Is Britain about to leave the EU?

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I have the impression that Britain is big on banking, while France produces and exports much more high tech stuff.

High tech stuff? Name a French high tech firm which is a world leader in its field? France did not deindustrialize as much as the UK under Thatcher as they used protectionism and state support to keep those industries going while Thatcher basically threw the UK's heavy industry under the bus for political reasons. So France continues to produce cars, planes, and other such industrial goods for export but they just are not that big of a player; more like distant also rans. Hell, wine and drinks continues to be one of their top exports especially to non-EU countries which just goes to show how uncompetitive most non-agricultural industries in the country are. Take away Airbus, which was a heavily subsidized government created Frankenstein, and you lose a huge chunk of French exports.
 
Good old francophobia.
The following export product groups represent the highest dollar value in French global shipments during 2014. Also shown is the percentage share each export category represents in terms of overall exports from France.

Machines, engines, pumps: US$66.3 billion (11.7% of total exports)
Aircraft, spacecraft: $57.7 billion (10.2%)
Vehicles: $47.6 billion (8.4%)
Electronic equipment: $44 billion (7.8%)
Pharmaceuticals: $35.2 billion (6.2%)
Plastics: $23 billion (4.1%)
Oil: $22 billion (3.9%)
Beverages: $18.1 billion (3.2%)
Medical, technical equipment: $17.9 billion (3.2%)
Perfumes, cosmetics: $17.3 billion (3.1%)
http://www.worldstopexports.com/frances-top-10-exports/2242

Also, airbus is not a french company. It is an european company.
 
Take away Airbus, which was a heavily subsidized government created Frankenstein, and you lose a huge chunk of French exports.

I could come with a list, but if this is the attitude what's the point?
 
Dont foment my francophobia. :nono:
 
High tech stuff? Name a French high tech firm which is a world leader in its field?
EDF, world leader in electricity, especially nuclear.
Arianespace, world leader in satellite launch.

Is that high-tech enough for you ?

Of course these are from the top of my head, and it's only the strictly speaking "leaders" (n°1) ranks in the world. If you allow "top ranking" in general, then you can add quite a bit more (car companies, Renault-Nissan being 4th and PSA the 9th ; defense companies with Dassault, railroad with SNCF, etc.).
 
High tech stuff? Name a French high tech firm which is a world leader in its field?
As others have said, you can find a list for yourself, if only you go looking for one.

But there is an interesting disconnect in French poltics. French politics don't seem to much like private enterprise and its large, often as not world-leading, companies. Politically France might have made itself a bit of a tough place for foreign firms to get into, partly because it's no zinch for French companies either, but these French companies tend to be successfully swash-buckling with the best of the rest world-wide. And it's not down to something as simple as having a tricky French domestic market to fall back on. (Most domestic markets are tricky to get into for outsiders, including the US or UK.)

French companies hold up quite well in international competition. They tend to have a healthy presence in things like the listings of Forbes etc. You just wouldn't know it if following French political debate. Which might be what throws you off here?
 
If you actually would have looked at the figures 'you don't know', you might not have come up with such an illogical conclusion. Imports and exports have little to do with political needs.
Unfortunately, it's just that: only partially true. As the figures 'you don't know' show. And no, economically it would show mostly in Britain, not the EU. That has to do with the actual size of the UK economy. But this is not the issue, there is no economic reason for the UK to leave the EU, only a political one.

Again, this about exports-imports, which are not even an issue except for economists.

You are utterly, utterly wrong to say it is only political and nothing to do with trade. This in today’s (admittedly Eurosceptic) Express suggests otherwise, does it not?

Express said:
BRITAIN has missed out on trillions of pounds worth of trade because of its membership of the EU, a report by a leading think tank claimed last night.
He found that a number of small, independent countries that apparently had no "collective clout" were still successful in agreeing trade deals.
Chile, Korea, Singapore and Switzerland had all been more successful than the EU in agreeing trade deals with other countries, the report showed.
The report said: "This data gives no support to the view that small independent countries are less able to negotiate with large economic powers, or that the latter are less willing to negotiate with them, and no support either to the view that they will be slower in concluding such agreements.
"Those particular disadvantages for smaller, independent countries are clearly imaginary, and along with it surely the notion that the UK would be unable to negotiate agreements on its own."
Since 1970, the EU had concluded 36 free trade agreements, the report found.
The aggregate GDP in 2015 of the 55 countries with an EU agreement in force in January 2015 was $6.7 trillion.
In contrast, the aggregate GDP of all the countries with which Chile had agreements in force was $58.3 trillion, Korea's totalled $40.8 trillion, Singapore's $38.7 trillion and Switzerland's $39.8 trillion. The agreements of these four countries included their agreements with the EU, which has a GDP of $16.7 trillion.
About 90 per cent of the agreements of these four smaller, independent countries include services, whereas only 68 per cent of the EU's trade agreements do so, an omission especially harmful to the UK, with its strong service sector.
The EU has therefore opened services markets of just $4.8 trillion to UK exporters, whereas the Swiss have opened markets of $35 trillion, the Singaporeans of $37.2 trillion, the Koreans of $40 trillion and Chileans of $55.4 trillion
.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/636483/UK-missed-out-on-trillions-pounds-trade-EU-membership





