IS

[NovaKart]

Please tell us more.

The first thing I saw was a group of teenagers throwing rocks at a bank and I noticed everything was closed. They had some flags/banners but nothing written. They continued down the street and lots of people watching.

Later when I got back to the hotel I saw outside the police were spraying tear gas from armored cars while people were throwing rocks at them. Later they were shooting fireworks , they have like something they use to shoot them from the hand, like a hand device. I heard they set some cars on fire too and a couple times I saw them throw objects on fire and smoking bottles.

This went on for 4 days with everything closed. Every day towards the end riot police came out with gas masks, shields and they went after he protestors. At one point I saw one of them fire a gun at a protestor but he was out of my vision.

This was just what I saw from the street I was on so not sure what happene elsewhere and this was only in this city. I think it was worse in others.

Finally this morning I got a taxi to the bus station even though people kept telling me it was closed. I need to get back to Iraq where it's safe and I have to work on Sunday.

 

[Borachio]

I think NATO should probably try to force Turkey to get involved by invoking the collective defense clause of NATO. While no NATO member has actually been attacked by ISIS yet, I think there is still a strong enough case to be made to allow the invocation of that clause. Doing so would put Turkey in the position of either joining the fight or being booted out of NATO.

Bottom line: We need Turkey to get into the fight, and I think NATO needs to do everything in their power to force them into it. It is also in Turkey's best interest to get into the fight now, because if ISIS succeeds in Syria, how long does the Turkish government think it will be before ISIS starts causing trouble within their own borders.

How can Turkey get involved in Syria without a clear mandate from the UN?

To do so would be an illegal act of aggression, wouldn't it?

 

[EgonSpengler]

How can Turkey get involved in Syria without a clear mandate from the UN?

To do so would be an illegal act of aggression, wouldn't it?

Not only does Turkey have such a mandate, the UN is almost literally begging them to do something.

UN envoy: ISIS could massacre 500 trapped in Kobani
John Heilprin, Associated Press 8:54 a.m. EDT October 10, 2014

GENEVA, Switzerland – The United Nations envoy to Syria warned today that at least 500 civilians trapped in the Syrian Kurdish border town of Kobani were likely "be massacred" if the town falls to the Islamic State.

[...]

De Mistura appealed to Turkish authorities to allow volunteers and equipment to flow into the town and help its Syrian Kurdish defenders. Without more such help, he added, Kobani is "likely to fall."

[cont.]

 

[Gucumatz]

There are also another 12k refugees in the area of Kobani that haven't completely fled into Turkey yet

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Not only does Turkey have such a mandate, the UN is almost literally begging them to do something.

They are in the process of solving their Kurd problem.

 

[Commodore]

How can Turkey get involved in Syria without a clear mandate from the UN?

To do so would be an illegal act of aggression, wouldn't it?

Actually all they would really need is for Syria to ask for military aid and then it would all be legal. Now this next statement is purely my opinion, but I think if NATO invokes the collective defense clause of the treaty then Turkey can piggyback on any mandate for military action that any of the NATO members have already obtained instead of having to obtain their own mandate to send troops into Syria.

 

[Borachio]

Who in Syria is going to ask for help? Assad's clearly not going to, since Turkey wants to see him toppled. ISIS aren't. That leaves us with the FSA. And we haven't heard much from them for quite some time. And even if they asked for Turkey's "help", that really would be a move of highly dubious legality, imo.

And I see what you mean about Turkey piggy-backing on NATO's military action. This would be fine, if NATO wasn't noted for taking action contrary to international law all the time.

Yet I guess Turkey could get away with it. If they wanted to. Doesn't it make more sense for them to sit back and hope that the Kurds and ISIS significantly weaken each other first?

 

[Commodore]

Who in Syria is going to ask for help? Assad's clearly not going to, since Turkey wants to see him toppled. ISIS aren't. That leaves us with the FSA. And we haven't heard much from them for quite some time. And even if they asked for Turkey's "help", that really would be a move of highly dubious legality, imo.

And I see what you mean about Turkey piggy-backing on NATO's military action. This would be fine, if NATO wasn't noted for taking action contrary to international law all the time.

Yet I guess Turkey could get away with it. If they wanted to. Doesn't it make more sense for them to sit back and hope that the Kurds and ISIS significantly weaken each other first?

You are correct in all of this. The scenario I am referring to makes the assumption that all the powers involved are actually going to set aside their own selfish interests for a few moments to deal with a common threat. Obviously this isn't going to happen though, since everyone looking out for their own interests is what allowed ISIS to gain so much momentum in the first place.

 

[kramerfan86]

Actually all they would really need is for Syria to ask for military aid and then it would all be legal. Now this next statement is purely my opinion, but I think if NATO invokes the collective defense clause of the treaty then Turkey can piggyback on any mandate for military action that any of the NATO members have already obtained instead of having to obtain their own mandate to send troops into Syria.

ISIS needs to do something stupid like accidentally attack Turkey or pull off an intentional foreign attack before NATO can legitimately proclaim collective defense.

