Oerdin
Deity
That British laws are reviewed by British courts. What part of that concept was difficult for you to understand?
Is Britain about to leave the EU?
- Thread starter Mega Tsunami
- Start date
- Status
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
We're all aware that there's no such thing as "British law", right? That we have three separate legal systems- Scottish, Irish and Anglo-Welsh- and each has their own corresponding court system?
It's a small point, but still fairly important.
It's a small point, but still fairly important.
Verbose
Deity
Except Britain already was sovereign. It was as sovereign in the EU as it will be out of it. Brexit is a matter of telling Europe to feck off in very general terms.
Oerdin
Deity
We need a dumb smile for people who do not know there is a Parliament in Westminister. It has only been one thousand years so I guess we need more time.
Last edited:
Oerdin
Deity
You must like pretzels and that is why you twist yourself into one.
Oerdin
Deity
So do I.
The pretzel seems to be your own. It has been mentioned that 'immigration' was the reason for the Brexit. But the UK has opted out of the EU's common internal borders. Independent economic policy? Britain never gave up the pound. Foreign policy in general then? The EU has never had a common foreign policy to begin with.
Mega Tsunami
Emperor
Trump has given an interview to the Times and Bild. He doesn’t think much of the EU and seems positive about getting a post-EU deal with Britain.
Here is a summary in the Gruaniad:
On Brexit
The Times: Trump said he believed Brexit was “going to end up being a great thing” because people wanted to reclaim their identity from the European Union. Other countries would leave as well and it would be hard to keep the EU from falling apart under the pressure of immigration, he said. The refugee crisis which started in 2015 had been the “straw that broke the camel’s back” in terms of popular support for a unified Europe. “If they hadn’t been forced to take in all of the refugees, so many, with all the problems that it . . . entails, I think that you wouldn’t have a Brexit. This was the final straw that broke the camel’s back. . . I believe others will leave. I do think keeping it together is not gonna be as easy as a lot of people think.”
The EU was basically a vehicle for Germany, he said, and “that’s why I thought the UK was so smart in getting out”.
On trade deal with UK
The Times: Playing up his British ancestry, Trump said his Scottish mother had been “so proud” of the Queen and said he was eager to get a trade deal done quickly.
“I’m a big fan of the UK, we’re gonna work very hard to get it done quickly and done properly. Good for both sides. We’ll have a meeting [with Theresa May] right after I get into the White House and . . . we’re gonna get something done very quickly.”
Full report here:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...d-about-brexit-putin-israel-syria-and-twitter
Here is a summary in the Gruaniad:
On Brexit
The Times: Trump said he believed Brexit was “going to end up being a great thing” because people wanted to reclaim their identity from the European Union. Other countries would leave as well and it would be hard to keep the EU from falling apart under the pressure of immigration, he said. The refugee crisis which started in 2015 had been the “straw that broke the camel’s back” in terms of popular support for a unified Europe. “If they hadn’t been forced to take in all of the refugees, so many, with all the problems that it . . . entails, I think that you wouldn’t have a Brexit. This was the final straw that broke the camel’s back. . . I believe others will leave. I do think keeping it together is not gonna be as easy as a lot of people think.”
The EU was basically a vehicle for Germany, he said, and “that’s why I thought the UK was so smart in getting out”.
On trade deal with UK
The Times: Playing up his British ancestry, Trump said his Scottish mother had been “so proud” of the Queen and said he was eager to get a trade deal done quickly.
“I’m a big fan of the UK, we’re gonna work very hard to get it done quickly and done properly. Good for both sides. We’ll have a meeting [with Theresa May] right after I get into the White House and . . . we’re gonna get something done very quickly.”
Full report here:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...d-about-brexit-putin-israel-syria-and-twitter
EnglishEdward
Deity
It likely increased turnout for the referendum spurring:
(a) those perceiving the adverse impacts of high net immigration to vote Leave;
and
(b) others particularly non whites scared by the lie that limiting immigration from Europe was
merely a prelude for nasty rightwingers to take over and be unfriendly to non whites, to vote Remain
but it is not the main reason.
