There are a lot of them in Albuquerque and we are not such a big city. You can get one for less than $50k.
Is Elon Musk a fraud?
- Thread starter Kyriakos
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This is based on a quick phone search as I'm going primarily off of memory here, but I'm unconvinced.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
I don't have any plans to buy any auto-pilot automobiles in the future. Though I have my own reservations for auto-piloted cars.
Rg339
Prince
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No, but arguably, at the time when he stepped in, what was needed most in the field was organizational influence and will, not technical ability. I put high value on that organizational skill, because like I said, when Bush and later Obama (mistakenly) punted the thing to the private sector, there really was no guarantee that anyone with the capital would step in.
At the time, it was organization and will by somebody with bankroll that were most necessary for the field. Engineers gotta eat or they can’t do much engineering(as later Western Roman emperors could attest)
That’s a pretty heavy chunk of change in places where the median yearly income comes out to about 39k/year. Somewhere between 35-50k is pretty common in small towns. If Tesla is really gonna capture the market, they need a good economy class car.
Lexicus
Deity
I guess it's a difference of perspective. "It's" right in front of our faces, but "it" is the fact that Elon Musk does basically nothing of value. He is really good at pretending to be an inventor and capturing value from work that other people do though.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
If it wouldn’t happen without him, and he’s not a gatekeeper, that leaves one explanation.
Lexicus
Deity
It would happen without him
Joij21
🔥Deny, Defend, Depose!🔥
Well yes, but no, but also yes.
Just call Errol Musk. He thinks Elon sucks compared to his brother.
Just call Errol Musk. He thinks Elon sucks compared to his brother.
Narz
keeping it real
Let him put humans on the moon 1st, it's 1,000x closer.
No one will be living on Mars in my lifetime, it's fanciful to think otherwise
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
The moon is a far more useful place to set up a base to start colonizing the solar system anyway.
Also may need to invest in a space elevator or a skyhook!
racha
Prince
SpaceX won't go to the moon unless it's directly going to help them get to Mars. My limited understanding (the commenters on Ars Technica are way smarter than me and some are literally rocket scientists) is that there's a lot less scientific value in establishing a moon colony versus one on Mars.
He’s an obnoxious, dishonest, overrated, putz (which I’ve been calling since long before it became popular to do so)… but fraudster? Nah, not really.
Definitely not the entire tech industry. Hacker News (of ycombinator) has been pretty bearish on self-driving cars from the start, calling out the optimistic timelines as fantasy.
Tech companies/people that don’t believe in autonomous cars don’t make the news because they don’t put money in it or talk about it.
Definitely not the entire tech industry. Hacker News (of ycombinator) has been pretty bearish on self-driving cars from the start, calling out the optimistic timelines as fantasy.
Tech companies/people that don’t believe in autonomous cars don’t make the news because they don’t put money in it or talk about it.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
I don't understand how you could even think this. We only get what people actually do. The big car companies were never going to do it and no one else was pulling it off until, what, companies like Rivian studied Tesla as how to follow in their wake. There are so, so many points of failure that Tesla survived (in no small part because Musk can raise money and puts his own on the line).
Car entrepreneurship is 100000% known to be extremely difficult, they teach this in intro econ and they don't even mention it in business entrepreneurship classes as an option. It's considered an oligopoly almost purely for reasons that it's hard to do. That's not even a condition for oligopoly! Especially hard starting in the USA where there are regulations (easier for foreign car companies to start making little vehicles with state money and work up to low quality vehicles decades later. Even that rarely leads to viable USA legal vehicles).
There's a million car startups even by entrepreneurs with track records of making some headway that you've never heard of because they never make it. The DeLorean was remake of the Bricklin SV-1 and Malcolm Bricklin is still out there trying to make electric cars, and still can't get it off the ground.
Lexicus
Deity
Because I don't subscribe to Great Man theory and recognize that producing Teslas requires valuable contributions from a lot of different people, not just one guy.
I guess in general, "car entrepreneurship" doesn't impress me because cars are a mode of transportation that can only be dominant because car drivers can externalize the real costs of using cars onto people who have no recourse. Electric cars don't solve this fundamental problem and they make some aspects of it worse than ICE cars even as they buy us climate change time.
Also, Elon Musk pretends he invented Paypal but he just bought it. I have nearly as low an opinion of Elon Musk as of Trump.
Thomas Edison
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
If you truly believe everyone is so equal in their ability to create, you have a moral obligation to do what you think Musk does not.
If you could mindlessly pay people to create excellence, then mediocrity wouldn't exist.
Nothing happens until people do things. People want things and wait for others. People imagine things and then go, oh well, got bills to pay. Private market underinvests, we get what we get. There might be a trend line but there is no inevitability. The trend line is the sum of all existent things contributing which, lucky for you, happens whether you subscribe to a theory or not.
There isn't path, and most people don't have the sum of traits to needed to see any of this through. We are at the whims of what any and all of us can muster. If you think we are so equal, you must go and do it. Sleep 3 hours a day while keeping your focus exactly on what is going to work and never for a second what won't, and acting on that focus without any errors that would ripple into the failure at any of the vulnerabilities.
Hm, I wasn't aware that a few friends here have a very high opinion of Musk (Hygro, GenMarshall etc). I wouldn't wish to have the thread be a battlefield at all ^_^
Musk does try, often, to get involved in fields he clearly does not understand. An example from this year would be his claim that his companies are working on an "interface" that will increase human control of the mind, for which claim he was promptly ridiculed by prominent neuroscientists.
Some argue that his frequent extravagant claims serve only the purpose of (other than the usual hype) diverting attention from lack of delivering on promises. I am not really interested in Musk, but since he is going to court for the Twitter contract affair, there may be developments of note pending => being forced to pay 45 billion, let alone for something you didn't honestly want, is something no one can take without a hit.
Musk does try, often, to get involved in fields he clearly does not understand. An example from this year would be his claim that his companies are working on an "interface" that will increase human control of the mind, for which claim he was promptly ridiculed by prominent neuroscientists.
Some argue that his frequent extravagant claims serve only the purpose of (other than the usual hype) diverting attention from lack of delivering on promises. I am not really interested in Musk, but since he is going to court for the Twitter contract affair, there may be developments of note pending => being forced to pay 45 billion, let alone for something you didn't honestly want, is something no one can take without a hit.
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