Well, you think wrong. Perhaps check some facts before thinking? Recent trends in the EU show not a trend to 'everincreasing union' (because of opposition to it), nor a trend of countries wanting to leave the EU, but on the contrary a growing EU. Perhaps you've missed that while thinking.

There is a phrase in The Rome Treaty and (I believe) every other treaty since that says ‘ever closer union’. This is nothing to do whatsoever with an enlarging union. The two can work together at the same time.
Maybe the various peoples of Europe do not want this ever closer union, but has anyone told Brussels? And if they did, would they listen? Of course not. Ever closer union will happen whether the people of Europe want it or not.
Unless, like Britain, they take positive steps to opt out of it.



(Not sure what to comment on things like 'German babies' and 'lack of democracy'.)
The main reason why Britain’s economy is likely to overtake Germany’s has a lot to do with demographics – because of huge influx of immigrants into Britain over the last few decades, our population is likely to overtake that of both France and Germany in the next few decades. Immigrants tend to have a lot more babies than indigenous Brits and Germans. Hence the affect the sudden influx of 1m refugees into Germany will have over the next few decades.
 
British national interest is just as complicit in halting the process of democratization of the EU as any other large EU member is.

In fact, it is usually Brits who seem to complain the loudest when democratically legitimized supranational decisions in the EU affect them, and who are happy to see their national government intervene when opportune.

People who obstruct the EU because they dislike its lack of democratic institutions are hypocrites because they maintain what they claim to despise.
Ironically the most democratic of all EU institutions, the Parlament, has been historically trashed by euroskeptics and stopped by any means of getting more relevance.

It is not about democracy vs "Brussels bureucracy", it is about national interests vs common interest. Some countries (mainly UK but not only UK) are not happy about giving up some of his own sovereignity and are (with some reason) suspicious of other countries being the same as themselves. EU integration is inevitably doomed until everybody leaves this decimononic state of mind behind.


Sometimes we (and I include myself in this) misuse the words ‘lack of democracy’ when what we really mean is – our right to decide things for ourselves, instead of being pontificated from on high by Brussels.

For example, there is an EU law that immigrants should register in the EU country they first land in. Suddenly Mrs Merkel lets in 1m just like that and they try and change the rules such that Britain is forced to take a quota of refugees. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the matter, it should be up to us to decide, not Brussels.

And just so you know, we have our own policy of bringing over tens of thousands of refugee families, rather than a bunch of young single men who appear to not be fitting in at all (putting it politely).
We also provide more foreign aid (c£12bn per year) than any other country other than the US. So we do do our bit – only in our way and not according to some Brussels dictat.
 
Originally Posted by Express
The EU has therefore opened services markets of just $4.8 trillion to UK exporters, whereas the Swiss have opened markets of $35 trillion, the Singaporeans of $37.2 trillion, the Koreans of $40 trillion and Chileans of $55.4 trillion.

In 2014 the EU exported 193.6bn Euro of services to the USA.

In 2014 the GDP of Chile was $258.1 bn. Chile exported 1.6bn Euro of services to the EU in 2013.

Listing the gdp of the countries is not a good guide to the amount of actual trade, but what do you expect from the Express.

I wonder if the trade agreements that Chile has agreed are on as good terms as the EU has negotiated or were they told this is it.
 
In 2014 the EU exported 193.6bn Euro of services to the USA.

In 2014 the GDP of Chile was $258.1 bn. Chile exported 1.6bn Euro of services to the EU in 2013.

Listing the gdp of the countries is not a good guide to the amount of actual trade, but what do you expect from the Express.

I wonder if the trade agreements that Chile has agreed are on as good terms as the EU has negotiated or were they told this is it.

Well, quite. I mentioned the Express is Eurosceptic – perhaps I should have added it is UKIP supporting as well, a party I have never voted for, and never shall.

But nevertheless, even if the figures are questionable, it shows this referendum is not just political, it is also about trade. We want trade freedom as well as political freedom.
 
