Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Thorgalaeg]

The steel industry in the UK is in the process of being closed down.

There are a number of reasons for this.

But the biggest reason now is that the Chinese are dumping steel during a time of world overcapacity.

Sensible countries such as the USA won't allow that.

If the UK was independent, we could similarly block or put tariffs on dumped Chinese steel being exported here.
It is very unlikely that China would retaliate in any meaningful way because the Chinese would still enjoy a
massive trading surplus with the UK and they would not wish to prejudice that.

However the UK is part of the EU so the task is supposedly delegated to the EU, but the EU is very much driven
by Germany that does not mind if the UK steel industry is wiped out and does not wish to prejudice its own very
favourable trade balance with China.

So from our perspective, the EU does not work on steel. This is particularly appalling as the predecessor to the
European Community was the agreement on steel that included IIRC France, Germany, Luxembourg, Belgium.

Now leaving the EU will not solve this steel problem, but from my perspective
remaining in the EU precludes any solution.

There are so many other examples where the EU is not working for the UK, and it is
the totality of such examples@

i. Eurozone,
ii. Over Fishing,
iii. Russia and Ukraine,
iv. refugee crisis,
v. state funded benefits

that are driving the population here to be increasingly sceptical.

Companies that export to the EU know that they will have to comply with EU rules on their products.
So we export left hand drove vehicles. But what is really irritating is that it has become apparent that
while the UK is dutifully complying, continental companies such as VW were flouting that with their emissions.

I know i know. We most of the world drive on the wrong side, sorry.

Problem for UK if it leaves the common market are custom fees. In other words i would delete amazon.co.uk from my favorites and replace it with amazon.fr .it or .de
It would be annoying but thankfully there is Google Translator.

 

[Daw]

In other words i would delete amazon.co.uk from my favorites and replace it with amazon.fr .it or .de
It would be annoying but thankfully there is Google Translator.

What's wrong with the Spanish version?

 

[SLAAKMAN]

EU represents quite natural process of consolidation of power and resources in face of global development. It can have many faces and forms and isnt inherently wrong but rather progressive. The problem is precisely the shape is going to take and the methods which are being used for its implementation. Somewhere on the way has the idea of unity and solidarity gave away to an idea of power projection and an empire building. The ideals of interdependence and cooperation has been misused for greed and egoistic purposes of elites who use political correctness as an instruneńt of manipulation and democracy with humanism as pretext for unlimited exploit.

True. That is precisely why it should be dismantled. Until the world finally rids itself of Utopian ideologies (socialism, progressivism, feminism, Marxism etc) nothing will provide a workable system.

 

[Daw]

True. That is precisely why it should be dismantled. Until the world finally rids itself of Utopian ideologies (socialism, progressivism, feminism, Marxism etc) nothing will provide a workable system.

Wait, are you saying that a Dystopian ideology is the only thing that can provide a workable huh system? If so, will anyone but the very few like the way it is working then? And will it not be exactly the reason for its workability to be temporary? I mean, in theory.

As to the utopian concepts, they are impossible ideals, granted, but they are at least worth trying. Some grim future OTOH is just not worth heading to, is it?

 

[Verbose]

Wait, are you saying that a Dystopian ideology is the only thing that can provide a workable huh system? If so, will anyone but the very few like the way it is working then? And will it not be exactly the reason for its workability to be temporary? I mean, in theory.

As to the utopian concepts, they are impossible ideals, granted, but they are at least worth trying. Some grim future OTOH is just not worth heading to, is it?

Dystopia as the only alternative to utopia is a false dichotomy.

The assumption rather tends to be that there is a vast territory of pragmatic middle-ground in which to operate in order to try to make the world a less horrible place. It's the take-no-prisoners-accept-no-substitute-extremism either way that tends to be pointed out as the problem.

Or as a Social Democrat once pointed out by way of criticism of the Soviet system — any political system that accepts shooting part of the crew of the ship of state as part of the operation of said ship, is not worth the bother, never mind how splendid its glorious visions of a bright future might be.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

What's wrong with the Spanish version?

Nothing of course. Currently i buy indistintly in spanish and uk online stores because language. If i dont find something in spanish shops or the price is better then i buy it in uk. If i dont find it in spain or uk then i look in other eu countries. Surely it is the same for most europeans who cant read english. I think that is a huge advantage for UK over other eu countries on e-commerce at least. Extra common market countries are not even a possibility because customs.

 

[Silurian]

There is nothing to stop a Spanish site from having a English option.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Sure. Or any site from any other european country btw. But usually they dont have it.

 

[danjuno]

I doubt if much notice will be taken in England as to Scotland’s position in the UK when voting for this referendum. Because of the price of oil and how well the SNP are doing in Westminster I see no chance of Scotland voting to leave the UK (especially as Spain would block them joining the EU anyway).


Very, very few Scots living in England want Scottish independence.

Since when does SNP doing well in Westminster preclude independence?

 

[Oerdin]

I doubt it will leave.

 

[dutchfire]

I was referring to the generality of steel tariffs post WW2. I note that imposing
tariffs in the absence of evidence of dumping is not the same as during dumping.

