IS

Pangur Bán;13573358 said:
IS are psychopathic gangsters we created. Their theatrical life-imitating-art executions in the desert make good tv to scare and distract the plebs, but that's about it as far as Westerners are concerned.

I know people who have had family killed by IS and people who are fighting IS and it's not just media hype.

Pangur Bán;13573358 said:
I don't understand what point you're making. :/

You're saying America or the West in general is going to create another strongman to protect Israel and protect oil interests. Another one like who? Saddam? Assad? Qaddafi?
 
You're saying America or the West in general is going to create another strongman to protect Israel and protect oil interests. Another one like who? Saddam? Assad? Qaddafi?

Those three leaders weren't set up by the West, and if anything owed their positions to the USSR (whose indirect protection they eventually lost).

I know people who have had family killed by IS and people who are fighting IS and it's not just media hype.

We've created a stateless zone in the region, and in addition to us there are lots of other people committing violence there. As there are throughout the world. As a threat to the West they are laughable. The real risk they pose is allowing the West's rulers to use them to manufacture consent to make more wars, support more oppressive dictatorships, and at home to take away more liberties.
 
Pangur Bán;13573482 said:
Those three leaders weren't set up by the West, and if anything owed their positions to the USSR (whose indirect protection they eventually lost).

Right so I don't think your point about setting up another strongman there really makes sense.

Pangur Bán;13573482 said:
We've created a stateless zone in the region, and in addition to us there are lots of other people committing violence there. As there are throughout the world. As a threat to the West they are laughable. The real risk they pose is allowing the West's rulers to use them to manufacture consent to make more wars, support more oppressive dictatorships, and at home to take away more liberties.

Western countries can at least support that Kurdish parties in Iraq and Syria and the Iraqi government. Just doing nothing is worse.
 
Right so I don't think your point about setting up another strongman there really makes sense.
.

I don't understand what connection you've made. You seriously don't think this isn't going to end with a Western-backed dictatorship of some kind? I don't see otherwise how it could plausibly end.

Western countries can at least support that Kurdish parties in Iraq and Syria and the Iraqi government. Just doing nothing is worse.

It's Western clients in the Gulf who are funding them as part of their proxy war with Iran. Our leaders are playing games with you. They won't really mind lots of Kurds dying of course, but ISIS will be crushed whenever it actually becomes a threat to their interests.
 
Pangur Bán;13573554 said:
I don't understand what connection you've made. You seriously don't think this isn't going to end with a Western-backed dictatorship of some kind? I don't see otherwise how it could plausibly end.

I was responding to something you had posted which seemed to imply that the previous dictators were western clients.

Pangur Bán;13573554 said:
It's Western clients in the Gulf who are funding them as part of their proxy war with Iran. Our leaders are playing games with you. They won't really mind lots of Kurds dying of course, but ISIS will be crushed whenever it actually becomes a threat to their interests.

You sound like you watch Press TV.
 
it's possible ISIL will go through a name change next year ; after defeated by the gods of war , the glorious Kurds . But the structure will remain , considering Barack Hussein acts as if he will pass the thing to his replacement , possibly Bush III . The thing being the military destruction of a country with a name starting with a T .
 
US air strikes in Syria driving anti-Assad groups to support Isis

I already told this will happen here in this forum long time ago, if US interfere and start bombarding indiscriminately it will boost up IS recruit even cause the anti-Asad and anti-IS group to join IS with America and Asad as common enemy, and now it's really happen. The more they're interfere the more global Jihad becoming stronger and stronger.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2846023/Former-British-infantryman-joins-Kurdish-fighters-Syria-defending-beleaguered-town-against-ISIS.html

Two former British Army soldiers who have travelled to Syria to fight against Islamic State insist they are not mercenaries but involved in a war of ‘good against evil’.

James Hughes, 26, and Jamie Read, 24, are helping Kurdish peshmerga defend the embattled city of Kobani from the brutal terror group, whose ranks reportedly include 2,000 British Muslim recruits.

On the website of the security firm they founded, Mr Hughes and Mr Read said they were motivated by ‘conscience’, not money, to travel to the warzone ‘to assist innocent people in the face of terror from IS’.

