Is the term "r*****k" offensive?

[Formaldehyde]

This has to do with many Kentuckians considering Kentucky to be a bit distinct from the rest of the south and having a mix of cultures. They may not consider it to be southern in the same way Georgia or Mississippi are southern but you could say the same about Tennessee or Virginia or even North Carolina. People will just as readily describe Kentucky as redneck as they would Mississippi or Alabama and with the same stereotypes and many Kentuckians fit the stereotype so I feel pretty qualified to describe its typical usage since the debate on the usage of language is usually stuck with anecdotal experience.

No, those are all clearly Southern states which still identify that way. Even Virginia is still very proud of its Southern roots.

But I find it interesting that Kentuckians call each other rednecks instead of hillbillies, which is the usual slang of choice for the region. Perhaps that is why they use that word instead.

Also, I don't think it normally describes a farm worker either. I think it describes a certain lifestyle, taste and fashion as well as speech patterns. I don't think any one of those things would qualify calling someone a redneck but taken together they do. In this sense it might be a bit like calling someone a hipster but it is tied to class and background while hipster is not.

So it really is used entirely differently than it is in the South. Either it refers to a poor white farm worker who is out in the sun all day, or it refers to bigots and racists. There really isn't anybody else who is labeled that way.

If its not academic what is it then?

Labeling people from the Appalachian region as an ethnic group may very well an academic exercise, since I had never heard of it before this thread. But claiming they are oppressed isn't academic in the least. Did you feel oppressed while living there? I certainly didn't.

 

[Zkribbler]

Yeah, that's typical but it is still terrible. Self-wounding self-hatred produced by economic marginalization and outside domination. Can you imagine Jews, French, Chinese, saying 'oh look we are now richer, look at the Jew/French/Chinese/trash now below us'.

The word "k*k*" was invented by America's middle-class German Jews to refer to the impoverished Russia Jews flooding in to escape the pogroms. The German Jews were terrified that their hard-earned status of respectability would be eroded by the arrival of these unwashed throngs.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Well, that is one of the theories...

 

[Birdjaguar]

For some being "redneck" is just fine.


Link to video.


Link to video.

 

[NovaKart]

No, those are all clearly Southern states which still identify that way. Even Virginia is still very proud of its Southern roots.

What makes a sate clearly southern? If you put it to a poll like you're doing with Kentucky then not everyone considers those states to be southern either.

But I find it interesting that Kentuckians call each other rednecks instead of hillbillies, which is the usual slang of choice for the region. Perhaps that is why they use that word instead.

Both words are used interchangeably.

So it really is used entirely differently than it is in the South. Either it refers to a poor white farm worker who is out in the sun all day, or it refers to bigots and racists. There really isn't anybody else who is labeled that way.

No, you're the only one who has such a strict definition. I find it very hard to believe that even you really think this. Why are you so pedantic on this issue? The word is used much more widely than this. Are you so intent on proving a point that you're just abandoning all logic?

Labeling people the Appalachian region as an ethnic group may very well an academic exercise, since I had never heard of it before this thread. But claiming they are oppressed isn't academic in the least. Did you feel oppressed while living there? I certainly didn't.

No, that's why I said it's academic. I think people came up with this idea inside a classroom using their own definition of what constitutes an ethnic group. I don't believe it is propaganda however because I doubt anyone in Europe really has a ulterior motive in white Appalachians being an ethnic group.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

My goodness, you have some chutzpah talking to others about rudeness. And no, not being obtuse, just don't see the relevance of what you said. If I did I would response accordingly, it would save time if nothing else.

You're the being consistently rude to several people in this thread.

I entered this thread long before you did. In Post #15 I explained how the term "redneck" is used in Alberta - a province of Canada that is far away from anything that could be remotely considered one of the areas of the U.S. where the term is commonly used.

In the course of the discussion as other people posted, it becomes evident that the term is used in a different way in Canada than it is in regions such as Appalachia.

You entered the thread in Post #45. By Post #58 you started being rude to people.

In Post #60 you posted that ridiculous map made by some news reporter who thinks there are no aboriginal/First Nations people living in most of Western Canada, no non-aboriginal/First Nations people living in northern Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, or the Territories. Somehow you think this reporter's nonsensical map is more accurate than the observations of people who actually live here.

Skip over numerous other posts where your rudeness to people just never quits, and now you're accusing me of being rude? You insult everyone who doesn't agree with you with condescending put-downs, saying the post isn't "relevant" to what you said, or openly insulting the poster's intelligence/grasp of the subject. YOUR position is the only that matters, right? Nobody else's positions could ever be right, and the world works according to you and some crazy bunch of people who appear to think that we have some kind of ethnic segregation thing going on in Canada where Natives and non-Natives never mix.

 

[trader/warrior]

I wouldn't typically find the term offensive. Maybe if used in a harsh way towards me I might find it mildly offensive, but that's not exactly likely to happen.

But then I might say that I hear the n-word even more often used in a non-offensive way in music and media, does that mean it is a largely inoffensive term?