While the Wikipedia entry is very critical, the USA still has a steel industry.

I do not believe there will be a UK steel producing industry in ten years time.

1) For steel, the main problem is overproduction. China's internal growth is slowing down, so they use less steel themselves. Oversupply means low prices in any industry.
2) The steel industry in other European countries is doing better than in the UK.
3) The EU can and does impose ant-dumping measures (random link http://www.euractiv.com/sections/tr...anti-dumping-duties-china-taiwan-steel-313276)

 

[Wolfbeckett]

The UK leaving the EU would be incredibly inconvenient for me personally, so... please don't do it, UK!

My companies trustee service for .EU domains is in the UK, if the UK leaves the EU we'll have to find a new trustee and I'll have to do thousands of contact updates. Just thinking about it is giving me a headache.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

Since when does SNP doing well in Westminster preclude independence?

Just my opinion. Many Scots quite like the fact that Scotland is so much better represented in Westminster by a 50 odd Nationalist who are looking after their rights better than the UK orientated Labour MPs they replaced. It does not preclude it, it just makes independence less likely. IMO.

Problem for UK if it leaves the common market are custom fees. In other words i would delete amazon.co.uk from my favorites and replace it with amazon.fr .it or .de
It would be annoying but thankfully there is Google Translator.

Thanks to our wonderful EU, the profits Amazon.co.uk make are declared in Luxembourg where they pay their Corporation tax. We would have much more chance of keeping those profits here if we left the EU. So maybe we wouldn’t notice the likes of you taking your business elsewhere.

The thing is the EU is Britain’s biggest single market and Britain is the EU’s biggest single market and if we do decide to leave, there would very, very quickly be trade agreements put into place to the advantage of us all. Too much is at stake for both sides not to do this.

 

[SLAAKMAN]

Wait, are you saying that a Dystopian ideology is the only thing that can provide a workable () system?

No, quite the opposite actually. Marxist, totalitarian ideologies are inherently Dystopian.

As to the utopian concepts, they are impossible ideals, granted, but they are at least worth trying. Some grim future OTOH is just not worth heading to, is it?

Theyre definitely not worth trying considering that everyone who has tried for the past hundred years has mauled their people doing so in numerous ways. Dystopians can only lead us to grim futures.

 

[Algeroth]

Unfortunately, i fear that the Brits will decide to stay and continue with their whining.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Just my opinion. Many Scots quite like the fact that Scotland is so much better represented in Westminster by a 50 odd Nationalist who are looking after their rights better than the UK orientated Labour MPs they replaced. It does not preclude it, it just makes independence less likely. IMO.



Thanks to our wonderful EU, the profits Amazon.co.uk make are declared in Luxembourg where they pay their Corporation tax. We would have much more chance of keeping those profits here if we left the EU. So maybe we wouldn’t notice the likes of you taking your business elsewhere.

Not the point. Point is the custom fees if the UK leaves the EU and the likes as me aka european consumers not buying british products anymore.

The thing is the EU is Britain’s biggest single market and Britain is the EU’s biggest single market and if we do decide to leave, there would very, very quickly be trade agreements put into place to the advantage of us all. Too much is at stake for both sides not to do this.

Much more for the UK than for the EU. And it would be interesting to know what "trade agreements to the advantage of us all" are you thinking on exactly.

 

[Silurian]

"Trade agreements to the advantage of us all" would start with no change until we have negotiated.

 

[Agent327]

The thing is the EU is Britain’s biggest single market and Britain is the EU’s biggest single market and if we do decide to leave, there would very, very quickly be trade agreements put into place to the advantage of us all.

I see some problems with this statement. (It also raises the question why on Earth Britain would leave the EU in the first place, but that doesn't seem to be the issue.)

 

[Flying Pig]

"Trade agreements to the advantage of us all" would start with no change until we have negotiated.

I'm not sure we can make any strong statements about how the EU would respond to a British exit: the sheer level of spite surrounding its entry (which was blocked multiple times, despite convincing economic reasons to accept it) suggests that we can't assume that everyone will negotiate in the best interests of all, or even in their own best interests.

 

[EnglishEdward]

IMHO EU action on steel seems too little too late and likely on wrong product set.


There is this myth that if the UK leaves the EU it must very quickly
negotiate trade agreements.

This is not so, free trade is about letting buyers and sellers trade,
not having governments sign documents with other governments.

And negotiating in a hurry is a recipe for getting poor terms.


The UK would simply need to advise the EU of the date of its independence.


Dear sir,

At [dd/mm/yy] the majority of the UK electorate voted for leaving the EU; and
the UK parliament has decided that the cessation date will be [dd/mm/yy].

From that date all treaty (lawyers to insert list of treaties) obligations on all
parties and EU laws not expressly incorporated into UK law shall cease to apply.

The UK government has no plans to introduce any particular new tariffs on goods
or services sold to the UK by the EU, but reserves its position regarding dumping.

However the EU should note that if it intends to apply tariffs on UK goods or services
to EU member states, the UK government may take appropriate reciprocal action.

Good luck with your EU Project.


Regards