Is the term "r*****k" offensive?

[MilesGregarius]

There is also a huge distinction between a farm owner and a farm worker who spends all day working in the fields, unless it is an extremely small farm. Those rarely exist anymore even though they were quite common when I was growing up.

That can indeed be chalked up to regional differences. New England farmers, when they still existed, were by and large small, independent freeholders working their own land - true rugged individualists unlike Western land barons or Southern plantation owners who had others work the land for the landowners' profit. In modern Pennsylvania, I associate "farmer" with the Amish or the Mennonites, who again, work the land that they own. There isn't the same dichotomy between "farm owner" and "farm worker," thus "redneck" doesn't carry the same negative connotations.

Going to high school in Boston, my lower-middle class and middle-class inner city Irish-American classmates would sometimes refer to me and my friends as "rednecks" or (more often) "hicks" even though none of us had any relation to farming and came from more moneyed backgrounds (most of our parents were professionals) than they did (their parents often being union tradesmen, cops, public utility workers, and the like) because we lived in "the sticks" - towns beyond 15 miles or so from the Dorchester neighborhood where the school was. Here, even the class assumptions of the term redneck breakdown (or are reversed) to simple geographical prejudices.

 

[Pangur Bán]

OED says the term 'red neck' is still used in the western and 'north midland' USA to refer to Irish people and to Catholics, though the latest example it cites is from 1948:

R. L. Tobin Golden Opinions 109 ‘Oysters!’ said Malloy. ‘A feast! Maybe I am too harsh with you, Murphy, even if you are a herring-snapping redneck.’

 

[Nares]

Is "r*****k" as offensive as the n word?

It should be, along with cracker and white trash.

Anything less is just perpetuating bigotry.

Would you call a person a "redneck" if they lived in the middle of a large city...?

That would be a cracker, and you'll readily hear it walking through parts of many urban centers across the US.

I was raised on a belief of tolerance for all. This kind of selective "tolerance" is just another form of bigotry.

 

[Formaldehyde]

That can indeed be chalked up to regional differences. New England farmers, when they still existed, were by and large small, independent freeholders working their own land - true rugged individualists unlike Western land barons or Southern plantation owners who had others work the land for the landowners' profit. In modern Pennsylvania, I associate "farmer" with the Amish or the Mennonites, who again, work the land that they own. There isn't the same dichotomy between "farm owner" and "farm worker," thus "redneck" doesn't carry the same negative connotations.

Going to high school in Boston, my lower-middle class and middle-class inner city Irish-American classmates would sometimes refer to me and my friends as "rednecks" or (more often) "hicks" even though none of us had any relation to farming and came from more moneyed backgrounds (most of our parents were professionals) than they did (their parents often being union tradesmen, cops, public utility workers, and the like) because we lived in "the sticks" - towns beyond 15 miles or so from the Dorchester neighborhood where the school was. Here, even the class assumptions of the term redneck breakdown (or are reversed) to simple geographical prejudices.

Sharecroppers and small farm owners were quite prevalent in the South until farming turned into a multi-million dollar endeavor, frequently done by massive corporation which put the old plantations to complete shame in regard to size.

I was watching an interesting TV show on the Amish farmers in Pennsylvania recently. Their biggest problem now is being able to afford multi-million dollar farms for all their sons. So they are turning to other occupations now instead. As a result they are becoming "assimilated" into American culture, instead of perpetuating their own.

 

[MilesGregarius]

Sharecroppers and small farm owners were quite prevalent in the South until farming turned into a multi-million dollar endeavor, frequently done by massive corporation which put the old plantations to complete shame in regard to size.

No doubt about the smallholders and sharecroppers, but in the south, the plantation owner defined who was "a gentleman" and, by extension who wasn't. Sharecroppers and hardscrabble small-time farmers, not being gentlemen, became rednecks. In New England, farming didn't have the same class stratification. Smallholders were themselves gentlemen, so a derogatory term like redneck never attached to them.

 

[Formaldehyde]

That is where the word originated. It described those who worked in the fields all day, and their unprotected necks became red as a result.

And, yes, it wasn't too difficult to infer that they were no Southern "gentlemen" who had slaves or poor whites to do such labor for them.