Lots of things can be offensive to someone. Context is everything. In the case in the OP the term does seem to have been used in a denigrating way. Does that make it "akin to a white person who directed the N-word toward three black commissioners"? Well no because the N-word used in that way has a very specific context and history that is quite different from the term "redneck". "Redneck" does reinforce negative stereotypes towards certain groups, so it's not exactly a beneficient term to use, but the same could be said for lots of words that are nowhere near the offensiveness of the N-word in most contexts.

 

[Borachio]

Link to video.

Oooh. Chavsters!


Link to video.

 

[Formaldehyde]

What makes a sate clearly southern? If you put it to a poll like you're doing with Kentucky then not everyone considers those states to be southern either.

Joining the Confederacy, having lots of memorials to the battle all over the state where whites still gather to think of what might have been, and much of the population still fighting the Civil War are typically considered to be pretty good signs.

No, you're the only one who has such a strict definition.

I certainly doubt that.

As I already stated, I'm just explaining how it is used from my own experiences just as you are.

But you are right that the term has been hijacked to mean any rural person. But that is only to embrace it as a badge of honor as exemplified in the videos above. It is ironic that it is now spreading on that basis to be used as a slur to an even wider group of people, especially outside the South.

 

[MilesGregarius]

Joining the Confederacy, having lots of memorials to the battle all over the state where whites still gather to think of what might have been, and much of the population still fighting the Civil War are typically considered to be pretty good signs.

Kentucky is its own weird case.

Kentucky is a border state that never joined the confederacy; 90,000 Kentuckians volunteered for the Union army, nearly triple the number that fought for the rebellion. Today Kentucky has 2 Union monuments and 72 Confederate monuments.

I grew up in Pennsylvania (aka, Pennsyltucky) and New England. In both those places, "redneck" wasn't seen as particularly offensive - perhaps a shade or two harsher than "hick." Nor was it perceived as referring primarily to Southerners or folks from the Appalachians; many Bostonians think New Hampshire first when they think redneck. It was mainly perceived as a reference to lower-class rural white folk. Farmers wouldn't even be included generally as being a farmer implies land ownership, productive economic activity, and and the education and intellect to manage both. "Redneck" usually implied the white rural equivalent of "welfare moms" - uneducated, unproductive, and uncouth. "Po' white trash" in Southern parlance. It didn't even have any particular political overtones beyond the assumption that rednecks be pro-gun, anti-intellectual, and (mildly) anti-gub'mint.

 

[Pangur Bán]

I entered this thread long before you did. In Post #15 I explained how the term "redneck" is used in Alberta - a province of Canada that is far away from anything that could be remotely considered one of the areas of the U.S. where the term is commonly used.

In the course of the discussion as other people posted, it becomes evident that the term is used in a different way in Canada than it is in regions such as Appalachia.

You entered the thread in Post #45. By Post #58 you started being rude to people.

In Post #60 you posted that ridiculous map made by some news reporter who thinks there are no aboriginal/First Nations people living in most of Western Canada, no non-aboriginal/First Nations people living in northern Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, or the Territories. Somehow you think this reporter's nonsensical map is more accurate than the observations of people who actually live here.

Skip over numerous other posts where your rudeness to people just never quits, and now you're accusing me of being rude? You insult everyone who doesn't agree with you with condescending put-downs, saying the post isn't "relevant" to what you said, or openly insulting the poster's intelligence/grasp of the subject. YOUR position is the only that matters, right? Nobody else's positions could ever be right, and the world works according to you and some crazy bunch of people who appear to think that we have some kind of ethnic segregation thing going on in Canada where Natives and non-Natives never mix.

An accusation of rudeness is itself possible rudeness. I am one of the people who dislikes the habitual rudeness on this forum in general, but I dislike even more when people don't listen and try to persist in engaging in arguments that are over their head. If it is true that I was being unnecessarily rude, which I don't accept, you wouldn't be the person to say it, because of your own rudeness. You need to have a certain platform of moral superiority to have that role and expect to be effective. You yourself burst into the thread shrieking to me 'Did you miss the part of the thread where I referred to Alberta' when I wasn't even talking to you, and throwing lots of insults against a map the purpose of which you didn't even understand (and judging from this post, still don't understand).

Your point about Alberta that you insist of going on about has, as far as I can see, absolutely nothing to do with any argument I have made. If I were to guess at your perception of its relevance, you probably think I think the word has only one usage in one place--but that is of course wrong, and I've never made such a claim.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

An accusation of rudeness is itself possible rudeness.

No, it's just pointing out that you've been rude. The word you're looking for is "trolling," which I did not accuse you of doing.

I am one of the people who dislikes the habitual rudeness on this forum in general...

I did a search of your posts in this thread; shall I list every single instance of where you've been rude to someone? There are quite a lot. So you should understand my skepticism that you "dislike the habitual rudeness on this forum."

I joined this thread 30 posts before you did, and pointed out that the term "redneck" is not an exclusively American one, it's also used in Canada, and has a different meaning from some I've seen discussed here that are referring to various areas of the U.S.

...throwing lots of insults against a map the purpose of which you didn't even understand (and judging from this post, still don't understand).

