Is the term "r*****k" offensive?

[Formaldehyde]

What group? I said "the whites the term is used to describe"... Are you claiming that you don't use the term to describe the whites the term is used to describe, because if you are then who could you possibly be using it to describe? Who else is there?

Does referring to someone as a racist or a bigot when they clearly are degrade or oppress them?

You're changing the subject. I am not talking about banning anything. Moreover, no term whatsoever has been "banned." l

The n- word is most certainly banned in this country when used by whites for the most part, albeit unofficially due to political correctness.

I was making the very specific points that

1. there is more than one term that people should avoid using
2. there can be slurs against white people that should be avoided as well

All use of slurs should be avoided unless you want to use them as a slur. I think that is obvious.

 

[NovaKart]

Are you saying the word redneck in the south is primarily used just to refer to a racist/bigot?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Yup. Ironically, the only time you really hear it used in its original meaning is when an affluent racist/bigot uses it. But it is also not considered to be PC anymore, so you no longer hear it used that way much even by them.

 

[NovaKart]

Yup. Ironically, the only time you really hear it used in its original meaning is when an affluent racist/bigot uses it. But it is also not considered to be PC anymore, so you no longer hear it used that way much even by them.

I'm from the south and my experience here is totally different. I almost always hear it used with its original meaning and not just by affluent people. People I know who could be described as redneck will use it to describe people who are even more redneck than them.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If I want someone to lose their mind, I'll use whatever lose-your-mind word I think will work. I do not think this one is a widely effective one though, at least where I live.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Like that dreadful term 'white trash' or 'trailer trash'. I was horrified that people openly used such terms, even polite people will still use the term 'trashy' to reference the term without using it. The kind of relationship it suggests that people have with each other is a sign of a very unhealthy society with very little communal or cultural solidarity. I guess the reason poor southerners use these terms is the same reason they vote against a civilized health care system.

 

[NovaKart]

I grew up in Kentucky and my parents are from Appalachia. No matter how poor and trashy you were, there was usually someone poorer and trashier. They were not shy to call people redneck or trash.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Yeah, that's typical but it is still terrible. Self-wounding self-hatred produced by economic marginalization and outside domination. Can you imagine Jews, French, Chinese, saying 'oh look we are now richer, look at the Jew/French/Chinese/trash now below us'.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yeah, that's typical but it is still terrible. Self-wounding self-hatred produced by economic marginalization and outside domination. Can you imagine Jews, French, Chinese, saying 'oh look we are now richer, look at the Jew/French/Chinese/trash now below us'.

Frankly, yes, I can imagine that. It isn't even challenging.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I don't know what this point has to do with anything I've said.

Is there some reason you're being deliberately obtuse about this, or are you just rude to everybody?

Yeah. Most world maps make out that Greenland is the size of Africa, when actually its about the size of Algeria. Such are the problems or representing even basic info on maps! I think this one is a mostly very plausible map, evidently many senior US journalists think so too. Maybe you should email the creator and he might consider your comments.

Stop being condescending. This map is ridiculous, and I do not give a damn what "senior US journalists" think, if they're this geographically challenged.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Is there some reason you're being deliberately obtuse about this, or are you just rude to everybody?


Stop being condescending. This map is ridiculous, and I do not give a damn what "senior US journalists" think, if they're this geographically challenged.

My goodness, you have some chutzpah talking to others about rudeness. And no, not being obtuse, just don't see the relevance of what you said. If I did I would response accordingly, it would save time if nothing else.

Frankly, yes, I can imagine that. It isn't even challenging.

Can you imagine cringing when you hear your father's accent? As a Californian (maybe I got the wrong idea), can you imagine a wave of self-loathing as your mother says 'dude, get up' when a proper person should say...I don't know ... 'rise human'? Looking at sneakers or skateboards and thinking 'that's for trash...proper people wear clogs and ride unicycles'.

 

[NovaKart]

Yeah, that's typical but it is still terrible. Self-wounding self-hatred produced by economic marginalization and outside domination. Can you imagine Jews, French, Chinese, saying 'oh look we are now richer, look at the Jew/French/Chinese/trash now below us'.

Well, Appalachian people don't really consider ourselves to be an ethnic group even if academically that might qualify or maybe you're talking about southerners but same thing.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Well, Appalachian people don't really consider ourselves to be an ethnic group even if academically that might qualify or maybe you're talking about southerners but same thing.

I've recognized this many times. This is part of the oppression...I know that probably sounds strange and perhaps even comical, but part of being oppressed is lack of any ability to achieve a coherent ideological basis of resistance.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I'm from the south and my experience here is totally different. I almost always hear it used with its original meaning and not just by affluent people. People I know who could be described as redneck will use it to describe people who are even more redneck than them.

I certainly can't speak for everybody in the South, just from my own experiences living in fairly affluent suburban areas.

I grew up in Kentucky and my parents are from Appalachia. No matter how poor and trashy you were, there was usually someone poorer and trashier. They were not shy to call people redneck or trash.

I'm referring more to how it currently is. And many people wouldn't even consider Kentucky to be part of the South, particularly Kentuckians themselves.

Things have certainly changed a lot and they continue to do so. I used to hear the term "redneck" a lot more when I was growing up, and it was used to refer to white farm workers instead of bigots and racists. But back then the bigots and racists were likely a sizable majority of the whites in much of the South.