Insisting they were volunteer fighters, not guns for hire, the ex-servicemen said they would ‘not do nothing while innocent men, women and children are tortured and murdered by Islamic State while the international community stands by and observes from the luxury of their boardrooms or their tanks on the hill’.
 
the tanks on the hills are dirt poor M-60s , them good Westerners do not need them engaged with ISIL , considering they would just melt down if them gods of war spit on them .

barack Hussein sacks White Wabbit . Smart move actually , ISIL is a fragile conconction of the West that runs on mucho mucho hot air and there are now reports that the SAS is averaging 8 Jihadists killed daily . And Washington can not much blame the L_meys with B-1s and stuff bombing the same daily . That relates to Shiny Uniforms of Barzani . Jihadi bunch recovers with any new shipment of Saudi US$ bills ; and the gods of war are like so over August 2014 , but still need an extra boost . Must feel they will be supported in the same way upnorth . As White Wabbit's replacement gets cleared through the halls of Heaven Congress and stuff , a breathing space will be offered .

as for the name , it's an invention of mine and it's so cool and ı can hardly expect to repeat the success and Chuck Hagel's replacement will be called Half-White Wabbit , whomever he/she might be and irregardless of any achievement . Don't let loose the gangstas of the US State Department on me , right ? Just don't talk nonsense ; just like White Wabbit did reportedly on his very first press conference . Going on how much he likes Atatürk . 2013 was a year Russians did not buck and did not blink and Americans suddenly discovered the New Turkey was all bragging and nothing else . Like some magician pulling the furry critter out of the hat , we had White Wabbit . Half-White Wabbit , never talk of respecting Turks or Atatürk or the old days . Never claim you like us or our habits or ways ; 'cause we know you don't .

and the 2017 thing immediately has an impact on Turkey , the ground shakes up and down and up . The Party cracks as the despotism of A-K-P starts to make a real irritation on the voters and the US needs the tyranny of the Congregation . The candidate to replace Eric Holder or whatever receives an award from the American HQ of the Congregation , but does not attend the ceremony . Oh yes, the tyranny since the Congregation people are fuming with people not scared of them anymore , their second coming will be probably even "funnier" than their glorious destruction of the country . Not that they would actually do anything against the priority American action , which once again revolves around slowly slowly catchee monkee of arranging even better conditions for nurturing the seperatists . They would average 3-4000 people on the ground in the bloody 1990s and slightly less bloody 2000s ; they now have 10 000 and laying the groundwork for 50 000 . Oh yes , we won't be able to copy Damascus , suddenly -now in 2017 or so- there will be all kinds of No Fly Zones . Any election defeat of the A-K-P would create doubts about the "Peace" Process , the Solution Solution . As such the tyranny will replace the despotism under the guise of a relief ... From the excesses .

was visible in the newspaper ı buy for the classifieds to find work . Now , the Congregation wants to build a thermal plant within 5 or 10 kilometers of my home , to burn 1200 tons of coal a day . Or at least the newspaper claims that organization is of Congregation . With a month or two of dangers to the environment and stuff . Suddenly an opposing newspaper carries the picture of the Mayor , talking for the construction ! Not against , even if a meeting arranged by his party ( of course , the A-K-P) had resulted in a poll of 95% opposition . This Monday the newspaper even talked good of the Congregation . And of course Monday was the day when the PM's men were sacked from their lofty positions . It's blindingly obvious , with Armenian chief advisor to the Little Imperialist on TV on Tuesday night . Sez the PM was the man in 2012 , the Little Imperalist will be the man after 2015 . The PM will supposedly be more able to act globally ; how real that will be can be judged by the promises of the group that now rules ; about how the PM would pray in the Umayyad Mosque of Damascus , praying the prayers of a conqueror . You might have heard that back in the days of good relations with Esad the PM visited a mosque in Damascus and saw the Syrian Military Museum next door and the exhibits and relics were crowding the gardens that might be required for the supposed attendance of a million people . The exhibits were removed ... For the glory of the New Turkey is so blindingly obvious ; Syrians were just playing for time .