 

[Pangur Bán]

That's probably a folk etymology . More likely it comes from the red collars worn by Scottish Covenanters in the 17th century.

 

[Borachio]

Hmm.

Neither this:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=redneck,

nor this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck,

mention C17th covenantors.

Oh yes it does! I take it all back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck#Historical_Scottish_Covenanter_usage

It's still highly likely to refer to sun-burnt necks though, imo. I mean, why wouldn't it? Especially if you've a slightly ginger disposition.

It could be a case of plain convergence: and both etymologies are true.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Don't confuse the issue with documented facts.

 

[Pangur Bán]

It's still highly likely to refer to sun-burnt necks though, imo. I mean, why wouldn't it? Especially if you've a slightly ginger disposition.

It could be a case of plain convergence: and both etymologies are true.

It's a natural and very common type of folk etymology. Once you don't have convenanters, the ordinary person can't place the term and seeks a more natural explanation. I'm sure most people thought Whigs, another term for a similar group of people, thought they were called this because they wore wigs.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I should have specified in the OP that I my intention was to discuss the term as used/applied in the United States only.

While I am sure that the term might have widespread and diverse usage in other countries, there may also be extermely different history and motivations for that use, which was not really the focus of my interest. I was mainly intended to hear thoughts on the US usage of the term.

My fault, and my bad for not specifically stating this in the OP. I have edited the OP to correct my oversight.

Noted. So if I ever decide to start a thread about something Canadian that has an American equivalent or some other relation, you'll be kind enough to stay out of it, or only discuss it as it applies in Canada, to Canadians, I presume, and keep any pov based on your own country or personal experiences to yourself. After all, that's the message I'm getting here, loud and clear.

This is a forum with an international membership, and the U.S. isn't the center of the universe. Shocking idea, I realize, but it's true. I came to OT not only to learn about other places, but to share my own knowledge, experiences, and views, and naturally those will be at least partially from a Canadian point of view. So this exclusion is not sitting well. Way to go as far as contributing to OT as a more active place!

As Forma and I have just discussed, even within the US, it has different meanings in different regions. As a Northeasterner, I have to say Valka's Canadian take on it doesn't seem too odd.

Thank you. Is this term at least partially to do with an attitude or mindset in your area, rather than only about farmers or rural people in general? As for income... well, of course there are some farmers/rural people who are poor, some wealthy, and others somewhere inbetween.

It should be, along with cracker and white trash.

Anything less is just perpetuating bigotry.

That would be a cracker, and you'll readily hear it walking through parts of many urban centers across the US.

I was raised on a belief of tolerance for all. This kind of selective "tolerance" is just another form of bigotry.

Around here, the word "cracker" is something people eat, either with soup or, if one of the fancier varieties, as a snack. I've never heard it used as any sort of racial slur.

 

[MilesGregarius]

Thank you. Is this term at least partially to do with an attitude or mindset in your area, rather than only about farmers or rural people in general? As for income... well, of course there are some farmers/rural people who are poor, some wealthy, and others somewhere inbetween.

Mostly. The prototypical redneck is seen as uneducated and uncouth, small-minded and provincial, speaking grammatically challenged English and having VERY low-brow tastes. The less one displays these characteristics, the further one moves from being a redneck, though the exact threshold for being a redneck will vary depending on who's doing the labeling.

Being from western Pennsylvania, the archetypal redneck isn't even a farmer; West Virginia coal miners are seen as far more redneck than any farmers ever are.

 

[Gucumatz]

I certainly can't speak for everybody in the South, just from my own experiences living in fairly affluent suburban areas.

I'm referring more to how it currently is. And many people wouldn't even consider Kentucky to be part of the South, particularly Kentuckians themselves.

Things have certainly changed a lot and they continue to do so. I used to hear the term "redneck" a lot more when I was growing up, and it was used to refer to white farm workers instead of bigots and racists. But back then the bigots and racists were likely a sizable majority of the whites in much of the South.


What are you supposed to know compared to Europeans who have apparently never even visited there?

