It wasn't only in Haditha...

[SunTzu]

Yes, if I recall correctly the Iraqi's and the world "begged" the US to go into Iraq.

The world wouldn't beg anyone to do anything. The world wouldn't stop a genocide even if it was happening in their own backyard.

The world media ,especially in europe, would love nothing more than to show the US military being killed and murdering innocent civilians. As far as i'm concerned those people were collateral damage in a combat zone. Until i see a video of the marines actually lining up and shooting the civilians execution style i won't buy into this.

Keep on kicking ass guys!

 

[shahreevar]

The world wouldn't beg anyone to do anything. The world wouldn't stop a genocide even if it was happening in their own backyard.

The world media ,especially in europe, would love nothing more than to show the US military being killed and murdering innocent civilians. As far as i'm concerned those people were collateral damage in a combat zone. Until i see a video of the marines actually lining up and shooting the civilians execution style i won't buy into this.

Keep on kicking ass guys!

well i guess the video shown on BBC, wasnt credible enough. collateral damage you say... no wonder people hate the US. pity, people who think like you are the real cause of terrorism.

 

[VoodooAce]

The world wouldn't beg anyone to do anything. The world wouldn't stop a genocide even if it was happening in their own backyard.

The world media ,especially in europe, would love nothing more than to show the US military being killed and murdering innocent civilians. As far as i'm concerned those people were collateral damage in a combat zone. Until i see a video of the marines actually lining up and shooting the civilians execution style i won't buy into this.

Keep on kicking ass guys!

Ugh. Collateral damage? I can just picture some idiot sitting around with Bin Laden talking about how the 3000 killed on 9/11 were just collateral damage. And some other idiot sitting there saying 'Keep on kicking ass, guys!'. These idiots would make as much sense as you do....and be deserving of the same respect.

 

[shahreevar]

Ugh. Collateral damage? I can just picture some idiot sitting around with Bin Laden talking about how the 3000 killed on 9/11 were just collateral damage. And some other idiot sitting there saying 'Keep on kicking ass, guys!'. These idiots would make as much sense as you do....and be deserving of the same respect.

lol, you said what was on my mind originally...

 

[RedWolf]

The world wouldn't beg anyone to do anything. The world wouldn't stop a genocide even if it was happening in their own backyard.

The world media ,especially in europe, would love nothing more than to show the US military being killed and murdering innocent civilians. As far as i'm concerned those people were collateral damage in a combat zone. Until i see a video of the marines actually lining up and shooting the civilians execution style i won't buy into this.

Keep on kicking ass guys!

Every once in a while I read a comment like yours that reminds me why I wish your country only ill will in Iraq.

 

[RedWolf]

The world wouldn't beg anyone to do anything. The world wouldn't stop a genocide even if it was happening in their own backyard.

The world media ,especially in europe, would love nothing more than to show the US military being killed and murdering innocent civilians. As far as i'm concerned those people were collateral damage in a combat zone. Until i see a video of the marines actually lining up and shooting the civilians execution style i won't buy into this.

Keep on kicking ass guys!

Have you ever thought about the irony of on one hand claiming to be against genocide and then on the other not really giving a damn about the civilian deaths you cause trying to stop it?

By the way.. have the Iraqi civilian deaths SINCE you invaded exceeded the number that would have been killed under Saddam yet?

 

[blackheart]

The world media ,especially in europe, would love nothing more than to show the US military being killed and murdering innocent civilians. As far as i'm concerned those people were collateral damage in a combat zone. Until i see a video of the marines actually lining up and shooting the civilians execution style i won't buy into this.

How the hell is a bullet shot into a child's head execution-style collateral damage?

 

[RedWolf]

The world media ,especially in europe, would love nothing more than to show the US military being killed and murdering innocent civilians. As far as i'm concerned those people were collateral damage in a combat zone.

Have you ever considered that maybe those people would have chosen to NOT be in a combat zone?

Unfortunately your government/military didn't give them that choice.

