IS

I do believe that the ultimate responsibility for war lies with the people declaring them rather than the people fighting them

I'm curious how you justify that. Without the Universal Soldier, how could anyone effectively declare war?


Link to video.

Still, maybe this sort of hippy nonsense is long past its sell-by date.

Isn't it strange? This sentiment has persisted in my mind for some reason. Call it a failing, if you like. I have numerous failings of various kinds, anyway.
 
Yes, if nobody were willing to fight wars - to the point of being prepared to die for their conscience rather than their country - then there could be no wars. However, that's not the case, and it's not likely to be the case as long as either of us are around: if any one person refuses to join the army, it doesn't have a noticeable impact on recruitment, and if anyone started a major anti-war campaign it wouldn't stop people from joining up or going along with it if conscripted. We decide, in a civilised society, that the military doesn't have a mind of its own; it does what it's told by the proper representatives of the people it protects. If you remove that - in other words, if you leave the choice of who to fight and when to the people doing the fighting - then you have the army as an unelected, unaccountable political actor, which is totally undemocratic. Yes, it's the soldier's job not to obey orders which are manifestly illegal and immoral, but that does not extent to the distinctly grey areas of just war in international law. It's not your head on the block if they get it wrong, as it were, so it's not your choice as to whether to carry it out or not.
 
It's not your head on the block if they get it wrong, as it were, so it's not your choice as to whether to carry it out or not.
Well, it literally is your head on the block (though the block is still a figurative one, I suppose), whether the decision is wrong or not.

This is the eternal irony to my mind: the people making the decision, in your terms, don't bear the responsibility for their decisions (or very seldom). The situation is really so heavily skewed against the combatant (on either side), risking his life or grievous injury, that I'm surprised anyone ever considers it as a profession.

And if no one did, what on earth could anyone else do about it? I do agree that this is highly unlikely ever to happen, though. At least, not very soon.

It's like the emperor's new clothes maybe. Once a sufficient number see that there's really no need to settle conflict by violent means, then perhaps the violent means will become out-dated.

Which would leave us with sport as a decent substitute (for those who can't help being competitive). Which is not only a lot safer, it also pays its players much better.
 
It's like the emperor's new clothes maybe. Once a sufficient number see that there's really no need to settle conflict by violent means, then perhaps the violent means will become out-dated.

I must disagree with this sentiment. It sounds good and I wish it were possible, but there will always be those out there who are willing to do absolutely anything necessary to achieve their ambitions. So what are we to do when we all abolish our militaries and destroy our stockpiles of weapons and someone comes along with an army of their own and starts wrecking things?

It is just a sad fact of humanity that there will always be people out there who wish to employ violence to gain dominion over their fellow man, and the only real way to guard against those people is to maintain your own force of people willing to employ violence to defend you.
 
That's a self-fulfilling prophecy, though. Once you believe that, you must always believe it.

It just goes to show the force of public opinion.

Is there NO hope for us?
 
Anyone knows the precise guilt of Kurds in the eyes of IS? They are fellow Sunni after all...
 
Anyone knows the precise guilt of Kurds in the eyes of IS? They are fellow Sunni after all...
I think most of the people ISIS are killing, raping and enslaving are Sunni Muslims.
 
The New York Times has published part of an analysis of ammunition used by ISIS in Syria and Iraq. The analysis was conducted by Conflict Armament Research, and found that a plurality of the cartridges came from China (26%) and the United States (19%, possibly 27%).

NY Times said:
These were typically 5.56-millimeter cartridges manufactured from 2005 to 2007 at the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Missouri.

NY Times said:
The sample also included 147 cartridges bearing the distinctive WOLF stamp used by Sporting Supplies International, an American company that sells Russian-manufactured ammunition under its own brand.

The company has provided bulk military ammunition to the United States government for distribution to security forces under its training, raising the possibility that an additional 8.5 percent of the ammunition documented in the Islamic State‘s possession was sent into the region by the United States.

There is also a large amount of Soviet ammunition from the 1970s and 1980s, and Serbia and Iran also appear to be sources of ISIS ammunition, albeit in tiny quantities.

NY Times said:
Conflict Armament Research’s investigators also found a small sample of cartridges from Iran in the Islamic State’s possession, including ammunition manufactured as recently as 2013.
 
Probably the fact they are secular and seem extremely unwilling to kowtow to ISIS's barbarian mindset.
Pretty much.

Anyone knows the precise guilt of Kurds in the eyes of IS? They are fellow Sunni after all...
ISIS' war can, at least to some degree, be seen as an old-fashioned war for land, resources, and strategic position, just like any other war. This from CNN, about an hour ago:

CNN said:
Turkish-Syrian border (CNN) -- ISIS fighters pounded the Syrian city of Kobani with tanks and heavy artillery Monday as the extremist group came closer to capturing the key city on the border with Turkey.

The fall of the city would carry huge symbolic and strategic weight, giving ISIS sway over an uninterrupted swatch of land between the Turkish border and its self-declared capital in Raqqa, Syria, 100 kilometers (62 miles) away.

From Wikipedia:

Wikipedia said:
According to Salih Muslim Muhammad, who hails from the city, Kobani began as a simple train station built in 1912 along the Konya-Baghdad Railway

Wikipedia said:
Most of the [Baghdad Railway] line is in a usable condition. Robinson's World Rail Atlas shows it as intact.

Most of the stations are still original.

The part between Toprakkale and Narlı in Turkey has been electrified for heavy ore transport.