 

[Kyriakos]

I don't think that the current government of Anatolia and some Thrace ( ) wants to see massive numbers of Nato troops in its eastern half, particularly if it is going to be a high-profile campaign, cause from the reports given (including those by NovaKart who is there currently) there is a very notable state of flux and demonstrations by the Kurdish majority in that region, who will make regional autonomy come about faster as another issue for the most serene, stable, secular and democratic republic of Turkey

Not that i am saying that to make anyone see red or apples and trees. The galactic fleet has parked around the corner from the nice prelude to the fireballs in the southern Black sea, around the time that the first Anglo-Sikh war had failed to teach the smarties to look over their shoulder more.

 

[GamezRule]

How can Turkey get involved in Syria without a clear mandate from the UN?

To do so would be an illegal act of aggression, wouldn't it?

Since when do we care about the UN?

 

[Agent327]

While Syria hasn't asked anyone for help (which would clearly be an admission of its current weakness), it has expressed a 'no objection' to anyone attacking IS.

I don't think that the current government of Anatolia and some Thrace ( ) wants to see massive numbers of Nato troops in its eastern half, particularly if it is going to be a high-profile campaign, cause from the reports given (including those by NovaKart who is there currently) there is a very notable state of flux and demonstrations by the Kurdish majority in that region, who will make regional autonomy come about faster as another issue for the most serene, stable, secular and democratic republic of Turkey

NATO already has 24 military bases in Turkey.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/nato-s-eastern-anchor-24-nato-bases-in-turkey/23205

 

[NovaKart]

These are some photos from the protests. I only got a few photos and it was actually a lot worse than this.

 

[Agent327]

I'm sure it was, but these photos only show police.

 

[KMRblue1027]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-within-8-miles-of-baghdad-airport-and-armed-with-manpads/

ISIL is basically outside Baghdad at this point. Also got confirmation on what was previously suspected that they secured a large cache of Chinese made MANPADs (IIRC having an effective range of 3-4 miles).

 

[NovaKart]

Sometimes it was hard to get good photos of the demonstrations because photography was not exactly welcome. This photo is from around the start of the protests and this guy was trying to break the glass of the bank.

 

[r16]

any protest like this always "likes" the banks . Something like the equivalent of 1.5 million USD has been burned or taken from ATMs . Not a Kurdish thing , too . A few years back the kinda Nationalists looted a supermarket in my city for the owners' supposed links to the seperatists and the loot targeted especially on foreign brand alcohol products and cigarettes .

after months of how ISIL was undefeatable unless bombed in Syria the glorious America now tells the schwerpunkt must be in Iraq . ı believe this is some kind of insult on the sensibilities instead of Pentagon full of jerks and fools . Or such a "low" quality readily insults us otherwise , we stuck with this kind of moronliness since 1990 . The siege of Ayn-al-Arab goes on with so many apparent jabs at Turkey , at least on Al Crusading - the only English language "big name" on the Turkish satellite sets . And many thanks to Kyriakos for his keen observations ; and on Al Crusading they had a smiling CIA analyst , all smiles , declaring the game had begun .

can not be helped , right ?

as for NATO and stuff today's newspapers have some rant from some Danish MP . Apparently there was a Jiihadist who apparently planned to attack Danemark during the caricature events and he was incarcerated in Turkey , Danish authorities wanted extradition (if that's the term) and the Jihadist was released during the exchange of 49 captives with ISIL . So the Danish MP wants Turkey kicked out of Turkey NATO . Now that the trouble seems assured and it will be nice fun to watch Turkey burn . Dear MP , please remember the dude who claimed to be the NATO secretary general and went around as a fine example of some braggart and was the Danish PM before that . Yep , that dude started the caricature crisis to look tough in the face of the coming thread ; that's how he "became" NATO's finest with full support from Dabya who at the same time also secured the use of mine sniffing monkeys from Morocco and hence kinda "lonely" in combatting the Islam and stuff . Oh yeah , the glorious Dane to the rescue . ı always say he should have broken his neck in Istanbul when here for a Summit meeting , instead of dislocating his shoulder . So , dear MP be my guest , kick us out of NATO .

 

[Agent327]

Sometimes it was hard to get good photos of the demonstrations because photography was not exactly welcome. This photo is from around the start of the protests and this guy was trying to break the glass of the bank.

Sounds more like rioting than demonstration. Looks more like rioting as well. Rioters generally don't like being photographed, demonstrators generally welcome it.

 

[Tigranes]

If r16 to be believed ATMs were looted. Demonstrators become criminals by such actions. This is hurting Kurdish cause and ultimately is a win for current Turkish government and IS.

 

[classical_hero]

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Photographs-of-Kurdish-fighters-bodies-suggest-chemical-weapons-use-by-ISIS-378644
This is very dangerous if proven correct that IS has its hands on chemical weapons based on a report by Middle East Review of international Affairs.

Kurdish activists had previously claimed that the chemical attack occurred on July 12, in the village of Avdiko in Kobani. According to health minister of the Kurdish authority in Kobani, Nisan Ahmed, the bodies of three Kurdish fighters killed in battles with IS were not damaged by bullets, but instead were marked by "burns and white spots...without any visible wounds or external bleeding.”

The MERIA Journal on Sunday published a number of photographs of the three Kurdish fighters, quoting expert Israeli sources as saying they appear to suggest that a chemical agent, likely mustard, was used. The experts added, however, that further information was needed to conclusively say that the fighters died from a chemical attack.