I'm always amused when Americans act so hard done by about the entire Iraq escapade... Your fury at the ungratefullness of the Iraq population as you so callously blow them away and label them collateral damage is particularly interesting. Almost makes one forget that YOU invaded them originally.

 

[malclave]

Every once in a while I read a comment like yours that reminds me why I wish your country only ill will in Iraq.

At least you're honest about hating the members of the U.S. military.

 

[amadeus]

I won't even pretend to act surprised.

 

[C~G]

The world wouldn't beg anyone to do anything. The world wouldn't stop a genocide even if it was happening in their own backyard.

I agree on that. World along with US is worthless in this sense.

The world media ,especially in europe, would love nothing more than to show the US military being killed and murdering innocent civilians. As far as i'm concerned those people were collateral damage in a combat zone. Until i see a video of the marines actually lining up and shooting the civilians execution style i won't buy into this.

Let me get this straight. So US intervenes for the goodness of their heart a genocide and as some soldiers end up killing civilians you would end up calling them "collateral damage"?
Lots of people in Europe aren't anything but concerned about both of the lives of the civilians of Iraq and also the lives of US soldiers. The certain parts of media tries to always find sensational headlines. But that doesn't mean with certainty there might be not any truth behind them.
But it seems whether there's truth or not behind the story doesn't mean a thing for you SunTzu or rmsharpe.
You both try to just sweep it under the rag. I'm very sorry if rest of the world doesn't stand with you on this.

Keep on kicking ass guys!

I'm not particularly impressed by your show boating around an issue that might involve killing innocent children.
I guess they are the only enemy some US soldiers can fight face to face without getting their own butts kicked into the next phase of reincarnation cycle.

 

[Azash]

Keep on kicking ass guys!

This is ridiculous. You condone murder?

 

[RedWolf]

At least you're honest about hating the members of the U.S. military.

It's interesting because you leave me little choice really. I certainly wish that the US military would get itself militarily thrown out of Iraq in defeat. I don't support your war of occupation.

Now we both know what this implies for the actual troops there - but how can I seperate the two? I'm not on your side in this conflict and don't claim to be. I'm not going to change my mind and decide your cause is just simply so I can "support the troops"... Every one of those soldiers ultimately chose to support and fight this war (even if indirectly). There is not a conscript in the bunch.

I don't personally HATE the people... but I hate what they're doing, I hate the mission they've chosen to obey and I hate "collateral damage" and the callous "too bad so sad it's a warzone" attitude towards it.

The Iraq populace had no say in this war unfortunately and it's them who are suffering the most as always.

Personally it would be great if NOBODY died in these types of conflicts... but if I had to choose person for person - My sympathy is with the Iraqi civilian. I'm sincerely sorry if that offends you.

 

[blackheart]

Personally it would be great if NOBODY died in these types of conflicts... but if I had to choose person for person - My sympathy is with the Iraqi civilian. I'm sincerely sorry if that offends you.

Then I suppose you would choose for those same Iraqi civilians to be under Saddam again?

 

[RedWolf]

Then I suppose you would choose for those same Iraqi civilians to be under Saddam again?

That question is irrelevant really. I'd choose for them to live in a democratic society created internally without outside foreign interference and reflecting their chosen values, beliefs etc. So yes - not under Saddam.

But this isn't magic land - what we created for them instead (and what many experts predicted) is a big pile of crap no better (in many cases worse) then what they previously had.

These kinds of fiascos can't possibly bring about the desired effect - particularly in that part of the world where people are proud and nationalistic. Throw in ethnic/religious strife and was the result really that hard to see coming?

We throw the word "freedom" around a lot. The average person wants safety - even more then so called "freedom". Just look at how willingly the populations of western democracies have been willing to throw away their fundamental freedoms in the quest for "protection from terrorism".. I don't agree with that - BUT the lack of national outrage over wire taps, secret trials, indefinite imprisonments, and export for torture seems to indicate which of the two the masses chose.

