Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Arakhor]

1000 people is statistically insignificant compared to the UK electorate, I quite agree. As for very much information during the campaign, no, there wasn't a vast amount. Most of the reporting was done on what the campaigns were saying, rather than anything else.

 

[Old Hippy]

damned if you do, damned if you don't, then

And you don't think people got much information on those things from television and newspapers, both during and after the campaigning?

There's some serious grasping at straws here
and yet I am the ignorant one

no, not at all, you took the trouble to check up what the newspapers and TV meant when the said about the google searches the day after, the puts you in the smart group

 

[FriendlyFire]

EU should jettison Greece the troubled black sheep
Not only would this make it much harder for refugees to reach Europe
It would stop complaints about EU euromonies mismanagement vanishing into a blackhole

Better for UK a net contributor to stay
Then Greece a net beneficiary to stay

Greece May Face Aid-Payout Delay as EU Warns on Backsliding

Greece’s finance chief said the next international aid payout to the country may be delayed as the European Union stepped up warnings about domestic political meddling in the Greek state.

Finance Minister Euclid Tsakalotos raised the possibility of the government in Athens failing to qualify on time for a 2.8 billion-euro ($3.1 billion) disbursement due in September from the euro area. That’s what remains of a 10.3 billion-euro tranche that finance ministers approved in principle three months ago.

Slipping timetables have been a regular feature of loan payouts to Greece since it first turned to the euro area and the International Monetary Fund for a rescue in 2010. Now in it’s third bailout, the country faces continued creditor warnings about backsliding on overhauls that are a condition for aid.

Alexis Tsipras risks undermining the credibility of Greek fiscal data.

“The commission has long urged the implementation of the pillar of the program related to the modernization of the Greek state and public administration,”

The political controversy centers on Andreas Georgiou, who faces felony charges in Greece for reporting a 2009 budget deficit that was more than five times the EU limit and that unleashed the euro-area debt crisis. The EU has vouched for data submitted by the Hellenic Statistical Authority under Georgiou from 2010 to 2015 and validated by EU statistics office Eurostat.

The Greek government has committed to “upholding confidence in Greek statistics and defending them against any efforts to undermine their credibility,” according to an agreement in June between Athens and its international budget auditors
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-aid-payout-delay-as-eu-warns-on-backsliding

 

[Verbose]

EU should jettison Greece the troubled black sheep
Not only would this make it much harder for refugees to reach Europe
It would stop complaints about EU euromonies mismanagement vanishing into a blackhole

OK... And then which member state(s) should start looking over their shoulder in expectation of getting the ax next?

It would set a very bad precedent.

 

[REDY]

It would be a precedent but good one

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

It would be a precedent but good one

If you are looking for a really good precedent related to the Greek problem then the Greek debt should have never been transcribed from the private corporations

 

[Verbose]

It would be a precedent but good one

So what would it do, d'ye think?

 

[Verbose]

If you are looking for a really good precedent related to the Greek problem then the Greek debt should have never been transcribed from the private corporations

All the money that went to Greece should have gone to nationalise the bust German and French banks, and then quietly restructure the salvegeable ones, to be sold at profit to recoup the tax-payers losses, and dismantle the rubbish ones. Excellent, eventually, for the Germans and the French certainly.

With the caveat that this only COULD only have been done at the point where the risk of contagion from a Eurozone "Grexit" could be managed. So Greece would initially have to be bailed out like was done regardless. THEN Greece would have been made to default on its debts, and leave the Euro, at which point Germany and France should have large enough war-chests to 1) take over the bad debt of their banks, and 2) hinder things from spreading to Italy and getting out of hand.

That probably should have been done. It would have been short-term hell-to-pay for Greece, but then reasonable prospects of an upturn, not back to where it was, but something at least. And the bank-salvaging things HAS been done elsewhere, if in smaller scale (Sweden, Canada?).

 

[SMcM]

Better for UK a net contributor to stay
Then Greece a net beneficiary to stay

What is most ironic is that it is the EU's desire for expansion that has caused this reduction.

EU gains Poland, a net beneficiary
EU loses UK, a net contributor

I have nothing against the Polish people, but it was the introduction of Poland, resulting in mass immigration from Poland to the UK that the British government could not halt, that has pushed the UK out of the EU; it was this that was used as perhaps the most major point for the Brexit campaign- 'we want our borders back' type rhetoric. Without the 'now over a million polish immigrants' statistic, Brexit would have seemed to have had a lot ammunition.

Yes, immigrants are needed to fill jobs we won't do, but this doesn't seem to bother most people, who falsely claim there are plenty of willing locals to do these jobs.

 

[Takhisis]

The UK could not halt?