My guess is that they are so used to ethnic oppression where they live that they think it must exist everywhere, even if they have to make up entirely new ethnic groups based on culture alone to try to show it.

Perhaps someday the Beverly Hillbillies will be banned from TV because it disparages an ethnic group.

I live near Raleigh and I do hear people use the word redneck as a substitute for bigot - but I don't think thats the most common way the word is used. Overall though the word is more often than not used to reference background/class I feel though. When someone begins speaking in a particularly heavy accent, people will refer to them as rednecks. I have family in local schools here and I have heard stories from them joking about their local rednecks that go mudding or stuff like that

 

[Formaldehyde]

Around here, the word "cracker" is something people eat, either with soup or, if one of the fancier varieties, as a snack. I've never heard it used as any sort of racial slur.

It is primarily reserved for the South, although I have heard blacks use it to refer to whites in general. In fact, in Florida and Georgia it is often used as a positive term to describe locals.

 

[MilesGregarius]

I live near Raleigh and I do hear people use the word redneck as a substitute for bigot - but I don't think thats the most common way the word is used. Overall though the word is more often than not used to reference background/class I feel though. When someone begins speaking in a particularly heavy accent, people will refer to them as rednecks. I have family in local schools here and I have heard stories from them joking about their local rednecks that go mudding or stuff like that

"Redneck = bigot" is a recent development. Prior to the GOP's Southern Strategy, very few rednecks were visible politically; by definition, a redneck was too uneducated to even be aware of politics beyond, maybe, elections for county sheriff. Up until the 1980's, at least, it seems to have been almost strictly a class/regional term. It wasn't even necessarily racial as a black man who lived in a double-wide out in the sticks with an old Chevy up on blocks in the front yard, married to his 14-year-old 1st cousin would have been seen as a redneck in some places. Only since the rise of the know-nothing, angry white rural voting bloc to national prominence has redneck come to mean bigot.

 

[onejayhawk]

Around here, the word "cracker" is something people eat, either with soup or, if one of the fancier varieties, as a snack. I've never heard it used as any sort of racial slur.

Derivation is from whip cracker = hired foreman over slaves. Connotations are of poverty, yet a high handed manner and willingness to do violence. Since it has literally not been applicable for over a century, the heat has faded. During the 19th century it was a fighting insult.

In comparison, redneck merely means field worker.

J

 

[NovaKart]

Joining the Confederacy, having lots of memorials to the battle all over the state where whites still gather to think of what might have been, and much of the population still fighting the Civil War are typically considered to be pretty good signs.

Kentucky has quite a few ties to the confederacy without actually having joined it, besides Jefferson Davis being from Kentucky for one thing.

I certainly doubt that.

As I already stated, I'm just explaining how it is used from my own experiences just as you are.

But you are right that the term has been hijacked to mean any rural person. But that is only to embrace it as a badge of honor as exemplified in the videos above. It is ironic that it is now spreading on that basis to be used as a slur to an even wider group of people, especially outside the South.

What I have a hard time agreeing with is the exclusivity of the word as only or even primarily referring to bigoted people. I don't think that's the typical usage today. Many people do use it in a positive way like in the song redneck woman and the redneck games but plenty of people use it in a negative way as a class differentiation but its not usually seen as very harsh.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Derivation is from whip cracker = hired foreman over slaves. Connotations are of poverty, yet a high handed manner and willingness to do violence. Since it has literally not been applicable for over a century, the heat has faded. During the 19th century it was a fighting insult.

In comparison, redneck merely means field worker.

J

Hmmm...I first heard it in the 1970s and thought it came from us white folks being the color of saltines and equally bland and tasteless.

 

[onejayhawk]

Hmmm...I first heard it in the 1970s and thought it came from us white folks being the color of saltines and equally bland and tasteless.

It's a reference to sunburn on the neck. Hence someone white that works outside.

or did you mean cracker. Calling someone cracker could get you killed.

J

 

[Formaldehyde]

What I have a hard time agreeing with is the exclusivity of the word as only or even primarily referring to bigoted people.

Well good because I never stated that.

Many people do use it in a positive way like in the song redneck woman and the redneck games...

As I pointed out in the part you just quoted.