Why would I believe the Iraqis are any different? People now who probably would have never been killed by Saddam can't risk walking to the market without fearing a car bomb, kidnapping, getting caught in the middle of a military shootout etc.

Again - not saying Saddam was BETTER... just that change comes from within and I don't think military occupation was the way to "save them". It obviously hasn't worked.

And on top of that - the people most in support of this war are the ones that claim to believe in "Iraqi freedom" etc... Yet then they're the same people that seem to care the LEAST about collateral Damage, Abu Graib and US perpertrated massacres.

 

[VoodooAce]

I won't even pretend to act surprised.

What about Sun Tzu's comment? Surprised? Disgusted? Agree?

 

[amadeus]

About RedWolf's comment about wishing the U.S. harm in Iraq.

That's normally the kind of thing I'd expect to get upset about, but I know him all too well to even care. He'd wish us harm even if we weren't there.

 

[VoodooAce]

About RedWolf's comment about wishing the U.S. harm in Iraq.

That's normally the kind of thing I'd expect to get upset about, but I know him all too well to even care. He'd wish us harm even if we weren't there.

I knew that's what you were referring to. But that's not what I asked. Sorry if I put you in a tough spot.

 

[blackheart]

That question is irrelevant really. I'd choose for them to live in a democratic society created internally without outside foreign interference and reflecting their chosen values, beliefs etc. So yes - not under Saddam.

Again - not saying Saddam was BETTER... just that change comes from within and I don't think military occupation was the way to "save them". It obviously hasn't worked.

So for all your lip service about a better life for the Iraqis, yet you propose that we shouldn't have done anything to remove their main cause of oppression.

We throw the word "freedom" around a lot. The average person wants safety - even more then so called "freedom". Just look at how willingly the populations of western democracies have been willing to throw away their fundamental freedoms in the quest for "protection from terrorism".. I don't agree with that - BUT the lack of national outrage over wire taps, secret trials, indefinite imprisonments, and export for torture seems to indicate which of the two the masses chose.

Why would I believe the Iraqis are any different? People now who probably would have never been killed by Saddam can't risk walking to the market without fearing a car bomb, kidnapping, getting caught in the middle of a military shootout etc.

That's purely speculative, considering that the average Iraqi probably lived in fear from Saddam's secret police and his son's wanton carnage.

And on top of that - the people most in support of this war are the ones that claim to believe in "Iraqi freedom" etc... Yet then they're the same people that seem to care the LEAST about collateral Damage, Abu Graib and US perpertrated massacres.

Well if you prefer to stereotype an entire group of certain people by the words of a few, that's your own choice. But I supported the initial invasion, believe in freedom for the Iraqis, and am pretty pissed about the massacres and Abu Ghraib.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Again - not saying Saddam was BETTER... just that change comes from within and I don't think military occupation was the way to "save them". It obviously hasn't worked.

And on top of that - the people most in support of this war are the ones that claim to believe in "Iraqi freedom" etc... Yet then they're the same people that seem to care the LEAST about collateral Damage, Abu Graib and US perpertrated massacres.

Sometimes change cannot come from within alone. The Iraqis tried that in '91 expecting US help and were slaughtered by the 100K's. Definately something I'm still very disappointed in my gov't for allowing to happen. We ignored Rwanda for too long and genocide occured, but by your logic it was better to just let that happen; I think we should have tried to save them. While Europe's collective democracies twiddled their thumbs, Clinton finally took action in Bosnia and surrounding areas. Things aren't ideal, but at least they aren't committing genocide now. I'm glad we tried to save them.

And your second statement is wrong. There are a few that don't get it, but most of those who supported war from the beginning are the MOST concerned about collateral damage and the crimes committed by some military members. When some idiot commits a crime that causes significant strife with the local population it greatly increases the chance one of my friends will be killed as the population is against us instead of being with us; and these acts are completely opposed to our democratic ideals.