 'clowns', 'stupid', 'ignorant'
is a change from Remain accusations of 'xenophobic' and 'racist'.

You are not debating, you are merely insulting.

 

[Arakhor]

Before the Vote: If you vote Leave; there will be tax increases
After the Vote: Now you have voted Leave, there will be tax decreases.

If it is not actually lying; it is hardly consistent behaviour from a Remain supporter.

Not that I'm defending him in the slightest, but I can see the reasoning (however shady) behind this move. What's more, if he implements the corporation tax cuts, what are the chances that normal tax payers will have to find the difference?

Besides, what has whether he supported Remain or not got to do with anything? Do we even need to even go near the comprehensive backsliding on Leave pledges so far?

 

[bathsheba666]

I agree.


George Osborne's statements are interesting:

Before the Vote: If you vote Leave; there will be tax increases

After the Vote: Now you have voted Leave, there will be tax decreases.

If it is not actually lying; it is hardly consistent behaviour from a Remain supporter.


More generally, I recollect:

Before the Vote: If you vote, Leave; there will be interest rate rises.

After the Vote: Now you have voted Leave, there is talk about cutting the bank rate.

Easily explainable.

Vote leave = economy borked (happening, but denied by vote leave, of course )

Economy is borked, but the increased tax costs and reduced spending are being postponed until new PM is in place - they have not gone away.

In the meantime, Tories will use excuse of collapsing business confidence (happening, but denied by vote leave, of course ) to throw tax cuts at business, meaning the poor are going to be even more screwed than before, and rich contributing even less to economy. Thus keeping Tories happy and in character.

 

[bathsheba666]

Panorama tonight had 'normal' people explaining their leave vote.

Old dears explaining how they hope to see industry back in the UK after the foreigners have gone and we've got our country back.

So, the old mantra seems to be working for the uneducated or unaware: - it's foreigners to blame, nothing wrong with Tory pro business anti regulation policies. Get rid of Ronny Rumanian and the shires will be great again.



Reminds me of an earlyish Question Time in this parliament where a self employed single mother had just found out she would be unable to cope with new benefit rules; and was in tears because the tories - no less - had let her down.
Honestly, who would have imagined they could be so heartless and dismissive of their election promises.

 

[Takhisis]

luiz, you seem to be confusing the party with the parliamentary party.

I wonder how much a 5% cut in corporation tax will cost the tax payers, bearing in mind that even if the magical millions do eventually materialise from leaving the EU, that's not going to be for months on end at the very least.

Well, we shall just have to cut expenditure by 5% or an amount equal to whatever those tax cuts cost the Treasury, whichever is largest, shan't we?

 

[Old Hippy]

luiz, you seem to be confusing the party with the parliamentary party.

Well, we shall just have to cut expenditure by 5% or an amount equal to whatever those tax cuts cost the Treasury, whichever is largest, shan't we?

or use the 350 million a week saving to pay for foreign Corporations to have their tax cut, bad luck NHS

 

[FriendlyFire]

More generally, I recollect:
Before the Vote: If you vote, Leave; there will be interest rate rises. to deal with Brexit depression
After the Vote: Now you have voted Leave, there is talk about cutting the bank rate to deal with Brexit depression.

Fixed

The experts suggest UK remove Vat taxes instead, because reducing corporate tax rates will only result in the EU retaliating and imposing taxes on those corporations sheltering in the UK that do business in the EU
The focus seems less on carrying out the Leave promises and now more on stopping UK plummeting into a severe recession

OECD says tax haven route won't work for UK

The idea the country may cut tax on multinational companies' profits, which could also help them avoid tax on profits made elsewhere in the EU, has been raised by some accountants and policy experts since the country voted to leave the bloc.

"The negative impact of the Brexit on UK competitiveness may push the UK to be even more aggressive in its tax offer," the OECD's head of tax, Pascal Saint-Amans said in the memo, details of which were seen by Reuters.
"A further step in that direction would really turn the UK into a tax haven type of economy," he said, adding that there were practical and domestic political barriers to doing this.
To significantly improve its appeal to businesses, the UK would need to significantly cut its tax rate or introduce a system of "generous" tax rulings, the OECD said.
Outside the EU, the UK could selectively offer foreign investors one-off tax deals - something prohibited by EU law.

if the UK did try to offer tax rulings or introduce tax incentives that were contrary to the EU's rules against unfair tax competition between members, it could actually put companies off due to worries about retaliation.

