IS

[Natan35]

I don't understand it either. I mean there are a lot of reasons why they may not like Israel but I don't understand the extreme preoccupation with it.

Its like asking "what Russia has against the US?"
Israel and Iran are, the two regional powers. Israel doesn't like Iran for trying to get nuclear weapons, Iran doesn't like Israel for standing in its way. Its simple.
(That's how i get it.)

 

[Tahuti]

Its like asking "what Russia has against the US?"
Israel and Iran are, the two regional powers. Israel doesn't like Iran for trying to get nuclear weapons, Iran doesn't like Israel for standing in its way. Its simple.
(That's how i get it.)

I thought Israel feared Iran would use nukes against it. (Which is a rather odd fear, despite Iran's official rethoric, since many Islamic holy sites are actually in Israel)

Actually, it is very odd how so-called peace lovers have problems with Israeli policies against Palestinian terrorism, which I find more than justified, but those very same people - save for die-hard haters - seem to support actions against Iran, which includes many Arab countries. Of course, you could reason that Iran is a bigger country, however, it has never directly attacked Israel to the best of my knowledge. If I were Iran, I probably would find that a dumb idea as well.

 

[kramerfan86]

I am not the greatest fan of Iran, but this comparison seems very outrageous to me. I can speak for Armenians, many of whom, I admit, left Iran after the Islamic Revolution, but were never kidnapped, murdered, or saw their churches burned -- in the way IS treats their Christians. Iran is Armenia's one of the most important partners in the region surrounded by hostile Turkish nations. It is important to remember that it was Iraq who attacked Iran, after revolution, not the other way around.

Rhetoric like ISIS=Iran are why its hard to take Bibi seriously. Iran has some flaws from a freedom standpoint, absolutely no doubt, but its pretty clear to anyone with a brain looking at the two that Iran is a much much much more civilized country than ISIS is.

 

[Borachio]

I'd have thought that ISIS=Saudi Arabia is closer to the mark. But even then it's not all that close.

 

[Tahuti]

I'd have thought that ISIS=Saudi Arabia is closer to the mark.

Yes. Quite actually. The Saudis may have actually supported them. At least any pointers suggesting they did have far more credibility than the classical conspiracy theorist position.

 

[Tigranes]

Its like asking "what Russia has against the US?"
Israel and Iran are, the two regional powers. Israel doesn't like Iran for trying to get nuclear weapons, Iran doesn't like Israel for standing in its way. Its simple.
(That's how i get it.)

Wait. Israel has nuclear weapon already (though they deny it). One feels animosity and then thinks about weapons, not the other way around. So why this crazy mutual hate? There are many regional powers: Saudis, Turkey, Russia, even Sunni Pakistan. According to Le Figaro, on 5 June 2010, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia told Hervé Morin, then Defense Minister of France that: "There are two countries in the world that do not deserve to exist: Iran and Israel." If I am a pragmatic Shia Iranian -- I would be worried about Saudis more. Like Shia Fatimid Caliphs did about Sunni Abbasids Caliphs. Jews were enemies of my enemy, before Revolution Iran would be the only country to sell Oil to Israel, that's why Jewish State needed Eilat so badly. Sorry, you did not help me here

 

[Commodore]

Wait. Israel has nuclear weapon already (though they deny it). One feels animosity and then thinks about weapons, not the other way around. So why this crazy mutual hate? There are many regional powers: Saudis, Turkey, Russia, even Sunni Pakistan. According to Le Figaro, on 5 June 2010, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia told Hervé Morin, then Defense Minister of France that: "There are two countries in the world that do not deserve to exist: Iran and Israel." If I am a pragmatic Shia Iranian -- I would be worried about Saudis more. Like Shia Fatimid Caliphs did about Sunni Abbasids Caliphs. Jews were enemies of my enemy, before Revolution Iran would be the only country to sell Oil to Israel, that's why Jewish State needed Eilat so badly. Sorry, you did not help me here

Natan had it kind of right. I think it really does just boil down to the simple fact that they are two of the most powerful nations in the region and they are vying for the same sphere of influence, so a rivalry was bound to form between the two eventually.

 

[Tigranes]

Natan had it kind of right. I think it really does just boil down to the simple fact that they are two of the most powerful nations in the region and they are vying for the same sphere of influence, so a rivalry was bound to form between the two eventually.

No, he didn't. Weren't they also powerful before 1979? Saudi Arabia is 11th by Military Budget, Turkey 16th, Israel 21st, Iran 28th. Iranians do not have very high opinions about Arabs either. Simply every Revolution needs outside enemy, enemy of Iranian Revolution was Western influence, most directly -- America. But West is far, and Israel is the closest beacon of the West in the region. Iran can't directly hurt America, so Israel became a target. Iran's Supreme Leader Khamenei to "spell an end to the debates" on Israel stated in 2008: "It is incorrect, irrational, pointless and nonsensical to say that we are friends with the Israeli people... we are on a collision course with the occupiers of Palestine and the occupiers are the Zionist regime. This is the position of our regime, our revolution and our people."