It’s not the figures that are questionable it is their use. The Express is misrepresenting the GDP of the country that is your trading partner with the potential trade. Whether a country has a trade agreement or not is only one factor in the amount of trade. Chile has a small film industry, how much money did the film “I am from Chile” make in the UK.
 
Sometimes we (and I include myself in this) misuse the words ‘lack of democracy’ when what we really mean is – our right to decide things for ourselves, instead of being pontificated from on high by Brussels.

For example, there is an EU law that immigrants should register in the EU country they first land in. Suddenly Mrs Merkel lets in 1m just like that and they try and change the rules such that Britain is forced to take a quota of refugees. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the matter, it should be up to us to decide, not Brussels.

And just so you know, we have our own policy of bringing over tens of thousands of refugee families, rather than a bunch of young single men who appear to not be fitting in at all (putting it politely).
We also provide more foreign aid (c£12bn per year) than any other country other than the US. So we do do our bit – only in our way and not according to some Brussels dictat.
Being a member of the EU means your citizens have the right to work and reside indefinitely in another EU country. It is called common space, which is a nice thing (ask to any of the 300,000 british expatriats residing in Spain for instance), but implies some obligations too. You cant expect any fronterize EU country (like mine) to absorb all migrants trying to reach such common space, UK included. It is neither just nor practical and in the case of Syrian crisis it is not realistic at all, since i highly doubt Hungary is able to absorb such mass alone. i find sharing the burden proporttionally (and i doubt it is such a burden after all) is a good way to solve the issue. Anyway once stablished inside the EU most of them will end in Germany which was the target destination for most of them.
 
300,000 British in Spain does not include all the people who go there to work in a bar etc for six months. I am not sure if they would be happy to swap that for working in old people’s homes when the eastern Europeans are asked to leave, if we were to leave the EU.

From Royal Statistical Society

Spain

The amount of Brits in Spain is a difficult one to quantify because a significant portion of them will not be registered residents. There were 269,470 Brits in the 2007 Spanish census, but this rises to around a million when estimates for the population of non-registered Brits are added.

http://www.statslife.org.uk/social-...igrants-are-there-in-other-people-s-countries
 
And there other million of germans i think. There are even some villages with german majors in the Balears. But it is nice, the more we are the funnier. Anyway i was talking about permanent registered residents. I think you need to register when you are living here for more than six months or so, i doubt most do it though.

Many have left in the last years however, because lack of jobs due to crisis. If things dont get better soon only the old ones living of his retirements will remain. :(
 
Some British people like to be served in bars, after they have eaten their fish and chips, by native speakers. I saw a TV program a while ago where a Greek bar owner said he would replace his English bar people with Irish if the UK left the EU and there were restrictions. So there could well be more casual jobs for the Irish.
 
Being a member of the EU means your citizens have the right to work and reside indefinitely in another EU country. It is called common space, which is a nice thing (ask to any of the 300,000 british expatriats residing in Spain for instance), but implies some obligations too. You cant expect any fronterize EU country (like mine) to absorb all migrants trying to reach such common space, UK included. It is neither just nor practical and in the case of Syrian crisis it is not realistic at all, since i highly doubt Hungary is able to absorb such mass alone. i find sharing the burden proporttionally (and i doubt it is such a burden after all) is a good way to solve the issue. Anyway once stablished inside the EU most of them will end in Germany which was the target destination for most of them.

Britain is already a huge magnet for immigration. IIRC we had net immigration of 330,000 last year – a city the size of Coventry coming to the UK every year! (c600K in and c270K out).
Lil’ ‘ol England is the most densely populated country in Europe and one of the most densely populated in the world. And our hospitals, schools, roads etc. are creaking under the weight.
Now the vast majority of these immigrants are hard-working, pay their taxes and put many a ‘LazyBrit’ in their place. Great for the economy – we have more people in employment than ever before, our unemployment rate of 5.4% is quite low (lazyBrits most of them).
I would argue we already take our fair share of immigrants that come into the likes of Spain, Italy and France in the first place. Just look at the Calais – there are something like 5000 immigrants in a camp there trying to get across to lil ol’ England. I can, of course, understand why – this is where the jobs and perhaps their families are. But what is so wrong with France, Spain, Italy, etc. that they risk their lives to get from there to the UK?

We do our bit, and some. We cannot have an indiscriminate Brussels dictat telling us we must take even more (as sorry as we might be about the individuals concerned).
 
Maybe they go to UK because we are already full:
640px-Countries_by_immigrant_population.svg.png
 
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