The main reasons are about and around democratic self determination, being lost
to the UK as it was slowly morphing into the European Union super State
https://pesd.princeton.edu/?q=node/266
This merely meant that (excluding the Island of Ireland) other EU state citizens had to present
passports before entering the UK. They currently still retain full legal right to immigrate.
Thanks to Gordon Brown.
It was being developed and was the future under ever closer union, and a common military too.
Last edited:
Lillefix
I'm serious. You can.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2003
- Messages
- 5,699
After he's jailed Hillary and made Mexico pay for the wall perhaps. And then I'm sure it will be a very favourable deal for Britain.
EnglishEdward
Deity
I have a suspicion that Donald Trump will expect us to build him a free golf course and have his daughters/grand daughters marry into Royalty.
Still what else is Scotland or our lesser Royals there for?
But his approach is at least different to the back of the queue line from Obama and co.
Lillefix
I'm serious. You can.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2003
- Messages
- 5,699
I don't disagree there. Can't be much worse than the Obama option.
I would sincerely hope not. There was also the blatant lie about funding the NHS, which is about as close to a secular religion as we get (and certainly wouldn't have hurt the Leave vote at all), but of course no one can say just how the vote was affected.
Mega Tsunami
Emperor
Blaming it all on ‘racist leave voters’ (as the liberal elitists have done) is an even bigger lie than the £350m.
According to Lord Ashcroft’s poll:
Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” Just over one in eight (13%) said remaining would mean having no choice “about how the EU expanded its membership or its powers in the years ahead.” Only just over one in twenty (6%) said their main reason was that “when it comes to trade and the economy, the UK would benefit more from being outside the EU than from being part of it.”
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
According to Lord Ashcroft’s poll:
Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” Just over one in eight (13%) said remaining would mean having no choice “about how the EU expanded its membership or its powers in the years ahead.” Only just over one in twenty (6%) said their main reason was that “when it comes to trade and the economy, the UK would benefit more from being outside the EU than from being part of it.”
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
Except that by being a member of the EU you subordinate your legislation to the EU's. Why are you being so unnecessarily aggressive? Are you trying to ‘win’ the thread by offending people?
Verbose
Deity
EU law is British law, and that's the outcome of sovereign British decisions. (Same as for every other EU member state.)
So would a sovereigns British decision to rip it all up be — sovereign. Of course if British law, which is also EU law, is no longer British law, since it's also EU law — what's British law then?
At least it seems it might require some rather hefty feats of legislation asap.
Which, it has been suggested, is beyond the capacity of parliament to do — at least without unacceptable hiatuses — so really it can only be executed in something like an expedient manner by transferring legislative rights to the executive branch of the government, i.e. the cabinet, at least temporarily.
So the status of the laws that the British courts oversee might be problematic. While the legislative branch of government might have to be suspended pro tem, to sort things out. All of which would massively empower HM's government. And for lack of a current effective HM's opposition as well...
So would a sovereigns British decision to rip it all up be — sovereign. Of course if British law, which is also EU law, is no longer British law, since it's also EU law — what's British law then?
At least it seems it might require some rather hefty feats of legislation asap.
Which, it has been suggested, is beyond the capacity of parliament to do — at least without unacceptable hiatuses — so really it can only be executed in something like an expedient manner by transferring legislative rights to the executive branch of the government, i.e. the cabinet, at least temporarily.
So the status of the laws that the British courts oversee might be problematic. While the legislative branch of government might have to be suspended pro tem, to sort things out. All of which would massively empower HM's government. And for lack of a current effective HM's opposition as well...
Oerdin
Deity
Mostly it is I think you are being deliberately obtuse. For instance, our current line of discussion started with why the ECJ should not have authority over a post Brexit UK. which I said that is how it should be. You then questioned why a nonEU member shouldn't remain subordinate to a foreign court which is often hostile and not responsive to the will of the British people.
Now you are back to pretending the Brexit vote never happened so, yes, I am wondering if you are being obtuse or simply arguing in bad faith.
It is absolutely clear that a UK which is not a member of the EU should not be bound by a foreign court. It shall have its own court system which shall have sole power to review the laws of the UK.
- Status
Similar threads