"It might now consider reviewing its domestic rules to remove the VAT burden on its financial services industry, which would create a major competitive advantage for the City compared to other financial centres in the EU," it said.
Otherwise, leaving the EU will bring new VAT compliance burdens and costs that "will add to the competitive disadvantages for UK businesses trading with the EU compared to their EU competitors," the VAT memo said.
Unlike the Saint-Amans memo, it did not assess the likelihood of outcomes, but merely discussed the possibilities. It was not clear who the author was.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...n-route-wont-work-for-uk-20160703-gpxr4f.html

Last week the chancellor dropped his target of a 2020 budget surplus, as the Treasury focus shifted away from austerity to policies to stop the shock of Brexit turning into a severe recession.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d5aedda0-412e-11e6-9b66-0712b3873ae1.html#axzz4DUrfxLVr

 

[luiz]

luiz, you seem to be confusing the party with the parliamentary party.

I understand the difference. But apparently the Corbynistas don't understand the difference between the millions of Labor supporters and the small group of civil servants and college kids that don't have to work and therefore can spend a lot of time doing party politics.

Again, Corbyn had 200k votes. Labor had more than 9 million. He does not have a mandate to be the czar of the labor party. If 75% of elected labor MP's tell him he must go, than go he must.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

George Osborne's statements are interesting:

Before the Vote: If you vote Leave; there will be tax increases

After the Vote: Now you have voted Leave, there will be tax decreases.

If it is not actually lying; it is hardly consistent behaviour from a Remain supporter.

It's not lying, you're just ignoring context. A few days after the Brexit vote Osborne announced tax increases and spending cuts.
Corporate taxes are going down, your taxes are still going up.
No contradiction there.

 

[Akka]

Well now I suppose 'buffoons', 'clowns', 'stupid', 'ignorant'
is a change from Remain accusations of 'xenophobic' and 'racist'.

You are not debating, you are merely insulting.

No, I'm calling a number of people who used a specific set of false arguments and repeated it for years despite being called on it, as a bunch of stupid clowns.

People who voted on Leave can have totally justifiable reasons, but people who just repeated the same disproved garbage because it was their pet peeve to blame the EU for anything regardless of facts, are clearly not in the same category.

 

[Arwon]

So which parties emerged from the Brexit vote with their leadership intact? The SNP and LibDems?

Well, presumably the leader of the Greens hadn't been rolled ahead of next month's leadership election for which she isn't standing.

 

[Arwon]

One of my favourite statistics is that the RSPB has more members (c.1 million) than all British political parties combined - including Labour (c.450,000), the Tories (c.150,000), the Lib Dems (c.72,000), the Greens (c.60,000) and UKIP (c.47,000).

I think any Australian party would kill for those kind of numbers. We've got about half the population of England and our two big parties have about 40-50k people and the Greens about 10k.

On the other hand nearly a million Australians are members of Australian Rules Football clubs, so there's that.

 

[Traitorfish]

I understand the difference. But apparently the Corbynistas don't understand the difference between the millions of Labor supporters and the small group of civil servants and college kids that don't have to work and therefore can spend a lot of time doing party politics.

Again, Corbyn had 200k votes. Labor had more than 9 million. He does not have a mandate to be the czar of the labor party. If 75% of elected labor MP's tell him he must go, than go he must.

Why do you imagine that the selection process which allowed these MPs to take these seats- in some cases, all but appointed them to parliament- are is more representative of the Labour-voting electorate? This isn't the United States, we don't hold primaries: these people were put forward as candidates by the same "civil servants and college kids" who you regard as incapable of electing a party leader.

If you're really worried about red-ribboned gangsterism, your concern should be the hundred-odd rotten boroughs that form the backbone of Labour's parliamentary presence, not a man who won his position in an open national contest.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

Old dears explaining how they hope to see industry back in the UK after the foreigners have gone and we've got our country back.

I've actually heard it said that with the money saved from not being in the EU the money could be used to buy back all the British brands sold to foreign companies to put them back in British hands.