 

[FriendlyFire]

The UK could not halt?

Well it was Stalins breaking of the Yalta agreement that prevent large numbers of Poles from returning. Then of course the UK decided it would welcome more poles for some reason, I assume the EU made the UK do this ?
Polish economy is doing fine, unlike Greece which is the worst in the entire EU.

In 2004, when Poland joined the European Union and Britain became one of the few countries to open its borders to Polish migrants

At the time, Britain required more labour to boost the economy, and Poles – numerous, determined, hard-working, and (let’s be honest) cheap – provided this.

Make no mistake, Poland has changed enormously since 2004 – becoming one of the most successful economies in Europe

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...to-stay-here-for-ever-until-the-eu-referendum

Churchill !
What a stupid git !

When the war ended, Churchill vowed that the British would “never forget the debt they owe to the Polish” and pledged “citizenship and freedom of the British empire” for all.

 

[Takhisis]

Yes, yes, but immigrints are being forced on the UK by the evil Eurocrats.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Yes, yes, but immigrints are being forced on the UK by the evil Eurocrats.

How dare the EU forced the UK to make its own immigration laws
The irony of it all considering what the rest of the EU did.

Almost every other EU state, apart from Ireland and Sweden, prevented migrants from working for the seven years permitted.

"Other existing EU members, notably France and Germany, decided to stick to the general rule which prevented migrants from these new states from working until 2011.

But we thought that it would be good for Britain if these folk could come and work here from 2004.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...mistake-on-immigration-admits-Jack-Straw.html

 

[EnglishEdward]

I cannot see the UK renouncing to passporting rights for financial services. The economical cost of such a power shift would be too unpredictable. If really put under pressure, I'm even convinced Theresa May would accept to keep freedom of movement if that would ensure her to keep the passporting rights.

This is a very interesting critical path point.

It effectively puts the interest of the non metropolitan working class competing against immigrants who voted to Leave against the interests of the City of London.


I attach a useful link to passporting rights.

http://www.eu-facts.org.uk/argument...-from-losing-passporting-rights-after-brexit/

The more I think about it, the more I believe negociations will be long and unproductive. The article 5 won't be triggered before december, but then there's a presidential election in France in may 2017 and a federal election in october 2017 in Germany. Granted in the German case, Merkel is favorite though.

This is my opinion too.

I regard passporting rights as supporting tax avoidance and thereby causing budget deficits. The EU ruling on Apple and Ireland, while nominally about state support, is indicative. A compromise whereby UK companies could continue to create and own companies legally established in other EU member states to provide financial services within the EU would be more sensible. Such subsidiary companies would need to prepare meaningful accounts and be compliant with the EU regulations and pay taxes on profits to the EU or EU member state. After all the French and Germans government corporates own power, rail, sewage and water companies in the UK.

 

[JohannaK]

What is most ironic is that it is the EU's desire for expansion that has caused this reduction.

EU gains Poland, a net beneficiary
EU loses UK, a net contributor

I have nothing against the Polish people, but it was the introduction of Poland, resulting in mass immigration from Poland to the UK that the British government could not halt, that has pushed the UK out of the EU; it was this that was used as perhaps the most major point for the Brexit campaign- 'we want our borders back' type rhetoric. Without the 'now over a million polish immigrants' statistic, Brexit would have seemed to have had a lot ammunition.

Yes, immigrants are needed to fill jobs we won't do, but this doesn't seem to bother most people, who falsely claim there are plenty of willing locals to do these jobs.

Yet, as people have repeatedly pointed out before and since, it was the UK who pushed harder for the ampliation and then immediately allowed Polish immigration. No doubt if everyone had done the same, there would be less Poles in Britsin, but this cannot hide that it is the UK's own fault.

 

[Arakhor]

We invited over the Indians, Pakistanis and various Caribbean natives after the war and then, 15-20 years later, we started panicking and tried to remove a bunch of citizenships from the resulting population. I'm not sure when Polish immigration started, but we were actively involved in it, of course.

 

[really]

The message from yesterday's cabinet meeting in the UK seems to be that controlling immigration is the most important thing for her government.

 

[bathsheba666]

As the Labour party is currently no kind of threat to her she can afford to concentrate on neutralising her main and only enemies - the tory right wing.

And, screw the country, as usual...

 

[Lohrenswald]

As the Labour party is currently no kind of threat to her she can afford to concentrate on neutralising her main and only enemies - the tory right wing.

And, screw the country, as usual...

you seem to imply there is such a thing as the tory left wing

 

[Tahuti]

Yes, yes, but immigrints are being forced on the UK by the evil Eurocrats.

Why don't you support the Europublicans?