I insult the map because the map is an insult to the country in which I live.

I never made any claims of how accurate it may or may not be concerning the U.S. I don't live there, and I'm not knowledgeable about the various regions and their cultures. But do not try to tell me that there are no First Nations people in most of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and British Columbia.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I grew up in Pennsylvania (aka, Pennsyltucky) and New England. In both those places, "redneck" wasn't seen as particularly offensive - perhaps a shade or two harsher than "hick." Nor was it perceived as referring primarily to Southerners or folks from the Appalachians; many Bostonians think New Hampshire first when they think redneck. It was mainly perceived as a reference to lower-class rural white folk. Farmers wouldn't even be included generally as being a farmer implies land ownership, productive economic activity, and and the education and intellect to manage both. "Redneck" usually implied the white rural equivalent of "welfare moms" - uneducated, unproductive, and uncouth. "Po' white trash" in Southern parlance. It didn't even have any particular political overtones beyond the assumption that rednecks be pro-gun, anti-intellectual, and (mildly) anti-gub'mint.

That reinforces the notion there is a lot of regional variation in the use of the word. But in the South a strong majority is "pro-gun, anti-intellectual, and (mildly) anti-gub'mint" so it wouldn't make much sense for the pot to be calling the kettle black.

There is also a huge distinction between a farm owner and a farm worker who spends all day working in the fields, unless it is an extremely small farm. Those rarely exist anymore even though they were quite common when I was growing up.

And you are right. The term "white trash" or "cracker" is usually used as a slur of the poor who live in a rural environment in the South.

 

[Pangur Bán]

No, it's just pointing out that you've been rude. The word you're looking for is "trolling," which I did not accuse you of doing.


I did a search of your posts in this thread; shall I list every single instance of where you've been rude to someone? There are quite a lot. So you should understand my skepticism that you "dislike the habitual rudeness on this forum."

I joined this thread 30 posts before you did, and pointed out that the term "redneck" is not an exclusively American one, it's also used in Canada, and has a different meaning from some I've seen discussed here that are referring to various areas of the U.S.


I insult the map because the map is an insult to the country in which I live.

I never made any claims of how accurate it may or may not be concerning the U.S. I don't live there, and I'm not knowledgeable about the various regions and their cultures. But do not try to tell me that there are no First Nations people in most of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and British Columbia.

I'm sure writing all this made you feel good, but it has contributed nothing to the discussion with me. Hope you didn't have anything better to do.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I'm sure writing all this made you feel good, but it has contributed nothing to the discussion with me. Hope you didn't have anything better to do.

I should have specified in the OP that I my intention was to discuss the term as used/applied in the United States only.

While I am sure that the term might have widespread and diverse usage in other countries, there may also be extermely different history and motivations for that use, which was not really the focus of my interest. I was mainly intended to hear thoughts on the US usage of the term.

My fault, and my bad for not specifically stating this in the OP. I have edited the OP to correct my oversight.

 

[Formaldehyde]

What possible difference does it make to discuss how Canadians use it as well?

 

[Sommerswerd]

What possible difference does it make to discuss how Canadians use it as well?

None, which is exactly my point. I said:

While I am sure that the term might have widespread and diverse usage in other countries, there may also be extermely different history and motivations for that use, which was not really the focus of my interest. I was mainly intended to hear thoughts on the US usage of the term.

So I am just saying that it was not relevant to my question in the OP. I am not telling people not to discuss it, or that its off-topic. I am just stating clearly that for me, discussing US use (as opposed to non-US use) was the reason I started the thread. I don't ever mind or oppose tangential discussions (as I have stated repeatedly elsewhere).

 

[MilesGregarius]

As Forma and I have just discussed, even within the US, it has different meanings in different regions. As a Northeasterner, I have to say Valka's Canadian take on it doesn't seem too odd.

 

[Pangur Bán]

For historical clarification, 'red neck' does originate as an ethnic slur. It is still an ethnic slur, but has come also to be used as a generic slur of affinity, as a term for rural people or right-wing conservatives in North America even beyond any particular cultural group. It is used in that way because groups other than 18th century Englishmen and English Americans have come to internalize that cultural group's view of some outsiders, so much so that even those target groups themselves have internalized it.

The term originates as a derogatory Anglo term for Scottish and Irish Presbyterians and Catholics...i.e. not episcopalian WASPS. In the US south Anglo types used it to refer to these groups and others it regarded as similar, the 'Greater Appalachians' or, if you don't like the term, the 'working class South and mountainmen', who collectively are distinct and unified enough to be classified by ethnologists as an ethnic group, one that formed inside US territory in the 18th and 19th century from people of, among other ancestry groups, northern English, Scottish, Irish, German, and African emigrants. The term 'redneck' is still used in parts of the former British Empire as a derogatory term for Catholics.

 

[Formaldehyde]

As Forma and I have just discussed, even within the US, it has different meanings in different regions. As a Northeasterner, I have to say Valka's Canadian take on it doesn't seem too odd.

Not at all. Don't bend to the silly attempts at censorship from a single individual.