the palace is really hurting the PM . He is the same person he always was ; it's just that he doesn't have the Media anymore and what's left of it can not act in the way they used to . When a journo can not tell his opposition live on TV that he might be arrested tomorrow , he ain't that effective anymore . And "Oh, dear!" moments follow each other . Some female journo apparently twitted that but for her and her husband the PM would have gone down in a coup and would be tried in the same way Santa Adnan was tried -and hanged . Her husband was even more glorious than her , his legacy for history will be how he called on the Police and the Intelligence Service and the Party to look for evil coup plotters in the Advertising business , because some manager refused to arrange a model for him for the night . People are always so ready to adjust -as long as they don't get to be sacrifised ; it must be that the female journo is banging her head on the wall for being like the staunchest PM man . Hoping for PM's support to keep her job as long as possible ; never minding like insulting the PM with suggestions that she kept him the PM . Makes sense in the sense the operator who toppled the PM's men is reported to be the expert who shames all experts and now chief economic advisor to PM . Reportedly for he wanted to be treated as the boss and the PM's men were too full of themselves . Makes sense if the journo couple also dismissed him somewhere along the road ; otherwise the expert who says Jews want to kill the PM with telekinesis is just the perfect guide for the PM to live in his fantasyland . In any case covers the American hand in this perfectly .

but then TV is not all about TV debates . ı think Kyriakos for one will be amused to hear yours truly now appears in that damned TV mini series as a surname as well ... ( Well , go back last week and see where the Chief baddie shuffles all the paperwork . )This time as a drug addict with so many empty stares because he was much abused by guards in Siberia while incarcerated by Russians . He's a bloody murderer , too , killing the "Jeune" this Monday . This country is so great that people try to run it with TV series ; which must be causing them Americans to bang their knees with anguish on the ease of running rings around people they have liked hated for half a century . And then gloriously the Chief Baddie attacked a "NATO Military Units" base in Turkey . Of 1500 personnel which like fell to a single technical , mounting a toy Browning the size of an air cooled .30 caliber . All hail CGI ... Lord Vader curses the day he went to the nearest dealer and bought 50 Toyotas . He should have perhaps questioned who were them Americans to say that he couldn't have 50 Willys or even 50 Bantams .

and TV series must be like working , too . With no more need for the jeune to live . See , he was captured by what must be the Barzanists for a year , killed at least dozen people per episode , got shot while helping the enemy of the state to save his wife and learned he had a daughter , an adorable little one , too . In real life , we learned the Turkish Army had already trained 230 or so shiny uniforms . We watch TV , we won't label the trainers as traitors because we saw one can change within days ... Bah , we are supposed to train 2000 people a year ; considering some 14 000 "fighters" have abandoned Halep , finding men should be real easy .

and of course this isn't my doing at all . The newspapers all report the THK jets in training accidentally went supersonic over the next neighbourhood , not mine .
 
Meanwhile, in a completely different and unrelated country, idiots decide that hunting windmills is the best way.

The Regional Prosecutor’s office in the Bulgarian town of Pazardzhik has laid criminal charges against Ahmed Musa Ahmed of taking part in a group involved in warmongering and imposition of an anti-democratic ideology, with more individuals also expected to face charges, after authorities raided dozens of addresses in an operation against alleged radical Islamists.

Ahmed, who denies wrongdoing, previously was handed a four-year prison sentence on similar charges. This sentence is currently on appeal in the Plovdiv Appeal Court.

He was one of 13 people charged after a raid by authorities in 2010 and arrests of several Muslims who allegedly who were advocating the overthrow of the Bulgarian state and its replacement by a theocracy based on Sharia law. The trial started in September 2012 and ended in March 2014 with Ahmed the only one sentenced to prison.

More

Woe to you, Western civilisation! Bulgaria will be nothing but the beach-head that will lead to your downfall. Seven brave eagles will be all that will take to create the perfect storm for your end.
 
ı hear one third or something of mosques in Bulgaria is supposed to be under Saudi Selefi control .
 
That certain mosque from where most of the "propaganda" was done, wasn't even part of the mufti.
 
well then . Hearing such stuff in Turkish TV certainly leads one to assume the Ankara has failed to take over the Turks in Bulgaria ; this must be fishing for Western help to stick in "Moderate" Islam ...
 
it's possible ISIL will go through a name change next year ; after defeated by the gods of war , the glorious Kurds . But the structure will remain , considering Barack Hussein acts as if he will pass the thing to his replacement , possibly Bush III . The thing being the military destruction of a country with a name starting with a T .