Arabs see state of Israel as squatting on Arab lands. Iran is trying to be a champion of Islam and sees Israel squatting on Muslim Land, Dar-al Islam. In the minds of ayatollahs Israel is not a geopolitical issue, it's a religious issue. Secular Iran now can be as cooperative with Israel as it was under Shah, before 1979, when Israel was more aggressive compared with now.

 

[Commodore]

No, he didn't. Weren't they also powerful before 1979?.

Not really. Both Iran and Israel had other much more pressing concerns pre-1979. Before 1979 the Western-backed government in Iran was collapsing so they had internal concerns occupying their time. Even immediately after the revolution, the new government had to work on consolidating and legitimizing their hold over the nation. Israel was still facing near constant attacks from a Soviet-backed Arab League and Palestinian rebels so they didn't have time to worry about the Iranians. Now though, Israel has either made peace with or subdued their immediate neighbors and the Iranian regime has become quite stable and is able to begin exerting influence beyond its borders a bit, despite international resistance and sanctions against them. This has created a situation where the only real regional threat to the Israeli and Iranian governments are each other.

 

[Ajidica]

Not really. Both Iran and Israel had other much more pressing concerns pre-1979. Before 1979 the Western-backed government in Iran was collapsing so they had internal concerns occupying their time. Even immediately after the revolution, the new government had to work on consolidating and legitimizing their hold over the nation. Israel was still facing near constant attacks from a Soviet-backed Arab League and Palestinian rebels so they didn't have time to worry about the Iranians. Now though, Israel has either made peace with or subdued their immediate neighbors and the Iranian regime has become quite stable and is able to begin exerting influence beyond its borders a bit, despite international resistance and sanctions against them. This has created a situation where the only real regional threat to the Israeli and Iranian governments are each other.

Plus, in what could only have been an awkward situation all around, Israel assisted in shipping weapons to Iran during the Iran-Contra affair.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair

 

[Tigranes]

Not directly IS news but still:

The military chief of Syria's al-Nusra Front militant group has been killed in an air strike, the group has said.

The jihadist group said on social media that three other leaders were killed along with Abu Homam al-Shami.

Syria's state-run news agency said the army had targeted Nusra leaders as they met in northern Idlib province, the Associated Press reported.

The Nusra Front is one of the most powerful groups fighting to overthrow Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

It was involved in a major attack on the Air Force Intelligence headquarters in the embattled city of Aleppo on Wednesday.

The group has long been considered an affiliate of al-Qaeda, although recent reports suggest it may be seeking to break those ties. The US lists it as a terrorist group and it is under UN Security Council sanctions.

News of the latest attack came as the UN's envoy for Syria, Staffan de Mistura, hinted to the BBC that the UN might negotiate with al-Nusra to allow much-needed aid to enter Aleppo.

Al-Nusra named the three other leaders killed on Thursday as Abu Musab Falastini, Abu Omar Kurdi, and Abu Baraa Ansari.

Details of the attack are unclear. However, the official Syrian news agency described it as a "unique operation" carried out by the Syrian army in the al-Habit area.

 

[Natan35]

Natan had it kind of right. I think it really does just boil down to the simple fact that they are two of the most powerful nations in the region and they are vying for the same sphere of influence, so a rivalry was bound to form between the two eventually.

Its... its just so obvious. i mean, even the so called "leftist" Israeli press seems to fear Iran from that reason..
(Also, Bibi is a... well, Bad leader.)

 

[Tigranes]

Going back to IS, I can't help but notice that Israel is preoccupied with Iran to the point they don't talk against IS that much. And Islamic State was not worried much about Israel even during the recent Gaza war.

In response to questions that appeared on several Internet sites as to why the Islamic State wasn’t fighting Israel instead of killing Muslims in Iraq and Syria, the organization responded on its Twitter account: “We haven’t given orders to kill the Israelis and the Jews. The war against the nearer enemy, those who rebel against the faith, is more important. Allah commands us in the Koran to fight the hypocrites, because they are much more dangerous than those who are fundamentally heretics.” As proof, the organization cited the first caliph, Abu Bakr, who began by fighting those who rebelled against the faith, as well as Saladin, who fought the Shi’ites in Egypt before conquering Jerusalem.

So, we can sound the all-clear siren. The Islamic State’s target bank contains a long list of Arab leaders – including the Saudi and Jordanian kings, the prime minister of Iraq, the president of Egypt and even the leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood – before it gets to the Jews and Israel.

