Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Atticus]

Do you deny that the "leavers" are being widely painted as ignorant, selfish, bigoted, xenophobic... er... pensioners? This thread alone is also full of people deriving some level of glee over watching us suffer for our misdeeds. That's more than just disagreeing. I'm just asking why Scottish people voting for essentially the same thing 2 years ago were hailed as forward-thinking champions of liberty.

I think the appreciation of Scottish for their vote is just in your head. The impression I have is that most people outside UK thought the Scottish referendum is UK's internal business and didn't have any opinion on it.

The glee, I feel sorry for people who voted 'stay' and actually I feel sorry for much of the people who voted 'leave' too. I do feel some glee about those leavers who actually are voluntarily misinformed and who like to jump into the xenophobia bandwagon etc. There are plenty of that kind people everywhere, and it's nice when they get to taste the consequences of their holy wrath.

I'm not annoyed that a country decides to leave the EU. I'm very pro-EU, but I also respect the idea of nations. I'm annoyed at UK's hypocrisy (most whining country in Europe despite being the one with more special treatment than all others combined) and the fact it was a disgustingly selfish millstone that roadblocked Europe for 40 years and was never interested in it to begin with.

One contributing factor might be that the vote itself begins to look almost like a petulant child's demand to get special treatment.

But anyhow. I sincerely hope that the whole thing won't be that hard on the UK. (Or K if Scotland opts out).

 

[Takhisis]

Corbyn's the only one I'd feel sorry for and it's unclear as yet whether he's won or lost from this. As for Cameron, the man is a criminal swine. Johnson and Farage are even worse, they're Trumpish scum without a modicum of decency.

I feel sorry for Corbyn as well, but for different reasons.

I think the appreciation of Scottish for their vote is just in your head. The impression I have is that most people outside UK thought the Scottish referendum is UK's internal business and didn't have any opinion on it.

Everyone more or less was of the opinion that Scotland had to vote No at the time. Barack Obama unashamedly dipped into it.

 

[Akka]

One contributing factor might be that the vote itself begins to look almost like a petulant child's demand to get special treatment.

But anyhow. I sincerely hope that the whole thing won't be that hard on the UK. (Or K if Scotland opts out).

The petulant child was already ludicrously favored, and his tantrum is looking like it might kills, or at least several harms, the EU and cause yet another global crisis with again years of unemployment and perhaps some other country crashing down due to financial troubles.

I'm having a hard time sharing your leniency.

 

[Kyriakos]

The petulant child was already ludicrously favored, and his tantrum is looking like it might kills, or at least several harms, the EU and cause yet another global crisis with again years of unemployment and perhaps some other country crashing down due to financial troubles.

I'm having a hard time sharing your leniency.

Going by the above, maybe the people in the UK were horrified by the abuse of english. It could be foam-related, though

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I couldn't avoid being told about this yesterday from the group that were all for leaving the EU. One of them at the last minute decided to find out more about the EU and changed their vote to remain. The others, the first thing they said was that anyone who voted remain 'chickened out', and then went on all the good things that will happen that Britain will now leave the EU. The worst possible scenario according to them is that 'nothing will change'. They did mention entering a kind of Norway style deal with the EU, saying that Norway pays nothing to the EU, but they said what would be better is that Britain cuts off completely from EU and Europe, including all trade (and that Britain never had much trade with Europe anyway). Another thing is that Britain is now £10 billion richer, anyone saying anything about EU funding is stupid because that funding is less than what Britain paid into the EU. The best part for them is that it's now more likely that Boris Johnson will become Prime Minister. They even went as far as said that Britain should being building a barbed wire fence across the cliffs of Dover and placing sea mines in the English Channel.

 

[Cheetah]

Yeah, well... some people just want to see themselves burn, I suppose?

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I keep being reminded of the propaganda adverts in Children of Men, "Only Britain Stands Alone!"

 

[Atticus]

There's a good film.

Everyone more or less was of the opinion that Scotland had to vote No at the time. Barack Obama unashamedly dipped into it.

Politicians perhaps, but real people (non-lizards) didn't care that much. At least I didn't notice.

 

[Cheetah]

#Brexit 2.0? England is out of the UEFA cup too!

Was an awesome match though. Both teams did awesome!

 

[Akka]

#Brexit 2.0? England is out of the UEFA cup too!

The amount of jokes available is without end.

Can't resist to quote one from a Tweeter :

"Don't worry England, I'm sure Boris Johnson has a plan for how to enjoy the benefits of Euro2016 while not being in it."

 

[Arakhor]

If it was an English own goal that gave Ireland victory, the irony would have been thick enough to cut with an angle-grinder.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I think the appreciation of Scottish for their vote is just in your head. The impression I have is that most people outside UK thought the Scottish referendum is UK's internal business and didn't have any opinion on it.

I wasn't speaking specifically of people outside the UK, there are enough vocal people within the UK as it is.

After the Scottish referendum the youngies were calling for the death of the conservative oldies because they let their desire to safeguard their finances and stability stand in the way of independence and political change.