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are suggesting the US is going to attack Turkey. If so, that is a pretty odd assertion considering both are NATO members.
 
No. I think Mr r16 thinks (though I may well be mistaken) that Turkey is going to be engineered into fighting IS on behalf of NATO, by the US. Not an impossibility in my opinion, since it's the nearest NATO country.

Whether doing so would necessarily result in the destruction of Turkey is a debatable point.

Though perhaps he's referring to the breakup of Turkey following the successful establishment of a Kurdish state. It's not always very clear precisely what Mr r16's drift is at any given moment.

Anyway, something something something Star Fleet Commander! Shhh! Walls have ears. Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.
 
well then . Hearing such stuff in Turkish TV certainly leads one to assume the Ankara has failed to take over the Turks in Bulgaria ; this must be fishing for Western help to stick in "Moderate" Islam ...

To be fair, it's more likely that they're just using the imams to discredit the Movement for Freedoms and Rights (aka the party representing the Turks in Bulgaria. They're not very liked.) and Turks in general. It doesn't have to be some kind of an overwhelming conspiracy; sometimes the world is smaller than it seems.
 
No. I think Mr r16 thinks (though I may well be mistaken) that Turkey is going to be engineered into fighting IS on behalf of NATO, by the US. Not an impossibility in my opinion, since it's the nearest NATO country.

Whether doing so would necessarily result in the destruction of Turkey is a debatable point.

Though perhaps he's referring to the breakup of Turkey following the successful establishment of a Kurdish state. It's not always very clear precisely what Mr r16's drift is at any given moment.

Anyway, something something something Star Fleet Commander! Shhh! Walls have ears. Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.

That does make a little more sense. And if Turkey didn't want to get dragged into the West's military adventures, then maybe they should have withdrawn from NATO after the collapse of the Warsaw Pact. But I assume they stick with NATO to avoid giving Greece the advantage of powerful allies in any potential conflict (diplomatically or militarily) for Cyprus. I mean, as long as Turkey and Greece are NATO members neither one can really make a move for the island.
 
it's Admiral my dears . The Starfleet still pays respect to hard work even if sitting on some turbolazer turret and just watching the Earth , the bluest and the nicest orb ever , from orbit is just reason enough and an awesome one , too . In any case let's improve on that ...

the most flamboyant example of this "deferral to 2017" yet takes place in Yalova , Turkey . The state agency for Highways builds this road to the borders of the Municipality under Main Opposition control and threatens . If the CHP refuses to comply with the project it will be a deluge of Right Wing propaganda about how the Commies do not want this country develop and get rich . The catch ? The Municipality has to cut down some 180 trees , some of them big enough that you can barely cover half of the trunks with stretched arms . Oh yeah , CHP has to cut down trees ! Yalova is of course the place where Mustafa Kemal once had a farmhouse or something to rest and stuff and a tree was to be pruned because the branches would one day grow and break the windows and Kemal ordered moving the house sideways , 4 meters away from the tree . Probably it was some engineering exercise just to see how could it be done , but what the hell , Atatürk loved Nature and smarties insulted Atatürk everyday and were so scared to see the White Turks on the streets and White Turks refusing to budge and the PM was about to run to Qatar or Malaysia and Atatürk would never cut down trees to have a damned shopping mall . Period ... Yeah , the exact reason why ; considering the General Elections in 2015 . The Mayor at least had the "good sense" to be in Dagestan , Russia ; opening a park , some green zone with shrubs and trees named after Yalova . Yalova is of course the place where the A-K-P election fraud expertise was defeated in an almost nation-wide first ; the 150 votes that finally secured the mayorship for the CHP is certain to be blown away already . But then it's not particularly important . Yalova being merely a cover for the necessity of giving an Eastern town to a seperatist bigshot ; the poor guys there counted the vote 14 times and still couldn't fix it ; had to repeat the elections ...