Well, Appalachian people don't really consider ourselves to be an ethnic group even if academically that might qualify or maybe you're talking about southerners but same thing.

What are you supposed to know compared to Europeans who have apparently never even visited there?

My guess is that they are so used to ethnic oppression where they live that they think it must exist everywhere, even if they have to make up entirely new ethnic groups based on culture alone to try to show it.

Perhaps someday the Beverly Hillbillies will be banned from TV because it disparages an ethnic group.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Can you imagine cringing when you hear your father's accent? As a Californian (maybe I got the wrong idea), can you imagine a wave of self-loathing as your mother says 'dude, get up' when a proper person should say...I don't know ... 'rise human'? Looking at sneakers or skateboards and thinking 'that's for trash...proper people wear clogs and ride unicycles'.

Dude, my loathing was properly targeted. When my dad griped about how we should put an O on the end of our name or claim that our California tans weren't from the sun but due to a ....... ancestor so that we could "get all the handouts that the ........ ....... and ......... get" I would cringe, but not because of his accent, and it was him that I loathed, not myself.

 

[NovaKart]

I'm referring more to how it currently is. And many people wouldn't even consider Kentucky to be part of the South, particularly Kentuckians themselves.

Things have certainly changed a lot and they continue to do so. I used to hear the term "redneck" a lot more when I was growing up, and it was used to refer to white farm workers instead of bigots and racists. But back then the bigots and racists were likely a sizable majority of the whites in much of the South.

Kentucky has all the negative redneck stereotypes that are applied to the south and then some and most Kentuckians do consider Kentucky to be southern. Besides, it's not like Kentucky is the only part of the south I'm familiar with, I lived in North Carolina for years. This idea that redneck is primarily used to describe bigots is really at odds with how most people would use the word.

What are you supposed to know compared to Europeans who have apparently never even visited there?

If its a purely academic distinction I think it relies more on theory than practical considerations.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Kentucky has all the negative redneck stereotypes that are applied to the south and then some and most Kentuckians do consider Kentucky to be southern. Besides, it's not like Kentucky is the only part of the south I'm familiar with, I lived in North Carolina for years. This idea that redneck is primarily used to describe bigots is really at odds with how most people would use the word.

We just discussed that in another thread. Kentucky seems to be fairly evenly split regarding whether it is a Southern state or not.

When did you live there? Again, things have changed a lot recently. I can't even think of the last time I heard a farm worker referred to as being a redneck. But it is occasionally used to describe bigots and racists who are still fighting the Civil War.

If its a purely academic distinction I think it relies more on theory than practical considerations.

It isn't a purely academic distinction which is apparently leading some Europeans into thinking that large segments of the non-Hispanic white American population are oppressed.

Besides, we have enough real oppression of ethnic groups to still resolve.

In related news:

Brave hero rips Confederate flag off redneck’s home

Phil Robertson slams Confederate flag, says it’s offensive when associated with ‘Rednecks’

The Enlightened Redneck: The Confederate Flag: A Symbol Of Idiocy

 

[NovaKart]

We just discussed that in another thread. Kentucky seems to be fairly evenly split regarding whether it is a Southern state or not.

This has to do with many Kentuckians considering Kentucky to be a bit distinct from the rest of the south and having a mix of cultures. They may not consider it to be southern in the same way Georgia or Mississippi are southern but you could say the same about Tennessee or Virginia or even North Carolina. People will just as readily describe Kentucky as redneck as they would Mississippi or Alabama and with the same stereotypes and many Kentuckians fit the stereotype so I feel pretty qualified to describe its typical usage since the debate on the usage of language is usually stuck with anecdotal experience.

When did you live there? Again, things have changed a lot recently. I can't even think of the last time I heard a farm worker referred to as being a redneck. But it is occasionally used to describe bigots and racists who are still fighting the Civil War.

I last lived there in 2003 but I'm in regular contact with people from there and visit there regularly and I doubt the meaning of the term has changed much. I'm going there again in a week so I'll ask people then.

Also, I don't think it normally describes a farm worker either. I think it describes a certain lifestyle, taste and fashion as well as speech patterns. I don't think any one of those things would qualify calling someone a redneck but taken together they do. In this sense it might be a bit like calling someone a hipster but it is tied to class and background while hipster is not.

It isn't a purely academic distinction which is apparently leading some Europeans into thinking that large segments of the non-Hispanic white American population are oppressed.

Besides, we have enough real oppression of ethnic groups to still resolve.

In related news:

Brave hero rips Confederate flag off redneck’s home

Phil Robertson slams Confederate flag, says it’s offensive when associated with ‘Rednecks’

The Enlightened Redneck: The Confederate Flag: A Symbol Of Idiocy

If its not academic what is it then?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Brave hero rips Confederate flag off redneck’s home

Well what a wonderfully unbiased little article that is I'll have to plead Someone's law on this one though.

Edit: Not Godwin, that other one. The one about not being able to tell if it's real or a parody.

 

[_random_]

We just discussed that in another thread. Kentucky seems to be fairly evenly split regarding whether it is a Southern state or not.

When did you live there? Again, things have changed a lot recently. I can't even think of the last time I heard a farm worker referred to as being a redneck. But it is occasionally used to describe bigots and racists who are still fighting the Civil War.

Where in the South do you live? And do you associate with a lot of farm workers?