The right-of-way of the railway marks the border between Syria and Turkey for over 350 km, from Çobanbey station in the West to Nusaybin in the east, with the rail line on the Turkish side squeezed between the minefields and control strip in Turkey and Syria.

On February 16, 2010, the link between Mosul in Iraq and Gaziantep in Turkey was reopened. The first train went from Mosul to Gaziantep, lasting 18 hours. On February 18, a return journey departed from Gaziantep to Mosul. This line has now closed once again.

Prior to the attack on Kobani, ISIS had captured a nearby bridge over the Euphrates. Together with the train station, they will have multiple routes across Syria and Iraq and will have secured their northern border. Turkey has made it clear that they will leave ISIS alone as long as they don't cross the border. Turkey isn't even allowing the United States to use their airbases for combat missions. If ISIS secures Kobani, they will have the railway station and the bridge over the Euphrates, and will have won one of their fronts, allowing them to reposition their forces South and East.
 
One Tomahawk will destroy that bridge.
 
I feel Turkey is being pretty shortsighted on this thing. ISIS isnt going to leave them alone for ever and even if ISIS falls you have allowed A LOT of radicalization to occur. Not to mention enraging the Kurds.
 
This war is unmistakably illegal.

Under international law—at least as defined by the UN Charter, to which the United States is a founding signatory—one country can only legally launch attacks inside another under one of three conditions: if the intervention is authorized by the UN Security Council; if it's a cut-and-dry case of self-defense; or if assistance is requested by the other country's government.

It's true that in Iraq at least, the government requested U.S. assistance in stemming the spread of IS—an intervention promoted in Washington as part of an effort to prevent the genocide of Iraqi religious minorities like the Yazidis (remember them?). Yet the United States has continued launching strikes on IS positions in Iraq long after the crisis on Mt. Sinjar was putatively resolved.

But in Syria, not a single one of these conditions applies.

In a letter to the United Nations explaining its strikes on Syria, the Obama administration claimed that it had the right to attack IS positions that the Syrian regime was "unable or unwilling" to eradicate itself. IS, the administration argues, has used its strategic depth in Syria—where no U.S. intervention has been formally invited by the still-sovereign Assad regime—to attack Iraq, which has requested U.S. assistance.

Here it almost seems like the U.S. and Iraqi governments are taking a page from IS itself and attempting to erase the Iraqi-Syrian border. It's true that IS is a big problem on both sides of the Iraqi-Syrian border, but the government of Iraq simply has no legal authority to direct a third country to attack Syria. (Imagine a hypothetical scenario in which Russia attacks the United States because Syria requested help in warding off foreign intervention in its territory. This won't happen, but it shows the inane implications of the administration's rationale.)

Additionally, any claims the White House makes about "self-defense" at this stage are spurious, since U.S. intelligence agencies have confirmed that IS presently poses no threat to the U.S. homeland. This makes sense—after all, who has time for international terrorism when you're also trying to conquer and govern new territory? No need to attack the "far enemy" when your objectives are achievable where you're already fighting. (Unless, of course, the far enemy suddenly starts bombing you.)

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/26641-here-s-everything-wrong-with-the-white-house-s-war-on-the-islamic-state?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TRUTHOUT+(t+r+u+t+h+o+u+t+%7C+News+Politics)#14126222865581&action=collapse_widget&id=1938901
 
Anyone knows the precise guilt of Kurds in the eyes of IS? They are fellow Sunni after all...

There is also a Kurdish denomination which is presented by mainstream Islam as being satan-worshipping. And it is directly in the realm Isis operates as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis

It is a misunderstanding though, cause the main yazidic deity is not actually called Satan, but Şeytan :yup: Which apparently is arabic for Satan, but whatever.

But it is a peacock angel, so..
 
Syria has actually been asking for international help on dealing with the terrorists for awhile now and seems pretty pro-US bombing the crap out of them. Honestly Syria's allies seem to be the ones offended whereas Syria itself is pretty giddy.
 
That's a self-fulfilling prophecy, though. Once you believe that, you must always believe it.

It just goes to show the force of public opinion.

Is there NO hope for us?

I wish to discuss this further, but so as not to derail this thread too much I will start a thread for this discussion.
 
Anyone knows the precise guilt of Kurds in the eyes of IS? They are fellow Sunni after all...

They are "hypocrites" in the eyes of IS. Look up hypocrite in the Koran to see what should be done to them.
 
I'm visiting Turkey and there were huge protests across the country. I was outside and thought I was standing far enough away but I got hit pretty hard by pepper has spray and managed to stumble into the hotel lobby where the staff helped me out. I was in really serious pain for about a good thirty minutes. Everything in the city is closed and for a long time there were people throwing explosives and rocks at the armored cars and at buildings and just breaking things.

The protests are about wanting Turkey to help the Kurds in Kobane and apparently the best way to do this is to riot and smash things.
 
^^Where in Turkey did this all happened?

In the meantime, while allied drones and jets may have struck their targets, the threat from the Islamic State group in and around Kobani remains. Ismet Sheikh Hassan, Kurdish defense chief for the region, said the strikes are only slowing the extremists’ onslaught.

"A terrible slaughter is coming. If they take the city, we should expect to have 5,000 dead within 24 or 36 hours," Kurdish intelligence official Rooz Bahjat told The Atlantic. He said the massacre would be worse than Islamic State group actions at Iraq’s Mount Sinjar, where fighters surrounded and threatened ethnic Yazidis. The incident helped bring U.S. forces directly into the fight against the Islamic State group in Iraq.
 
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