Is Britain about to leave the EU?

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It's less a question of pomp and more of self-image. Ireland and Scotland have been peripheral to the English imagination for, really, the whole history of the Union; why would that change just because we leave?

The English accepted the change in styles that accompanied the Union because of it implied a great enough enhancement of prestige and influence to overcome the inertia of tradition, especially given that, at that time, the Cross wasn't deeply embedded in English traditions, and indeed the whole idea of national flags or even of nation-states was still a novelty; the state and the trappings of state were still conceptually attached to the person of the monarch, and the monarch wasn't changed in 1707 or 1800, just made grander and more glorious. Today, there's no prestige to be found in altering the paraphernalia of state in deference to Celtic secession, and the sort of paraphernalia that the English once wore rather lightly now carries centuries of tradition and familiarity. To accept a reduced flag or name would be to accept reduced national prestige, and for what reason, to flatter a few mad Picts? That's a hard case to make.

If Northern Ireland and Scotland go their own way, it would make no sense to retain a union flag then inappropriately incorporating their flags.
If you think we English would want to do so for reasons of prestige you misunderstand us. I can even argue that the process of the English abandoning
the Union Jack is already well away. Indeed when one drives about England these days, there are plenty of St George's and not many Union Jacks at all.

My only reticence, is that I would have to find a different avatar for this forum.
 
If Northern Ireland and Scotland go their own way, it would make no sense to retain a union flag then inappropriately incorporating their flags.
If you think we English would want to do so for reasons of prestige you misunderstand us. I can even argue that the process of the English abandoning
the Union Jack is already well away. Indeed when one drives about England these days, there are plenty of St George's and not many Union Jacks at all.
Possibly, but the English flag is not generally regarded as a flag of state; it's primarily associated with sports and, recently, unfortunately, with the far-right. (It's actually striking how rarely the English flag is flown in an official context; meanwhile, the Scottish and Welsh flags are flown from every council sub-office with a flagpole.) It's also not particularly well-loved in Wales, which doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
 
We can get you a new avatar with an English flag, Edward.
 
If Scotland, N.Ireland and Wales go independent then England should call itself the Quasi-United-Anglican-Kingdom.(Q.U.A.K.)
 
But what if Cornwall and the Channel Islands secede?
 
Then they'd have to go with Formerly United Kingdom.(F.U.K.)
 
Then they should imitate their American overlords and call themselves "Britain"
 
North British was apparently what 18th c. Unionist Scots would call themselves.
 
May says there shouldn't be a referendum for independence in Scotland.
"My message is very clear. Now is not the time. I've explained the reasons why.
"We should be working to get the right deal for Scotland and the UK with our future partnership with the European Union.
"It would be unfair to the people of Scotland at the moment that they would be being asked to make a crucial decision without the information they need to make that decision."​
The irony is so delicious.
 
I think that if there is a ref in Scotland soon-ish, it likely will vote to leave. Hm. I will have to check on new citizenship rules in an independent Scotland. You should too, Takhi :)
 
It wasn't blocked in the upper house?
They proposed amendments to it. In the early 20th century the Commons forced the Lords to accept a piece of legislation that forbids the Lords from completely blocking legislation (they can propose amendments to which the Commons agree, or refuse it for up to three years, depending on the type of bill), and also prohibited budget bills from originating in the upper house. This was achieved mostly because the King threatened to simply give titles to as many people as necessary to change the vote in the House, as His Majesty sided with the Commons over the budget (at that point, many ‘Commons’ were actually title-less landwoners and many Lords actually were industrialists or merchants, so the old distinctions of internationalist traders v. protectionist landowners didn't apply anymore).
 
It wasn't blocked in the upper house?
Despite being so numerous the upper house is relatively powerless - the commons can force stuff through.

The Lords (mostly conservative landowners ) were stripped of power to stop laws originally to push through a land tax and Irish home rule, neither of which happened.
 
It really annoyed me how much he kept fiddling with his glasses.
But glasses are fun to fiddle with. So much better than fiddling with ties.:mischief:
 
May says there shouldn't be a referendum for independence in Scotland.
"My message is very clear. Now is not the time. I've explained the reasons why.
"We should be working to get the right deal for Scotland and the UK with our future partnership with the European Union.
"It would be unfair to the people of Scotland at the moment that they would be being asked to make a crucial decision without the information they need to make that decision."​
The irony is so delicious.

The SNP were going to win either way in this scenario. It's quite possible Sturgeon doesn't want a referendum within two years anyway with oil at $50 a barrel.
 
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Well, that's the problem of the SNP still clinging to ‘It's Scotland's oil’, when in fact they'd better move away from oil and into wind/tidal power.

A thought just out of my head: we might well end up with an Ireland-Northern Ireland-Scotland mini-free trade area. Well, if the Tories weren't hellbent on screwing the entire archipelago, that is.
 
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