Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Manfred Belheim]

The people who lose millions in the stock market crashes are the people who still have millions even after the crash.

True, but that doesn't mean they don't get apoplectic with rage and incredibly vocal about the millions they DID lose.

The folks at the bottom of the economic ladder are more like the digital citizens in your ransacked cities, feeling the pain.

Well, you say that, but (anecdotal as it may be) I don't know anyone who was particularly affected by, or concerned about, the 2008 recession, and I assure you it's not because I live in an ivory tower. Most of the people I know aren't even in a position to get a mortgage or buy their own property, nor have any savings, so things like "interest rates" and "economic growth" are just things that happen to other people. Sure, there may well be more unemployment, but it's not wholesale and, like I said, being on the dole will not materially affect their lives anyway. If anything it might raise their income.

I'm not claiming it's all sunshine and rainbows, but at the same time it's not the end of the world either. Kind of just a bit "meh" in general.

 

[Lexicus]

I dunno about Britain but I would be mightily surprised if the trend wasn't toward the destruction of what meager wealth poor people have. The recession increased inequality enormously. In the US real income has actually dropped for the majority of the population below what it was in 2007, and in any case there was hardly any real income growth for 90% of the population from the mid-70s or so right up to 2007.

I haven't seen the corresponding statistics for the UK but I'd be mightily surprised if the situation were much different. Of course, Britain has more public investment (like NHS for example) so reduced income for the poor probably doesn't translate into quite as much human suffering.

But still, looking just at unemployment, this chart tells the tale:

Thanks to austerity that bulge is a lot taller and wider than it needed to be.

 

[Akka]

This chart tell about the official figure of unemployment. From a country which has zero-hour contracts.
It'd be more relevant to have actual statistic about disposable income and unstable/partial employment.

 

[Lexicus]

I'm a lot more familiar with the vagaries of the US employment statistics than the UK's. That was just to show that the effects of the recession on poor folk shouldn't be discounted. Recessions are generally a much bigger problem for the poor than for the rich.

 

[metalhead]

Ugh. It's just stupid to try to say that economic downturns don't hurt the poor and middle class. They are by far the most at risk when markets and property values go down; unlike wealthier people who are able to diversify their investments, what meager wealth they have tends to be in real assets and retirement accounts that depend on their assets increasing in value to recognize any kind of benefit from what they have. Large drops in value can be crippling, especially to retirees or people near retirement age, who don't necessarily have time to wait for their value to recover.

Sure, people living paycheck-to-paycheck with no jobs and no assets at all might not be affected, but that is a relatively small universe of people. And even then, people receiving government money can face idiotic austerity policies cutting their benefits. And the universe of people negatively impacted by markets tanking is far larger.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Sure, people living paycheck-to-paycheck with no jobs and no assets at all might not be affected, but that is a relatively small universe of people.

It really isn't. You ought to look up how many people are renting well into their thirties (and beyond) in the UK these days.

 

[Lexicus]

You really think that renting is enough to qualify someone as living "paycheck-to-paycheck?"

 

[Tahuti]

Anyone notice how Britain just isn't about to leave the EU just yet? They have yet to invoke article 50.

Looks like they will factor in Northern Ireland and Scotland in the referendum result and reframe it as a remain victory since the amount of countries voting leave is not a majority.

 

[Verbose]

Anyone notice how Britain just isn't about to leave the EU just yet? They have yet to invoke article 50.

Looks like they will factor in Northern Ireland and Scotland in the referendum result and reframe it as a remain victory since the amount of countries voting leave is not a majority.

Yes, but as long as the UK doesn't actually take "Brexit" off the table, it's going to (have to) be treated as if it is still on, if not now then soon...

 

[Birdjaguar]

I wonder how likely it is that no one will actually trigger the exit.

 

[Akka]

Pretty high actually I'd say. It's obvious that even the pro-Brexiters are actually backpedaling as hard as they can to NOT be the ones to do it... Maybe they realized it was a rotten idea for them (though it would probably be great for Europe now that the shock is passed).

 

[Birdjaguar]

Would Cameron get to undo his resignation?

Would the rest of the EU be helpful or just laugh at the UK?

 

[metalhead]

It really isn't. You ought to look up how many people are renting well into their thirties (and beyond) in the UK these days.

That has little to do with anything we're talking about. People rent for all kinds of reasons, many of which have nothing to do with their income or wealth.

 

[Verbose]

Would Cameron get to undo his resignation?

How? The nation and the party alike demand his retention on office in huge public outpourings of feeling that the Father of His Nation must not abandon it in its hour of need?

Would the rest of the EU be helpful or just laugh at the UK?

Um, sure... What would actually help though?

Generally speaking the feeling is that the UK is by now a very angry boil, and prodding it, even for curative purposes, will not be well recieved. It's for the British to lance for themselves. Maybe the EU can then help with the aftercare?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

You really think that renting is enough to qualify someone as living "paycheck-to-paycheck?"

Don't ignore the "no assets at all" part please. It was right there in what I quoted. It was actually relevant.

 

[Akka]

How? The nation and the party alike demand his retention on office in huge public outpourings of feeling that the Father of His Nation must not abandon it in its hour of need?

Or maybe they're asking the coward who started this whole mess and who broke his campaign pledge of triggering the Brexit the very day it was voted, to actually takes reponsability ?

Generally speaking the feeling is that the UK is by now a very angry boil, and prodding it, even for curative purposes, will not be well recieved. It's for the British to lance for themselves. Maybe the EU can then help with the aftercare?

The UK has been the single most disruptive element in the EU, and caused most of the problems it now faces. Helping the UK should be dead last on its priorities - repairing the damage the UK did instead.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

That has little to do with anything we're talking about. People rent for all kinds of reasons, many of which have nothing to do with their income or wealth.

While a small minority of people may rent whilst also owning property elsewhere, the majority of people rent because they don't own their own place. Unless they also have a ton of Nazi gold under the bed, that means they probably don't have any significant assets.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Maybe it was all a joke and Boris Johnson is now rolling on the floor laughing his ass off.

Or a bet between Boris and Dave and now Dave owes Boris his five pounds.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Would Cameron get to undo his resignation?

Would the rest of the EU be helpful or just laugh at the UK?

Right now ot seems most of the EU wants the UK to leave already. It was always a difficult relationship, and this is now an opportunity for a clean break. Mending it would require trust that just isn't there anymore.

 

[Sommerswerd]

people may rent whilst also owning property elsewhere

present

This is not anywhere near as rare as you seem to think it is... but to quote you... "my evidence is anecdotal"

And I don't have any horde of Nazi gold... sadly... Based on my vast Wolfenstein playing experience... I'm assuming it works like regular gold, yes?