After the EU referendum the youngies are calling for the death of the conservative (!?) oldies because they let their desire for independence and political change stand in the way of safeguarding THEIR finances and stability.

In both cases the youngies seem be claiming the moral high ground unchallenged. Possibly because the oldies don't know how to work the internet, I don't know.

 

[Atticus]

Ok. I'm not familiar with the discussion on the Scottish referendum, just noticed that there was one. That's however what people are like, me included. They always claim the moral high ground, even if they have to molest facts and logic to do so. On the other hand, that's also the impression when you read opinions of a group: they contradict each others although the thoughts of the individuals might not.

 

[Arwon]

^Worth noting that Scotland can be vetoed by Spain (didn't Spain's PM say that in so many words multiple times already?-- 'break-away republic' etc).

Not that it is the main issue, but it is in the realm of fantasy that Scotland will surely be in the EU even if they leave UK tomorrow.

Spain now has its support of the EU pitched against its opposition to secessionist inspirations.

I don't think Scotland seceding *to stay in the EU* is going to be as big of a red line for them. It's no longer a direct analogue to Catalonia and has no meaning for restive regions in countries in the EU. Plus now it would be contributing to negative consequences for the UK leaving the EU.

 

[innonimatu]

You can't blame people for associating a movement with the people who predominate within that movement.

Those who predominate or those who had the most media time?

You can't deny the power of the media in "creating facts". Right now they're fully engaged in yet another anti-Corbyn campaign because the guy was the only one who said "ok, the people has voted, let's start working on making this real". And because early elections are likely the nest of vipers within his party had to destroy him or be destroyed, and has called on their contacts in the media.

This is what the new class war looks like. A not-so-long time ago you had the Lords living in the countryside, duly defended by most of their paid servants. Not all, but most. Their economy dictated their alignment. And backed in the cities by the upper-middle class of high public servants and "gentlemen of independent means" in the cities.

Now you have a "cosmopolitan upper-middle class", defended by most their servants in the services trades that depend on those clients, but not all. And backed by an aspiring middle class who lives on credit but still fancies itself as moving towards the upper class - though never arriving there. And this coalition sets itself against the suburban and rural population. It's a equation that risks becoming unbalanced as fewer citizens work as servants of the wealthy, being replaced by cheaper immigrants. So those move to the "useless class", and back a break in the system.

This is the Uk's situation. This is the situation in many parts of the EU. And the situation in several european countries. This is going to break. What is still open is who will conduct it.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I wasn't speaking specifically of people outside the UK, there are enough vocal people within the UK as it is.

After the Scottish referendum the youngies were calling for the death of the conservative oldies because they let their desire to safeguard their finances and stability stand in the way of independence and political change.

After the EU referendum the youngies are calling for the death of the conservative (!?) oldies because they let their desire for independence and political change stand in the way of safeguarding THEIR finances and stability.

Thank you.

My only dilemma is if Scotland votes again to leave the UK and remain in the EU,
do I regard that as a safeguarding their finances and stability or desiring
independence and political change.

In both cases the youngies seem be claiming the moral high ground unchallenged. Possibly because the oldies don't know how to work the internet, I don't know.

As an oldie, I have every confidence that the youngsters will grow up
and become oldies too.

 

[Takhisis]

Politicians perhaps, but real people (non-lizards) didn't care that much. At least I didn't notice.

Well, it happened during that part of the year when it's safe to go outside in Finland. You probably weren't online that much.

If it was an English own goal that gave Ireland victory, the irony would have been thick enough to cut with an angle-grinder.

We're discussing English political blunders uring the Troubles, are we?

As an oldie, I have every confidence that the youngsters will grow up
and become oldies too.

Lies! Slander! Evil propaganda!

 

[Arakhor]

We're discussing English political blunders uring the Troubles, are we?

That works (unintentionally), but I meant Iceland.

You can't deny the power of the media in "creating facts". Right now they're fully engaged in yet another anti-Corbyn campaign because the guy was the only one who said "ok, the people has voted, let's start working on making this real". And because early elections are likely the nest of vipers within his party had to destroy him or be destroyed, and has called on their contacts in the media.

So now the media are complicit in destroying Jeremy Corbin's career because he spoke in favour of the referendum result? Really??

 

[Ajidica]

So now the media are complicit in destroying Jeremy Corbin's career because he spoke in favour of the referendum result? Really??

What is going on with Corbyn and Labour anyhow? I thought Corbyn had already seen off most of his opponents; yet now it seems like they are coming out of the woodwork. Is it just pro-EU Labour politicians taking out their frustration on the nearest available target or is something else going on?

 

[Arakhor]

I really have no idea. Yes, Corbyn is somewhat unorthodox, has nuanced views on the EU (like a good many people) and didn't exactly seem very visible (to me, at least) during the referendum campaign, but to lose two-thirds of his shadow cabinet over the weekend and today? I'm fairly certain that's unprecedented in politics.