america loves the A-K-P for sure . Must be the reason why am reading this newspaper that says new methodology will be used to calculate GNP and the rise in our wealth is supposed to be 10 to 20% . The talk that we have more Dollar billionaires than Japan must be justified . But since people are idiots and will be all like that they don't make 12 000 dollars a year such magick is required , so that nobody can challenge the system and stuff in the polls , hence Municipality workers at work as every single cell phone and stuff is recording , felling trees ...

a wonder for New Turkey to talk and talk on how the coup plotters and anarchists who rose up for a stinking couple of trees in 2013 were no where to be seen -to burn Yalova down in the name of defending Nature . Proves it was a conspiracy , the Gezi events / Taksim riots . Incredibly convenient for the Little Imperialist , too . He challenged the leader of the almost racist party to visit Tunceli and repeat his usual discourse on the 1937-8 Dersim events / troubles / rebellion / massacres / whatever . The Little Imperialist is far too experienced in foreign meddling , where proxies abroad are so ready to do your bidding at AK-47 point . The leader of the almost racists merely collected a convoy of 500 cars and went in . Nearly half of all Black coloured Mercedes Benzes in Turkey must have been accounted for in that convoy ; and the leader of the almost racists did call the people of Tunceli terrorists to their face . No big deal at all ; if one fifth of all policemen in Turkey belongs to the Congregation as the Party claims , two fifths are surely to be of the almost racist kind ... The last time the two locked horns , the Little Imperialist had the final honours as the Peshmerga kinda controlled Kerkük even back then and would not let the leader guy in . Never minding he , as the Turkish Foreign Minister , could not go to Baghdad at the time ... Leader ? He is quite reasonable , considering his precedessor officially used a Turkish equivalent of Führer .

or maybe it's a collusion of sorts , if the leader of the almost racists shines the PM can not reach out to Nationalist voters and gets deemed irrelevant in the Party , hence people turn out to the new leadership . ı don't know what the PM was thinking when he declared himself to be the Grandmaster of Politics .

it's on the streets that he doesn't feel comfortable in his palace , the 1000 room thing that kinda triples Topkapı with a mere 330 rooms or so . The Environmental stuff ridiculously slaps the Party right and left (*) ; it taxes all smarties to gloss over how some company gets insider info that Congregation courts will stop their glorious Thermal Plant project , nip their profits in the bud . So on the night before court declaration they raid the building site and bulldoze some 6000 olive trees down ; they also beat the villagers for good measure . Fait accomplie , fact on the ground , possession is nine tenths of the law . Not that the profit lies in building stuff , it's merely a land grab where the Goverment confiscates locations for them companies and pays with taxpayer money where applicable . Two or three years ago every company was building roads , last year or so everybody was into dams and hydroelectric power , this year everybody does thermal plants ; mining coal is just extra and sweet profit . Mind you oil prices are rocketing down and all those Natural Gas electric plants everybody was making 5 years back are like getting optimum in operation costs , but never mind ...

and of course supposedly some 65% of all electric consumption in Turkey is for steel production from scrap metal ; the proper way of mills naturally deemed so 20th Century and hindered in every possible way ; considering they are like impossible to make profit even when captured under the glorious leadership of the Party . And the destruction of North Marmara forests is the next big thing . They are doing a highway and an airport , in the usual Turkish fashion the area will immediately be filled with housing projects . And of course all the smarties bought the land cheap , starting from from 2008 ; Goverment confiscates land ? What a lie ! Last year they made a slight mistake , misread their maps or something and cut down 245 000 trees -in error . How many villa plots that would make ı wouldn't know . This year it seems they have misread the plans for the airport , they have to dig deeper and adjust the area to a lower height above sea level . That's supposedly an extra 2 Billion USD to be paid to the companies that carry the soil away ; at a single stroke of a pen . The said companies are said to have invested 300 million USD in trucks .