 

[r16]

as one would expect , it suddenly turns out ISIL had assigned a "Turkish" emir for the capture of Ayn-al-Arab , the place under siege for months . Not clear if A Turk or a Turkish national , considering ISIL propaganda had it that their militants were commanded by a Kurd . Anyhow he's spotted in an hospital in the West , and the Provincial Governor said he was "processed" by the authorities of the border province he entered the country . Not only we are to be proven of supporting , but also of commanding . Now that everything helps .

the troubles of ISIL seems assured enough for an US lawmaker to propose a NATO force to keep the Turkish borders . There wouldn't be the will if there was any risk of actual action , right . So that they can repeat the 1990s and look the other way as the seperatists make a presence on the border , just in the way they have liberated zones inside . The border with Syria being as flat as a tabletop and that supposedly creating issues with infiltration . Don't know how the smugglers are zipping across , but anyhow .

another Phantom crash . The opponents of the A-K-P declare it's because of the court cases , where Party-Congregation conspiracy made it a living hell and 900 pilots quit and the replacements are so green . The Party Media declares Israel did it . Eyewitness accounts suggest it was in a spin , no doubt due to loss of control during training against SAM launches . Dogfighting and missile evasion calls for extreme agility , an area the Phantom does not exactly shine and while you can avoid dogfighting with Sparrowage , evasion is still a problem . And when spinning in a Phantom , too much time onboard merely kills you . Unfortunate in the sense the crew were instructors themselves , possibly felt obligated to try a bit more . Naturally a fury of declarations . Seems the New Turkey now wants a new weapons contract ; they watched Holland red carpeting Sisi for the Rafale sales , right ? And of course they want to swim in the sea of bribes . As such yet another stinging moment in the history of New Turkey when this Professor lecturer of the Air Force school declares that the F-22 can be bought . Really ? The very thing the USAF had cancelled so that there would be a justification for the F-35 after the glorious events before 2009 ? People can not stop insulting the IQ of the Turks and stuff especially in the Turkish language but whatever ... Any Phantom squadron disbanded will not be re-opened , what's the use of THK anyhow ? Apart from supporting the Civil War in Syria , that's ...

 

[r16]

(Also, Bibi is a... well, Bad leader.)

failure of the troops of Idi Amin who shot his older brother .

 

[Tigranes]

as one would expect , it suddenly turns out ISIL had assigned a "Turkish" emir for the capture of Ayn-al-Arab.

Do you have a link about this?

 

[r16]

ı won't actually be doing the work of people who will prove all when the moment of destruction of Turkey comes . Until then , it's merely "What's keepin' ya?"

and it's the truth , considering Yoni Netanyahu was to be the brilliant soldier turned politician until some Ugandan guy in the bush sniped and shot the Israeli commander . Only because the airport lights were left open so that the rescued could clearly see who was rescuing them . RD threads actually do not ban the discussion of the thing that Idi Amin was a good friend of Israel .

 

[Borachio]

The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) group began bulldozing the ancient Assyrian city of Nimrud in Iraq on Thursday, the government said, in the jihadists' latest attack on the country's historical heritage.

ISIS "assaulted the historic city of Nimrud and bulldozed it with heavy vehicles," the tourism and antiquities ministry said on an official Facebook page.

An Iraqi antiquities official confirmed the news, saying the destruction began after noon prayers on Thursday and that trucks that may have been used to haul away artefacts had also been spotted at the site.

"Until now, we do not know to what extent it was destroyed," the official said on condition of anonymity.

Nimrud, which was founded in the 13th century BC, lies on the Tigris around 30 kilometres (18 miles) southeast of Mosul, Iraq's second city and the main hub of IS in the country.

The destruction at Nimrud, one of the jewels of the Assyrian era, came a week after the jihadist group released a video showing militants armed with sledgehammersand jackhammers smashing priceless ancient artefacts at the Mosul museum.

That attack sparked widespread consternation and alarm, with some archaeologists and heritage experts comparing it to the 2001 demolition of the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan by the Taliban.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/03/06/ISIS-bulldozed-ancient-Assyrian-city-of-Nimrud-Iraq-govt.html

 

[MacAttack]

Why? really what is the purpose? Do they really think these historical artifacts and ancient ruins will convert their following to something other than what they are trying to teach? If folks are not buying what youre selling, time to find a new line of work.

 

[Tahuti]

Not really. Both Iran and Israel had other much more pressing concerns pre-1979. Before 1979 the Western-backed government in Iran was collapsing so they had internal concerns occupying their time. Even immediately after the revolution, the new government had to work on consolidating and legitimizing their hold over the nation. Israel was still facing near constant attacks from a Soviet-backed Arab League and Palestinian rebels so they didn't have time to worry about the Iranians. Now though, Israel has either made peace with or subdued their immediate neighbors and the Iranian regime has become quite stable and is able to begin exerting influence beyond its borders a bit, despite international resistance and sanctions against them. This has created a situation where the only real regional threat to the Israeli and Iranian governments are each other.

You forgot the role of the United States in this. Israel is a US ally, while Iran is ideologically opposed to US influence (and probably will be less flexibly so compared with their relation to Israel). The Arab gulf states are other US allies. US influence thus prevents Iran and Israel from uniting against potential common Arab enemies, namely, the Gulf states.

From an Iranian perspective, directly opposing the Arab gulf states would currently be too risky. Though they are arguably Iran's immediate threat, and probably to the knowledge of the Iranians as well. Should the US flex its influence over the ME (and thus lose its Arab allies), Iran might relax its Anti-Zionist and Anti-Americanist stance and possibly even ally with the US and Israel against Arab countries. Iran already has the right leaders for it. Fortunately, bibi is slated to be slaughtered in the Israeli elections that are upcoming. Maybe IS will help accomplish a geopolitical shift against them.