when they start with the canal , the amount of soil to be extracted and carried will finally reach a cool 100 times of the total effort for GAP , all those dams on the "Euprates and Tigris" that wrecked the economy with happy assistance in keeping the Inflation skyhigh , led Syria to conduct a proxy war in Turkey for 20 years for the dams could stop the water entirely , would have led to an open war with Saddam's Iraq who in glorious wisdom opted to attack Iran for experience , wrecking Iranian plans to ally with the Baathist Arabs to attack the puppet of the Zionists (aka Turkey ; Turks ruled Iran for like 9 centuries you know), led America to block the sale of Iranian F-14s to THK back in '79 for Humeyni knew we would be in war soon and America feared we would stick a lightweight phaser into the Tomcat as the thing , led people to believe GAP would yet be the salvation of the country with massively increased agricultural produce ; when ı was in school at the times when GAP was the thing , Turkey was one of the 7 countries self-sufficient in food supply and today it's not and in an easy 10 years they wrecked the soil in Harran with excessive water use and almost destroyed agriculture in an area that has supported life before the times of Prophet Abraham / Ibrahim Peygamber . And GAP kinda killed millions of people , for Saddam's pilots were so like "F-14, F-14! Yallah, yallah!" and could never press the advantage and the war that Saddam started for Saddam didn't want a second front while gloriously destroying us could never end .

and ever wondering what's connection of the rant and the all conquering all glorious ISIL and their sole opponents on the ground , the ever more glorious gods of war ? America wellcomes the construction boom , for people must be like buying them all those flats , leaving their villages and stuff in rural areas , for Anatolia is not big enough for a 'stan and a greater Armenia and the remnants of a totally raped Turkey and if our glorious conquerors are left to police their conquest we will be like fish in the sea and every single freaking villager will rather die then leading our conquerors to whichever cave we are hiding and Americans will have to put boots on the ground and you know all those spineless American civilians who will be howling mad at every single casket that comes from Crusade MXCVCCCCIII or whatever in Turkey . Istanbul is planned to have 30 million people , my stupid little town is supposed to double or triple in population and Bursa is supposed to hold 5 million . That alone makes half of the population when a 'stan is carved out of this country . Add Ankara and Izmir swelled in the same rate and all the Turks and Kurds who will be like policing them are all in . No Adana as the fifth largest city of the country ; Syrian Sunni brothers want it in addition to Gaziantep in return for the blood they have shed for the glory of the new Turkey and failed 'cause Turks are not men enough or something . Considering Mersin goes to 'stan as well that just leaves the Sevres Anatolia with Thrace and we haven't even factored in the almost racists who would naturally want revenge and couldn't dare and so merely would have to satisfy themselves with anybody except those America Close Air Supports from 20 000 feet up .

not that it is in discussion . 'Cause people then wouldn't move to big cities as if they were improving their lot . People think people must pay if they want to have some greenery , shrubs and trees and the businessmen of Istanbul have proposed buying the Yeşilköy Airport and turning into a park . A scheme where everyone in Istanbul pays 10 Turkish liras . Wait , a miscalculation in that , to get 15 Billion USD , people must be paying a 1000 USD each . "Sorry!" say the businessmen . Some people would have to pay more then . So that the goverment can actually finance the destruction / construction of North Marmara and America can finally get us all into ghettos and wait for the proper time for the Nihai Çözüm . In the age of Barack Hussein , the spineless jerk , are we really supposed to finance everything ? One misses Ike , am advised , for America back then was rich enough to threaten us with Doom on its own . Oh , good thing for the businessmen of Istanbul that even them Americans have no idea on what "3 and a half trillion for yet another Command Cruiser and not a 'ing cent" means or the businessmen of Istanbul would all get a rendition and a nice burial in the Atlantic -for the additional nail on Uncle Sam's coffin . Good for them that even them Americans have no clue on how the said command cruiser's weapon load is based on firing 80 proton torpedoes simultenously for an hour .

(*) Even if it's not meant to stop the works . They "discover" that there is this deposits of 5 million tons of poor grade Nickel on some mountaintop ; will have to cut a million or two of trees and since the quality is so low modern methods are not "rantabl" , meaning profits would be kinda low , they will use a reported a million tons of Sulphuric acid to get it out .
 
ISIS this week beheaded several Russian originating Muslims who came to fight with them, accusing them of acting as spies for the Russian government. The executioner of these Russian "spies" in this recent video to the world appears to have just been a kid. Apparently this recent video was partly made to show off their child soldier training they have started over the last month or two

Yazidis, Christians, and others who have escaped ISIS held areas via underground railroad-esique safehouses say brutal beheadings/civilian murders are still occurring even though coverage seems to have abated a bit
 
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